horses

[medicinescout]

I am looking at buying a 19 yrs old quarter horse for bug out transportation. Does anyone have experience with horses for long term wilderness use? I have been taking riding lessons on this same horse that I may buy. The horse is good for trail riding but can be stuburn at times.

[lynx]

Have you gone trail riding on this horse without other horses around? Horses DON'T like to leave their herd, and if he's stubborn now, he will almost certainly balk when you are ready to ride off into the sunset without his companions at his side. Are you familiar with the area you would be bugging out to? Is it terrain that a horse can easily manage? Will you be going alone or with others on horseback? How much stuff are you planning to carry, and how? If you are planning on having the horse carry you and your supplies too, have you tried riding him under these conditions? How far? A 19 year old horse is getting on up there in years, and may not have the stamina of a younger mount. Be realistic in your expectations.

[Summerthyme]

Have you gone trail riding on this horse without other horses around? Horses DON'T like to leave their herd, and if he's stubborn now, he will almost certainly balk when you are ready to ride off into the sunset without his companions at his side. Are you familiar with the area you would be bugging out to? Is it terrain that a horse can easily manage? Will you be going alone or with others on horseback? How much stuff are you planning to carry, and how? If you are planning on having the horse carry you and your supplies too, have you tried riding him under these conditions? How far? A 19 year old horse is getting on up there in years, and may not have the stamina of a younger mount. Be realistic in your expectations.


Those are good questions. I'm currently nursing along a 25 year old Arabian gelding, who I've owned (and has had excellent, natural care for 24 years), because his teeth simply don't allow him to chew and digest much anymore. It's sad, because he's still perfectly sound and thinks he's a three year old.

Maybe my bigger questions (aside from how well the horse handles on trails, etc.. including "can he be hobbled or picketed all night") is: what's his normal feeding routine, and how are his feet? Horses are fantastic creatures, but these days we have a lot more "city horses" than "country horses"... very much like people. City horses can be great- and useful- with our current infrastructure. That includes regular foot trims and/or shoeing, regular worming, and *lots of grain* fed. Take that same "great" horse, turn him loose in a pasture, feed little or no grain (because it's expensive and needed for humans, or for the hard working draft horses who are helping grow more grain) and limit the foot care to regular cleaning and trims... an awful lot of them are going to be thin, lame and useless.

It's not inevitable, though. So, pick your mount for bugging out or TSHTF *carefully*. That same Arabian gelding has never had a set of shoes. When he was about 12, I got to feeling guilty because he hadn't been seen by a farrier in so damned long. So I rode him up to my nearest Amish blacksmith for a trim. The guy managed to trim off about 1/2", max... from his perfectly shaped feet. He asked WHY I'd brought him. I said "because the last time he was trimmed was when he was FIVE. Seven years...

The blacksmith said "well, he shouldn't need it again". He was right. I've had him worked on once, when he picked up a piece of gravel and got a nasty abcess.

He wasn't the easiest keeper in the world, but as long as I wasn't doing endurance training or we didn't have really poor hay, he didn't require much grain. My Haflinger mare has the opposite problem- she can get hog fat on a few bites of grass and some poor hay. She only gets a good vitamin/mineral/biotin supplement, because she unfortunately does NOT have the Arab's hooves. If we end up using her for a lot more field work, the weight won't be a problem... but we'll have to hope someone has the ability to make shoes.

There are a LOT of horses out there right now, many at unbelievably low prices. Don't fall in love until you find the right one.

Summerthyme

[Freeholder]

Medicinescout, I totally agree with all that's been said so far. I don't know where you are, but a lot of 'wilderness' doesn't have sufficient feed for most domestic horses. If I was considering horses for bug-out transportation or packing, I'd be looking at mustangs, not domestic horses. There are a lot of well-trained and gentled mustangs out there nowadays, since BLM's adoption program has been going for probably thirty years by now or close to it. Why don't you look for one of those? Even if it's been 'domestic' for a few years, as long as it was born wild (some of them are born in the holding pens and have never run loose) it should remember how to find feed out there.

This is one of the reasons I prefer goats, though. They are much easier to feed out in the bush than horses are -- they are browsers, like deer, and will even eat lichens off the rocks if you get way up into the mountains where nothing else grows. They can also go up to three days between drinks of water -- horses need water every day, preferably twice a day. And if you have a couple of milking does along, they'll provide food for you even where you can't find much else to eat.

Kathleen

[momof23goats]

these gals are telling you true .i own 4 Haflinger's, and one city horse. 1/2 TN walker, and 1/2 quarter horse. has ankle problems, and has to have his grain, or he gets thin. Now my halflinger, are fat and sassy just on pasture, and they do well. I haven't had their feet trimmed, in about 5 years. there is nothing to trim. they run in the pastures over rocks, down into the meadows, and woods. i could bug out with them. and take a few of my goats as packs. it would work.
or even my cart. but you can't ride out, with just a bed roll, won't work. your going to have to have other horse donkeys mules ,or something to carry your stuff.
Riding out is fine. but you can't ride the same mount day in an day out, you have to rest your horses. and a 19 year old horse, isn't going to carry you daily, for 8 to 10 hours or longer a day, and your stuff, even if it is a back back, and a bed roll ,and live to long. that is why I have 4 halflingers, 2 teams. and one city saddle horse, that belongs to my son. we would just turn him loose, or put him down, he would be of no use on the trail , none.weak ankles on a horse, are no good, and he is prone, to getting an abcess, in his hoof, everytime he picks up a stone, so has to be checked daily.
OH he is pretty, fine looking ,but useless, on the move.
I can take my 2 teams, and pull a cart, and have my goats as pack goats, and take 2 milkers, and do really well, and take every thing I need. but up here in the north, it would be sucide to leave out on horse back, with our winters, one would die, or most of the animals would.

[just me]

I have to agree with everything that has been written so far.

We have a pair of drafts that we keep for friends that are "city" horses. The gelding is finally eating grass (after 2 years on pasture).

If you want a horse with stamina, get something that is part Arabian. Perhaps mixed with a heavier breed for size. An Arabian will go all day and keep going (they put the Energizer bunny to shame). They can carry heavy packs, but due to their light frame, I would not recommend it for long hauls. We have carried calves on our Arabians, so I know they can carry a 200lb man and 100 lb calf with no problem.

Again look at the feet, that is the basis of any horse.

For what you are wanting, I would look for a younger horse. A tough life will shorten a horse's life, just like it does to a person. While my daughter's last barrel horse raced and won into her late 20's, she was pampered and very well cared for and died in her early 30's.

You may want to look for a ranch horse, most have been raised on pasture, are used to hard work and can go any where. There are some Arabs and Arab mix ranch horse if you look for them.

[GingerN]

I would agree that a 19 yr old would be alittle further down my list, unless he was dead broke and in excellent health. That being said, I have an 18 yr TWH and a 16 yr old QH that if TSHTF and horses are required, my 2 youngest girls will ride them with my sister's grandbabies (ages 2 and 8 months). Why? They are sound, sturdy, and as trustworthy as any horse out there, and would take care of their little charges. Sounds stupid, I know, but come meet the boys and make your own judgement.

I have given this some thought, though. There are 7 of us in my family that I would have to prep for in this situation-and maybe 5 others (2 are under 3). That being said, I would love love love to have enough horses for all of them and us too to bug out with. My choices? Just what I have now except younger. Walking/Racking horses have smooth ground covering gaits, and are normally pretty level headed. QH-the old style foundation type like I have now- are just good all around mounts, and can do whatever job you ask them from riding, to pulling a plow/wagon, to hauling stuff behind them. My daddy had a AQHA stud that he did it all with. My 16 yr old is that way too. He is no nonsense. I would also like to have a pair of good mid size mules or cob style ponies for pack purposes.

As for the Arabs-that is a mixed bag. If you are an experienced rider, they are a lot of fun. The ones I have had dealings with (8-10) have all had some quirks that have turned me off Arabs & Arab/crosses. NOT ALL ARE BAD, this is just MHO, they are flighty, spooky, and highstrung. They are AWESOME at endurance. HOWEVER, since most are finer boned, they don't have as much ability to carry heavier riders as a coarser boned horse.

I don't know much about Haffies, but all I have heard is good stuff, and looking at them, I would not turn my nose up at one. They are short, but they ain't little.

[medicinescout]

My friend who is going with us on horseback found me a 9 yrs old mustang that I am buying this weekend. The mustang has never been shoed which is a huge plus. This horse should work with me just fine. As for gear load I am a survival instructor so I am relying on my skills more than gear. I am just taking wool and buckskin clothing and a few small tools.

[Freeholder]

That sounds like a good choice. A nine-year-old is pretty much in the prime of life. Is it well-trained? We'd love to see pictures!

Kathleen

[momof23goats]

yes, i agree with Kathleen, this is a wise choice. If the horse is well trained, your in good. really good . hopefully you will have time to work with the horse. ride it, and spend as much time with this new horse as you can. and never having been shoed is a huge plus. Mine have never been shoed either. also might want to ride this horse, and take it through creeks, and see how he does with water. I have seen many a so called good horse, buck at water. this of course would not be a plus at all.
And depending on your weather, will he do well going through snow? all things to think of. can he climb, if in mountains, one has to ask all of these hard questions. and check them out. a horse that is skiddish, no matter what the age, will not be of any good in a life or death run.

[Freeholder]

Mom, without ever having seen the horse, I can answer most of your questions with near 100% certainty IF the horse was born wild, and not in the holding pens!

Yes, he (she?) will go through water, no problem. Wild horses deal with water hazards as a matter of course (even though most of the wild herds live in dry country, there are still streams, ponds, and marshes that they encounter, at least seasonally).

Same with snow -- we may be dry out here where most of the wild herds are, but we do get snow in the winter, and some areas get a lot of snow. He should know how to dig through snow to find feed.

Climbing in the mountains -- back when we had our mustangs, we had friends who also had them. They took their mare on a trail ride up in the mountains with some other people who didn't have mustangs. Now, Lady was obviously part draft, not real tall, but a stout horse with some feathering on her legs. The folks with the domestic horses -- quarter horses and appaloosas mostly -- sneered a little at fat, sturdy, homely Lady. But by the time they'd made it to the top of their climb, they were treating her with a little more respect. She was out in front, and wasn't even sweating, while their horses were all huffing and puffing -- and her rider was no light-weight, either.

As for the skittish issue, the only skittish mustang I've met was a Cremello with blue eyes -- something about his vision made him spook at things like hats being waved, or white fence posts (in an arena). But other than the vision issue, he was actually the gentlest of all the mustangs I've known. Most of them, by the time they are trained and used to being around people, are extremely calm, sensible, and level-headed.

In addition, mustangs tend to be very sound, and extremely easy keepers. All of these qualities make them ideal, IMO, for 'bug-out' transportation or for living in the wilds.

Kathleen

[RevDoc]

My friend who is going with us on horseback found me a 9 yrs old mustang that I am buying this weekend.....

I used to make a very good living selling horses to people as excited as you.

Try any animal out for 30 days.

Always.

Every time.

Even experts get fooled. Regularly.

In a survival/minimalist camping situation, nothing beats a donkey.

Loyal, smart, live off any kind of vegetation, water like a camel, climb anywhere you can, swim better than you can, great watchdog, no need for shoes, and down right tasty if events go against you, and, they're cheap.

Sorry if this post sounds authoritarian, but this is something I flat out know.
(Do you hear my foot tapping? This information might be on the test.)

[Homesteader1]

I used to make a very good living selling horses to people as excited as you.

Try any animal out for 30 days.

Always.

Every time.

Even experts get fooled. Regularly.

In a survival/minimalist camping situation, nothing beats a donkey.

Loyal, smart, live off any kind of vegetation, water like a camel, climb anywhere you can, swim better than you can, great watchdog, no need for shoes, and down right tasty if events go against you, and, they're cheap.

Sorry if this post sounds authoritarian, but this is something I flat out know.
(Do you hear my foot tapping? This information might be on the test.)



A big AMEN to what you said RD! A horse trader of any kind always has a bag of tricks to make any horse seem well trained, behaved and whatnot. Some friends of ours even ran into this with a horse trader when buying a dairy cow from him. She was tame and mild mannered when they looked at her but.... when they got her home for a week or so she was wild and very aggressive, even killed her newborn calf. My suspicions were that she was either drugged or bled down. Anyway just be sure to try the horse out for awhile first.

[medicinescout]

The horse is in great shape. They want to get rid of her because it is too high strung for their daughter. It is an adult only type horse unless the child is very well trained in horsmanship. They only want $600 for her.

[Summerthyme]

medicinescout... have YOU ridden this horse? Seriously, listen to what RevDoc said. Horses are a dime a dozen right now. I'm in a group which is attempting to save some which are likely to starve this winter... and they just GAVE AWAY an Icelandic mare who sold for $8k (yes, eight THOUSAND bucks) 4 years ago. Absolutely nothing wrong with her... owner couldn't afford to feed her, and couldn't find a buyer at any price. (and I am sick that I missed her... I'm looking for a small horse to replace my "once in a lifetime" large 1/2 Arab pony who I rode for 27 years, and who died at 30 a couple years back)

"Only $600" may be a bargain, or may stick you with a horse which you can't resell for love or money.

See if you can arrange a short term lease (a ride to try type thing) and get her out on the trails and see if she's right for YOU. In many ways, that's the only thing that counts... I've had horses which were absolutely fabulous for me, but which would have been a disaster for others. And now that I'm getting older and have some health issues (as my orthopedic surgeon said "you're as healthy as a 20 year old, but you're an orthopedic disaster area!" LOL!), I can't ride some of the ones I'd have loved 30 years ago.

These days (thanks to the bleeding heart libiots who got horse slaughter banned in this country) the horse market is VERY glutted. Unless you can afford to keep one which doesn't fit you well, make sure you get the right one from the start.

Summerthyme (And get her vet checked!! NO exceptions... surprises are nasty and can be very expensive)

[goatlady]

MS, your opening post clearly stated you were taking lessons! A horse that needs an experience adult rider may be a bit much for you to be comfortable with right now. Don't be is soo much of a rush, guy. Horses are a long term investment. Arabs and Mustangs are considered "hot blooded" - LOTS of get up and go and spirit, that's their nature. Mules and donkeys are NOT as glamorous, but most times do the job you want far better than a horse. A good riding/packing mule beats a horse most any day in the smarts and safety departments.

[Freeholder]

MS, your opening post clearly stated you were taking lessons! A horse that needs an experience adult rider may be a bit much for you to be comfortable with right now. Don't be is soo much of a rush, guy. Horses are a long term investment. Arabs and Mustangs are considered "hot blooded" - LOTS of get up and go and spirit, that's their nature. Mules and donkeys are NOT as glamorous, but most times do the job you want far better than a horse. A good riding/packing mule beats a horse most any day in the smarts and safety departments.

While you are correct about Arabs being hot-blooded, Mustangs tend more the other direction, in my experience. Once they are gentled and settle down in the company of people, they can be downright placid. My first mustang, when I got her (fresh off the range and had never been handled except to be branded and vaccinated in a squeeze chute) would as soon have killed you as looked at you. She was worse than most, and yet by the time I'd had her two years, she was a 'dead-head' as my cowboy friends would put it. She was totally kid-safe; my two older daughters, who were at that time seven and nine, could ride her with no problems. This seems to be more the rule than the exception with mustangs. They usually don't have the 'hot' temperament that we associate with Arabs.

Kathleen

[goatlady]

I must have run into the exceptions then, gal, both in Colorado and South Dakota. Excellent horses, good endurance, extremely alert and quick to react to their surroundings. Those last 2 traits are necessary for their survival in the plains and from my experience also require the same traits in the rider.

[Summerthyme]

I think what we have to remember (total thread drift here... sorry) is that "mustang" is NOT a breed. Different wild herds have vastly different genetics... I've seen some which are clearly almost pure Spanish Barb, and some which obviously had the "donation" of some Arabian or TB genes (probably from someone's escaped ranch horse). And my very first horse was a tiny (13.3 hh) paint mare who had draft traits (hammer headed, heavier mane, tail and feathers than the warm bloods)... but who also beat some very expensive Quarter horses more than once in PLEASURE classes...despite very obvious conformational faults. She'd been captured from a wild herd as a foal, had four different ranch brands on her, and taught me more about horses than any since. She was stubborn and crafty, but once we got it settled as to who was boss... rock solid and willing to do anything. She spent almost 25 years after I sold her as a mounted Sheriff's patrol horse... and died at 38, beloved and cared for to the end. I miss her...

The other thing to remember about Mustangs is that *most* of them grew up in an arid, rocky, OPEN environment. They are generally easy keepers, but may not do well on lush feed. And some of them seem uncomfortable in environments like close woods, where they can't see "what's coming". In that type situation, they may be a little more "jumpy", because they can't notice potential danger until it's almost on top of them.

Summerthyme

[dreadstalker]

If you are planning on using a horse for bug-out please make sure that you have good footwear.
Save the animals back for when you really need to ride.

Your horse will last longer and be healthier. So will you be.

[medicinescout]

I am taking lessons but have been doing alot of riding. I am learning how to cut. I have been taught the indian way o letting the horse teach you not the way of making the horse do what you want. The horse that I have been training with belongs to a person who doesn't believe how I was taught but his horse works better for me than him. This is the best way to be with mustangs as they are more independant than a quarter horse. You all are great with your knowledge about horses. I have been around horses only a short time especially compared to most of you. Horses are greart for bugging out and because they are prey animals they know how to hide if they are cued from the lead horse (hopefully the rider) to hide. Their senses are far better than ours and they keep the baseline of concentric rings down so you dont alert anyone who know how to read them (unfortunatly spec ops know this). The fact that a horse will carry you farther and faster than you can travel is also a huge plus especially if you are escaping an attack zone where modern vehicles cant. Also EMP doesn't effect horses and they can find food in fields and are quiet. I don't have any experience with horses while using a backpack or in mountains where we plan on going. Any help in this matter is appreciated as I will only have one horse unless I take one to use as a pack horse (Only when SHF).

[momof23goats]

well ,if using horses, I would say one or 2 pack, horses, or animals, and a spare mount.
Horses get tired, if you plan on using only one horse, to ride, I can tell you, this, you will kill the horse before you get there. It is best to have , at least on pack animal, and 2 mounts, you must switch off. so your mount can rest.
and I would try to get some mountain riding in. that is a little tricker than just riding on the plains, or the woods. If you are using just one horse, and going to carry your bed roll, then you might make it. but your going to need extra clothes, some thing to cook in .see what I am saying? and your food, freeze dried, or some thing lite. but you will have to carry it. when you wiegh your horse down, you wear him out fast. mush faster than you think .
I have 2 teams, plus, goats for pack animals. so my animals can rest. now you have to know where you are going , and where water is. my goats can go allot longer with out water, than a horse can. I would say this, make several dry runs, ride over the way you are going to use to get out mark the water holes, and where you will camp.
don't just wait for the time to leave, and hit the trail, that will not be a good thing.
you can also bury supplies, along your trail, so you know where your going, and what you have hidden. and make sure that when you get to where you are going ,you have some kind of shelter for your animals.you can use tarps, to make a shelter for your animals, but they need to be able to get out of wind, rain, and snow. If going up into snow country, what are your horses going to eat.
forging is a great thing, if they can get to the food. Here in michigan, animals will die , in the winter months, because they can't get to the ground to forge anything, because of the snow.
most mountains in the USA, have snow in the winter months. so you have to plan for feeding them.
and is your horse sure footed enough to climb in the mountains. takes a stead horse, and aa steady rider to climb, or even to go down the mountains. completely different riding than on the plains.

[Alder]

If a horse is gonna work, he has to eat and eat well. Most horses don't work to any extent at all these days and folks have no idea how quickly they can go downhill. Grazing a couple hours a day or even overnight (Hobble or picket-broke? Bell mare?) won't cut it for long.

Remember too that a horse that is working will lose weight and your equipment will not fit the same from day to day as he loses weight. Sores from a poorly fitting saddle or breast collar will make him useless.

As will any hoof bruises. If you are going to be spending much time in the high-up owl-hoot country scrabbling around on the rocks, your horse will need shoes. Don't care if he is a mustang or an Arab or even a mule. Stone bruises and the resulting abscesses will immobilize the critter and make him no use to you. More of a hindrance.

I have spent several weeks at a time up in the hills and mountains with relatively fit, regularly worked horses. We always carried supplemental feed and had pack stock to carry the supply load. They all come back much lighter. Some up to 100lbs. And we spent a LOT of time cooling hot-spots, readjusting equipment to avoid soring and giving as much comfort to the critters as our experience allowed. A lot didn't make another trip because they couldn't cut it. Those that did were from many breeds/backgrounds and it was difficult to predict which ones would do well until tested.

Given my experience and the choice, in a bugout situation, I'd rather not have to worry about horses unless I had a short trip and a set final destination. Horses are a hell of a lot of trouble and worry even for experienced folk on an extended trip. You'd better know your horse and yourself and both be fit and tested.

OTOH, if you want a horse to ride, go for it. It's a great, fun way to see country and you will learn a lot. Go camping with him for a few days and put on 15-20 miles a day when it's not a life/death situation. See how it goes.

[medicinescout]

The mustang that I was looking at was sold. My friend who has been training me has told me not to buy a horse and if I need one I can use one of hers or take one from the farm down the road. I don't like the idea about stealing a horse but when SHF I may have to. If we go the horse theif way, we can set them free after we use them for a few days if need be without a big loss. If we take her horses we will have to keep them as they belong to us. You ae right about horses wearing out fast, this is why the plains indians rode them to death then ate them. The apache were noted for this.

[goatlady]

Mom and Alder both state excellent points. YOu need to learn hoof care for sure and probably shoeing, and certainly some vet work and have the supplies needed for those jobs. All in all horses are fun in normal times, but in a SHTF time, not really a good idea. they also have a tendency to whinny, short, chuff, and stamp at inopportune times!

[momof23goats]

thats right Goatlady. It is very hard to train a horse, to be still, and not make a sound. takes a long time. Then it is not a shoe in shall we say. because horses get startled easily.
I(f you live in the west, and going to ride out, start training now in the mountains. really where ever you live, because that opens up a whole new ball game. So does snow, and rain.

[janetn]

Here's my two cents worth. If your going to bug out with a horse, get one that has done endurance riding. They are used to riding 20 plus miles in a day they are physicially proven on long hauls plus they have seen a lot and are usually bomb proof ie not much rattles em. If your out in the middle of nowhere you better have a horse that trusts YOU. Horses are flight or fight animals, you are going to have to be able to override their instinct in a tight situation. If you cant your going to risk getting hurt. Or left out in the middle of nowhere without your supplies on foot. I would tend to think that a mustang is going to be a little harder to get to override instinct. Horses do not stand quietly when faced with a threat on their own in the wild, they run.

I had a test for if a horse trusted me [DO NOT DO THIS ON THE HORSE YOUVE CHOOSENS BACK] Have a friend rattle a milkcarton filled with rocks. Stand ten to fifteen feet away from the horse when it starts to spook [and it will] say whoa halt or whatever verbal cue you use with the mustang youve choosen. If that horse overides its instinct and stands there you have a good trail horse/partner. If the horse ignores you and bolts - your riding a horse that in a pinch will leave you in the dirt. Also if you have to treat an injury your going to need that trust factor trying to treat a wound on a horse can be challenging with a horse that does not trust you. A horse that trusts you will go about anywhere under any circumstances. Some horses are naturally people friendly, those are the ones you want they are generally smarter too.

Vet check any horse you are getting, no exceptions! Right now horses are a dime a dozen - even good ones.

Get John Lyons books and study them, he is a wealth of knowledge and explains horse behavior in understandable terms. You can never make a 1,00lb plus animal do anything with any degree of reliability. Cowboys manhandled horses out of nessisity, and they had rank horses that often hurt them.

[momof23goats]

all of the above is true. Planning on riding out , on horse back is really just nuts. you would be getter off, putting that money into gas cans, and saving gas, to use to bug out in. your not experienced .
I have ha many years around horses, and like i said I have 2 teams, and a saddle horse. but i wouldn't think of leaving with them if there was any other way, and that is with 4 of us, knowing horses, and we have all been around them since we were old enough to set a saddle.my hubby and I , take one of the teams out, most of the time when he is home, and we hook up the wagon, or cart, and we go about 5 miles in a morning, just for a nice slow ride.
We have had a couple of times had things happen, that it took us both. to keep things together. you are talking more than one person riding out.
you better hope that all are good horsemen. and plan on at least 2 pack horses for each horse you ride. your going to have to carry grain, and hay cubes.
and horses eat allot. if they don't drop dead .If you want to take them, take then in a trailer, we are going to ours. then use them to ride to hunt with or some thing. but not as a way out, when things go belly up. this really isn't a good idea. way to many things can go wrong, for you and the horse. I would rather you be safe than sorry.

[dreadstalker]

You can use horse for transportation. Ouer ancestors did. But you do have to know the limitations of your horse's and even more you have to know the linitations of yourself.

[goatlady]

Like has been discussed in the depression threads - different times, different folks and most certainly different horses. Just as today's humans have lost skills and mind sets, so to the current "crops" of animals. Today most humans dropped into a survival situation would have a very difficult time, same with todays riding horses.

[Little RedRidingHood]

back.
I'm really glad that all of you have given such excellent advise to a greenhorn. Sorry ... but it's the truth ... you need alot of help to get thru what you have planned on doing.
And ... stealing a horse ... in the western part of the country is still a hanging offense! Try to steal one of mine and I'll do the three S's for sure!! If I didn't get you ... one of my three guardian dogs would ... they run with the mares 24/7!!
But, on to the really important part ... listen to all this great free advise! These forum writers are all people who have raised, trained or ridden, or all three, for a long, long time. I've ridden since I was 8 and owned horses since I was 12! That is over 47+ years and I learn something new all the time. I know enough to keep my mind open to new ideas and try never to feel I've learned it all ... cause then you get caught between a rock and a hard spot with no way out. And, when that happens on a horse ... it could easily cost you your life!! In a heartbeat!
Continue to take the lessons, maybe work part-time for someone who will teach you to pack and safely ride the trails. Remember that the breed of horse or the color of the horse is NOT THAT IMPORTANT! I've had some really beautiful broodmares who were hell on wheels and unsafe at any speed,on or off. I've had others that you could do anything with and win at halter besides.
What really, really matters is whether you and the horse click. There must be trust to and from both of you. That takes time and so take your time finding that right one for you.
Buying a horse is not like buying a car. Remember you are buying a living, breathing animal that takes care, love and understanding.
The love of the animal must be first in you mind and in your thoughts. You must care just as much for your horse as you do for yourself. Never place the animal in such a spot as to cost it it's life due to lack of care and knowledge of their mindset.
Remember ... no question is a dumb question. We'll be happy to help you all we can! Ask away!

[Summerthyme]

back.
Remember that the breed of horse or the color of the horse is NOT THAT IMPORTANT! I've had some really beautiful broodmares who were hell on wheels and unsafe at any speed,on or off. I've had others that you could do anything with and win at halter besides.
What really, really matters is whether you and the horse click. There must be trust to and from both of you. That takes time and so take your time finding that right one for you.



This is so important that I wanted to repeat it. I've owned several horses over my lifetime. A little mustang mare was my first horse.My next, an off track Thoroughbred who won his last stakes race at 8, was one of the most correct, stunningly beautiful animals you can imagine. My 1/2 Arabian, 1/2 SHETLAND pony mare was still the one I miss the most... too small for most adults, we covered well over 10,000 miles together in the 27 years I had her... and she was a rescue, stunted badly by 3 years old when I bought her for 10 bucks (when good horses were going for thousands), but literally worth her weight in gold. She could cut cows, carry a newborn calf ahead of me (I'm tall, but only weigh about 125#) while the mama cow was clobbering her from behind, and teach babies and toddlers to ride. I've seen Quarter horses who were beautiful, and completely useless because of their "stylish" tiny hooves, and some which weren't beautiful, but would carry you to hell and back, safely.

That mustang mare, my very first horse, was not even remotely pretty. Horrid conformation, by any "book" standard... coarse head, long back, a rump that sloped a little too much. But good feet and legs, great gaits and- once we came to terms over who was boss- did anything I asked. The looks on some faces of folks watching her do flying lead changes with every stride with no visible aids were priceless!

The most important parts of any horses are their feet and legs.. and their mind! If you have one who trusts you, and who is sane and sensible, they may save your life. The hardest part for many beginners (and often too many who have ridden, but who have the "movie cowboy" mentality) is trusting the horse's judgement ahead of their own. Doesn't matter as much in the show ring... on the trail, especially in rough country, it can be invaluable.

An example: my Thoroughbred hadn't ever been on trails, roads or even ridden in fields before I got him. A big, 16.2 hh chestnut, he was "hot", but controllable. He soon learned to love woods riding and trails. One day, I cued him to jump a small creek in a strange woods. He refused... *totally* out of character for him. This horse could jump 4'6" jumps, or 6' spreads... and he wasn't afraid of water. I was still young (16) and dumb (that whole "who is boss" thing is only important until you get it sorted out once and for all... then, it should be a partnership. You live and learn... if you're lucky). I wanted to cross that creek. He didn't. He was well trained... I "won". He jumped... belly deep into quicksand.

I was very, very lucky. (well, actually my guardian angel, who has since been retired due to a nervous breakdown, was working overtime again! LOL!). There was a tree within reach on the bank, and I was able to bail off and (probably due to my much lighter weight) crawl to solid ground and wrap the reins around it. With a lot of encouragement and leverage from the reins, I got him free. And I NEVER ignored his instincts again.

The 1/2 arabian pony was another "bomb proof" one. She was the one I trusted my kids riding, anytime, anywhere. I knew they might try something stupid... and I knew she wouldn't let them! I was riding in our woods one time and suddenly I heard that horrible "singing" of loose wire. The slobs who owned this place before we got it used to dump coils of barbed wire wherever they felt like it, and had several dumps of old bottles and junk. She'd stepped directly into a coil of wire... and it was anchored deeply in the ground in spots. I yelled "whoa" and bailed off. I was riding bareback, and didn't have wire cutters (another imperative... even just a small cantle pack can carry a few vitally important tools). The wire was wrapped around three legs, with the barbs embedded in places... not deep, but painful. She was shaking all over, but stood like a rock while I carefully picked up each foot and unwrapped each strand. No damage at all to either of us... but on another, less rock-solid animal, it could have been a horrible disaster.

My Arabian gelding, who I'm nursing along at 25 (bad, unfixable teeth), is the opposite, unfortunately. He'd make a great show horse, and is actually pretty good in the woods. But get him in the open, and he sees things which aren't there. I had one of the strangest experiences of my life riding him... He saw a large field of shocked oats and spooked. As he stood there, rigid and shaking, I suddenly saw EXACTLY what he was seeing... and that wasn't inanimate stacks of oats. It was small, dark colored gremlins, marching in rows across the field- with their clear intent to get him! (yes, I'm serious... I do rather easily meld my mind with my animals, and my husband swears I speak horse, as well as dog and cat- I translate for him often!... but that was THE weirdest experience I've ever had)

This horse would jump 15 feet sideways in one leap, reacting to a flash of light off a piece of metal in the grass. Absolutely NO warning. I often said "he'd jump in front of a semi-truck to avoid a popcan"... and I wasn't kidding. Rather obviously, he's not safe for roads, or a lot of other riding. It's one thing for you to not know what your horse is going to next. It's worse yet if the HORSE doesn't know!

And yes, I'm a sucker... I've had him for 24 years, as mostly- useless as he is (I don't have the time, money or interest to show, and I can't afford a bad fall- after two back surgeries, I could too easily end up in a wheelchair), I knew he'd probably end up in a slaughterhouse... and it's not his fault he's slightly crazy. So... he's here for life.

But if you could line up all of the ones I've had over the past 35 years (and there have been others, which weren't right for me, who were sold on to good homes they were better suited for), you'd probably pick that Arabian out of the bunch as one of the "best". He's personable, perfectly mannered on the ground, and gorgeous.

Which is why people recommend that you do everything in your power to try to arrange a short term (a month or so should be plenty) "lease" of any horse you're interested in. That's obviously not always possible; the alternative needs to be that you'll be willing to resell any animal which isn't a good fit, until you find the right one.

Horse "dealers" often have a very bad rep. Many times, it's well earned. But a good one will often let you return a "bad fit" and exchange them for another of their animals... within reason, of course! Private sales are almost always final, and often have way too much emotion involved, on both sides.

Some of this is reminding myself...I'm currently looking for a good small horse or large pony, and I'm going to take my time. It's hard to not get impatient (and in my case, it's not for a bug-out ride, but for everyday farm work and fun)... but it's too costly to feed one which isn't "right". I'll find the right one, sooner or later.

Summerthyme

[medicinescout]

I would only take a horse when the SHTF where the horse would probally die anyways. I will be driving my 4x4 truck to where I need to be. If I cannot drive there I will walk or take a horse or some other off road transportation. I ride almost everyday an am very comfortable with the horse and DO TRUST HIM. I ride in the old way by allowing the horse to do his thing while I just lead. Our relationship is growing and we work well together. The person who taught me to ride is 100% Cherokee and is the best person I ever seen around horses.

[medicinescout]

back.
I'm really glad that all of you have given such excellent advise to a greenhorn. Sorry ... but it's the truth ... you need alot of help to get thru what you have planned on doing.
And ... stealing a horse ... in the western part of the country is still a hanging offense! Try to steal one of mine and I'll do the three S's for sure!! If I didn't get you ... one of my three guardian dogs would ... they run with the mares 24/7!!
But, on to the really important part ... listen to all this great free advise! These forum writers are all people who have raised, trained or ridden, or all three, for a long, long time. I've ridden since I was 8 and owned horses since I was 12! That is over 47+ years and I learn something new all the time. I know enough to keep my mind open to new ideas and try never to feel I've learned it all ... cause then you get caught between a rock and a hard spot with no way out. And, when that happens on a horse ... it could easily cost you your life!! In a heartbeat!
Continue to take the lessons, maybe work part-time for someone who will teach you to pack and safely ride the trails. Remember that the breed of horse or the color of the horse is NOT THAT IMPORTANT! I've had some really beautiful broodmares who were hell on wheels and unsafe at any speed,on or off. I've had others that you could do anything with and win at halter besides.
What really, really matters is whether you and the horse click. There must be trust to and from both of you. That takes time and so take your time finding that right one for you.
Buying a horse is not like buying a car. Remember you are buying a living, breathing animal that takes care, love and understanding.
The love of the animal must be first in you mind and in your thoughts. You must care just as much for your horse as you do for yourself. Never place the animal in such a spot as to cost it it's life due to lack of care and knowledge of their mindset.
Remember ... no question is a dumb question. We'll be happy to help you all we can! Ask away!
I never said I was just learning how to ride. I ride everyday and am learning how to do more than just trail ride. I do appreciate all the info about horses for bug out transportation. They are just an option. I have a truck and enough gas to get just about anywhere in the upper 48. When the time comes I will most likely just walk where I need to go unless I need to move fast (Horse time or other means). I have never been on a horse for days a time but if need be I can take a horse and use it for a day and release it or eat it at base camp, besides the owner is going to have his hands full just watching CNN to keep an eye on his horses when that time comes. If you use a horse it is a mobile meal for a winter. Thinking this way a horse is a great way to go unless you are being hunted by someone or group. Thank you all again for all the great info.

[goatlady]

Most usually the statement "I have been taking riding lessons on this same horse ..." means learning how to ride or very little experience. Our responses were totally based on what you originally posted.

[medicinescout]

I just ride other peoples horses. The one I have been training to cut cows on the horse I have been using lately. I was going to buy a horse but my friend talked me out of it because of the upkeep and other aspects. I don't pay to ride because I barter and help these people out and they teach me for free. Sorry for not elaberating on this. I had my own horse when I was about 8yrs old (I am almost 40). Since then I have rode others horses. Most of my friends own their own horses so it is conveinant for me. Thanks again

[goatlady]

Thanks for the clarification. Puts things is a slightly different light though.

[Summerthyme]

Medicine Scout... also, please realize that we're not pointing our posts at you, specifically. They're more in the line of general information for others who may be considering non-motorized transportation.

Summerthyme

[night driver]

And yeah there ARE pretty greenhorn-semi-educated folk lurking and learning more and mre.....