Group survival vs loner

[ChiliPalmer]

Lay it out, folks, all your pros and cons to which method offers the most security and best chances in a truly done-gone scenario.

I'll start this off by getting the obvious out of the way.

Groups have enough people to maintain 24/7 guard watches and patrol a perimeter.

Loners will never be bushwacked by someone they brought in to help.

[ddearinger]

man i have really went over this one.... i really believe as the i have studied alot and learned alot in the usmc on small unit tactics and gueralla warfare...that the best size is 3-6 person group who you have pre chosen and trained, lived, loved , laughed etc with. you absolutely cannot do it alone. you may get by for some time but eventually you will run out of gas and let your guard down. you know the rest of the story. imho

dd

[Summerthyme]

The only thing I can say about this is if you have "a group", you'd better darn well know them well.

Because after a few weeks or months fairly isolated, where your literal lives and well being depends on being able to trust each other, every little "issue" will be known... and some may turn out to be "deal breakers".

Anyone who you normally would describe as "he's a great guy, but..." (you fill in the blank- he likes his beer a little too much, he's a neatnik/slob, he sure can watch everyone else work, he thinks picking on other's flaws or problems is funny... ) will very possibly be a weak link you'll live (or not) to regret.

Family- IF you normally get along- is probably going to be the best base group you can have. If your family is the type where by the end of the holidays, you're more than thankful that you've got another 11 months before you have to see any of them again.... well, you might well be better off alone.

Think twice- and then again- about people who currently have laughed at your worries or preps. I've come to the conclusion that "preppers" and "pollies" actually have very different brains. Can you trust someone who was able to ignore the every worsening economy and societal situation to stand guard? Or will they apply their "well, nothing bad happened yet" philosophy to that, and nap while intruders break through?

Physical abilities don't worry me quite as much... there are plenty of jobs on the homestead which don't require great strength or stamina... all sorts of kitchen preps, "standing guard" (can be done sitting down, as long as you have some form of communications setup), watching kids, even weeding the garden can be done sitting in the dirt and moving slowly along the row. However, laziness is another story... someone who is perfectly content to watch others work is going to get a lot of resentment built up, very fast.

And if any of your potential group have children, be very sure you have similar child raising philosophy- whether you have kids or not! You may be fully agreeable with the idea of "the parents of the kids have the full responsibility for discipline"... but if their idea of "discipline" is letting the kids do whatever they want- including raiding the pantry, eating whenever and whatever they feel like, and ignoring vital orders... it's going to get ugly. In a slightly different vein, if the parents are martinets, and constantly picking at the kids, yelling, insisting they act like small adults... your gut will probably be tied up in knots listening to it.

Remember the stress levels are likely to be extreme. Anything which makes them worse won't improve your ability to survive.

Summerthyme

[dreadstalker]

If you lone wolf it, and yes it is possible , the idea of squad tactics goes out the window.
A lone wolf is pretty much strictly a hit and git operation.

Think back to many of the wests mountain men. That will be your best example. Except that you won't be trpping for furs. Scalps though would be optional.

[north runner]

Alliances of convenience - specific objectives. :)

For pay of course. Nothing one becomes so emotionally attached to that reason flys out the window.

[Caplock50]

I've always been a 'lone wolf'. The situation won't change me...I'll still be a lone wolf. What I plan on doing is being just outside the community's 'circle'. I'll be able to 'help' them by being 'the canary in the coal mine'. I'll still have my 'privacy', and will be able to benefit from their large numbers(trade and such). And they'll benefit from my presence because any intruders will have to deal with me before they can get to them...which means they'll be forewarned. Sort of like the serfs living way outside the castle, ya know.

Actually, I can see a need for both kinds of folks. While the 'community is planting and raising crops and manufactoring things...the lone wolf can supply the meat, furs and collect intel on the surrounding areas. A 'Symbotic relationship' as it were. Neither is really 'better than the other'...just different, is all.

[Little RedRidingHood]

That is exactly the way it will go down here also!

[north runner]

There won't be any symbiotic relationship in my calculation. The local community can't be trusted any further than you can throw them. In so time flat they'll have slaves hauling wagons by hand and tending fields. A commie committee will most likely be formed and then a call for volunteers to enslave the others who won't cooperate. Or worse fema & the local fascists will try to disarm you. Your options will be:

a. Bug out
b. hide in plain sight while pretending to cooperate.
c. form a resistance movement
d. sabotage
e. eliminate the enemy

The other plan is simply to let things take care of themselves. After the first winter the center won't hold and infighting will develop. Then wear and tear weeds out the more aggressive and hopefully the survivors agree to voluntary association without taxes, and arbitrary rules and regulations from above controlling everybody :)

[Caplock50]

North Runner, that might describe your location...but not mine. Now, I do agree that a more pure form of 'communism' will form..."From each according to their abilities; to each according to their needs" *is* the purest form of communism, ya know. If you're young and healthy and not 'producing; why should the others put up with you? "If you're not part of the solution; you're part of the problem...and the solution is surviving; the problem is TSHTF calamity that has hit. I, in my 'lone wolf' life-style, will be practicing a very simple form of communism. If I can't get or do what I need to to survive, I'll be 'cast out' of my 'group'...literally executed for the 'crime' of not producing enough for my 'group'. Do you see? Do you understand?

[Freeholder]

North Runner, that doesn't describe my area, either. I think one of two things are going on here (and maybe both):

1. The people in our areas really are different, which may be the case because the folks who moved West had totally different mind-sets than those who stayed in the East (I've lived in New England as well as in the far West, and have definitely noticed a difference in people's attitudes).

2. The difference is in the eyes of the beholder -- we see others much as we ourselves actually are. Remember the little story about the old man in some Middle Eastern country (in ancient times) who sat out by the city gate? A traveler comes by, and asks the old man what kind of people live in the city, and the old man asks what kind of people lived where the traveler came from? And of course, the people in the city were the same as where the traveler came from, because we tend to have the same attitude towards the people around us even if we move.

Kathleen

[north runner]

Objectively, I already live under a committee system that would appall you. I've developed defensive mechanisms to deal with it. The assumption that I would care if these people survive is incredible. They neither spin nor weave themselves but they can decide what I should do with my property and labor in a microsecond. This makes them criminals even before tshtf. There is no reason to believe they would act any differently afterwards. I have no doubt in my mind, I would be "cast out" by this group. Therefore I'm definitely in the Lone Wolf but looking for a good pack category. The western u.s. may be different than the east. More self reliant independent people but a major breakdown in the u.s is coming as we all agree. It certainly may make the east coast a killing ground unlike anything we've experienced since the 1st civil war.

[SimonJ]

North Runner,
Are these people family? If so, you have my prayers. If not, shoot first. From the dark with a suppressor. Or use a very sharp knife.

[scruffy]

a group always makes it easier, if the group gets along, mainly family ,close friends, especially when you get older, I cannot do my firewood like I used to , I get family over on a sunday, in the fall, and we can get the whole pile done in the day(this actually my wood for the next yr) that takes me over a month by myself, along with other things getting ready for winter,

but there is alot of the type that northrunner speaks of all over, even in the midwest, we have those that try to dictate how things will go, even if they dont own the land,not family ect,I agree with your last sentence ,these types will not last long, and remember if these people are so nasty during normal times, what will they do to you /family when things are really bad

[Bad Hand]

I lived for 2 years in a tipi hunting, trapping, fishing and gathering for our food. This was in the Colorado Rockies at an elevation of 8,500 ft. Then we lived in the same area care taking a primitive hunting lodge no electricity, or phone and we were snowed in from Nov. 15 until the last week of May. We were not paid so all of our income and food came from the trap lines and hunting.

What I learned was the difference between just surviving and living was a good woman. Sue took care of the cabin, cooked the meals and fleshed and stretched the furs. This gave me more time or the trap lines or hunting. A warm cabin and a hot meal after a long day on the trap line with temps dropping as low as -62 makes all the difference in the world.

[Bad Hand]

As for a group the only one I would want to be with are my fellow instructors from Rabbit Stick and Winter Count.