Looking for opinions on goat milk

[babysteps]

Those of you with goats...

Hubby and I have been talking about goats for a while now. We have lots of overgrown brushy acreage, which would seem perfect for goat pasture. We've been working on improving the fencing (especially after reading momof23goats' stories about Clyde! I don't plan on bucks, but if one goat can do it...) around the place, and I recently tossed the idea of milking them at my hubby.

Everything I have read... I have no first hand experience... says that milk is milk. Goat milk, cow milk... no real difference. Hubby has no first hand experience either, but his mom has him convinced that goat milk is one of the nastiest substances ever created... one step above poison in a glass. I don't know if she has actually tasted it, or if it's an untested opinion.

So what can you tell me? I want to find someone close by and try the milk myself... but until then, what do y'all have to say?

[goatlady]

I have found that the feed for the goat GREATLY effects the flavor of the mil, though breed and individual goat also play a part. Nubian goat milk has the highest butterfat content is is very rich and cramy, and makes the best hard cheeses. ANY goat milk can taste nasty depending on how it's handles and what the goat eats. You can buy some in your grocery store to try BUT that is pasturized stuff like cow's milk so not a fiar taste test. The big difference between goat and cow milk is the digestability of goat milk - smaller fat molecules, easier to digest, and relatively allergy free. It's used almost exclusively in hospitals in the premature nurseries to keep those babies alive, growing, and thriving.

[Little RedRidingHood]

I was only 17 when I bought my first wether. When my first son was born he was allergic to everything cow or soy. I went to a health food store down the road to ask for help. The older couple there told me about goats milk and I bought three quarts for my little guy. He loved it! It was the only milk he could drink for years!
I then bought a young nubian cross milker and started feeding him her milk fresh. I'd have to travel too far to buy the quarts of goat milk, and ran out of room to freeze enough for a week for a growing baby. Having the doe on the place made everything easier. This time frame was during the gas rationing and gas was very hard to get!
Anyway ... from then on I have always had goats for milk. I've made everything you can make from goats milk and it DOES NOT TASTE BAD. Believe me if it smelled or tasted bad I would NOT ever let it pass these lips ... touchy stomach and large gag reflex!!
Look, anyone here, that raises these great animals will tell you that anyone can get a bad taste in their milk ... It takes great care, regular wormings, proper feeding and GOOD milking practices to make great milk! If you milk into a wide open bucket without cleaning off your doe's udder properly, without trimming up the udders BEFORE they freshen and other such things ... you're going to get crappy tasting milk.
My does have a warm, dry, and clean stall. They are feed good hay and better grain. They are wormed, given their shots and not mixed with any other stock. Thus they are not run around or attacked to damage their udders. I had two huge sows chase two very pg does one time, years and years ago, right before they kidded. I lost one doe when the three doelings inside ruptured the uterus and killed the doe. I saved all three kids but never wish to go thru that ever again! Besides the heartache of losing my best milker I had three doelings in a playpen inside my house for a week on feeding tubes!
Find someone who raises really NICE goats, and has a really clean and well run operation. Go and watch them a few times, learn and help out. Then decide what you want to do.
The goat is called the poor man's cow BUT ... I have had BOTH and I like my goats much better. I'm not real tall or strong anymore due to severe back and arm injuries but I can handle the girls just fine.
And, they give sweet goat kisses not slap you upside the head with a cow pie tail!! Or break your arm with a well placed kick.
The rule is five goats = one cow ... upkeep and moneywise. But a cow will cost alot more to begin with. I really enjoyed all the milk with that Jersey I had BUT it was still more milk than my family of seven could wade thru a day. And, that was with me making cheese, kefir, butter, yogart and using it for general cooking everyday.
I can also trust my girls to behave when the grandbabies want to pet and haul them around by their collars or help milk. I don't worry about the grandbabies getting run over or kicked.
You'll get lots of others who will answer your question. Maybe a TOL member lives close enough to you to give you a quart or two of milk for testing.
Good luck and happy milking!

[Belle]

I was raised on storebought cow's milk, but bought my first milk goat at age 29. I'd tasted storebought goat's milk before, but fresh tastes so much different, you'd never think it was the same thing. If it's fresh, clean, and cold, I can't tell it from cow's milk. After a couple of days, it does start to taste goaty, though (IMO)

In order to get around using older milk to drink, my advice is to use it as fast as you can and just keep milking for drinking. I think it makes great yoghurt and cheese and it's the best thing you can put in coffee.

[Demodave]

keep the buck away from the does, the buck's have a "nasty" smell to them.

Once youve tried homemade pudding made with goats milk, you'll never go back....

Clean, cold, and good feed are the things to remember.

Yummmmmmmmm

[just me]

When I had goats, there was a definite flavor difference. Realize that goat milk has all of the cream in it and that makes a big difference in taste to 2% cow milk from the store.

Yes, what the goat eats will affect the flavor and yes, keep the buck away :)

The rule is five goats = one cow ... upkeep and moneywise. But a cow will cost alot more to begin with.

LRRH, around here the five goats would cost more than the cow or at least the same. I haven't been able to find any goats for sale for less than $250 ea and some were considerably higher - doesn't matter if they are registered, crosses or whatever breed. A good milk cow runs for $1000 - $1400.

Personally, I want both a milk cow and a few dairy goats. But we eat lots of cheeses and other dairy products plus the excess milk is great for the pigs.

[momof23goats]

I raise Nubian's, the pure breeds, and the mini nubians. I am going more with the mini's because they are smaller, and give about the same amount of milk as the larger full sized Nubian's. My girls are spoiled, and sweet, they give kisses, love treats, and come running when mom goes out side.
they get good feed, and are kept clean. their udders are washed and dried before milking, and again after. they are wormed, and they get their shots. in fact, I just came from the vet today. I give ,my girls vitamins from the vet instead of over the counter stuff. I want to make sure they are well cared for, and they get their minerals. those are set out, for them free feed, along with baking soda. The grain, is fed on the milk stand. and I feed goat chow.
clyde, is a Nigerian dwarf, you use him to greed down the full sized nubians, well there is a little more to it than that. but that is a basic. so having him breed everything on the place, wasn't as bad as it could have been. but I wasn't going to use him, because I now have 3 mini bucks.
good water, good food, and hay is the key to good milk, and healthy animals.
Goats are herd animals, so getting just one isn't a good Idea, you should get 2. does. bucks, are not hard, they are easy, I just happen to have a really good and fast buck. But clyde, will be up tomorrow, when hubby gets home. and in a short while rut season will be over, and he will be a sweet heart again.
I trust my girls with kids, my neighbor kids have grown up with my goats. they pet them lead them to the milk stand, give them treats, feed them . hug them . they are gentle. In all my years of having goats, I have had one that was just @@@@ ion wheels, and I sold her.
but these goats, are so sweet, if I fall or some thing while out side, they all come to the fence, and call to me. very concerned about me.

[QFMom]

We have milk goats and love them and the milk.

I agree CLEAN properly handled goats milk is delicious. PLEASE if you are considering goats do NOT try the store stuff!!! Find someone local to you and try their milk.

Milk into clean stainless steel or glass. Store in glass.

Filter well.

CHILL rapidly!! We use an ice bath.

Warning though... goats are addictive. They have fantastic personalities. We started with 2 bred does 4yrs ago. I am kidding out 23 this yr. We raise La Mancha's and Mini Manchas. LM butterfat is comparable to nubians. Nigerians have the highest butterfat... so any mini breed should have a slightly higher bf than their full size counterpart. La Manchas tend to have a quieter personality and a will to milk. Though many people find their small eared/earless look odd... I love them. They were actually orginally bred in your neck of the woods...

As far as having a buck.... I prefer it and especially as a newbie trying to catch a heat and get your doe to a buck for breeding is going to be problematic. My bucks are very gentle... especially my full size ones.

I raise my goat kids with my human kids. Seriously... my small backyard is where my littles play and where I keep my younger goat kids until they wean at about 4-5mos. We bottle feed. We do this for CAE prevention and so they are more tame.

Good minerals, clean feed preferably without lots of fillers and mollasses.... Besides browse my goats get alfalfa pellets and clean race horse oats and a bit of black oil sunflower seeds.

The milk besides drinking is wonderful for yogurt, cheese, ice cream...

Basic stats... goats are pregnant for 5mos. You can milk through the first 3 mos of their pregnancy with good nutrition so you can milk 10 months of the yr. Some breeds will milk longer. LM are good for this especially. Depending on the breeder goats usually kid the first time between 12-24mos old.

A decent milk goat in my area without papers sells for $225-350. Registered is usually more.

[Yooper]

Wow! Lots of great advice and so many goat experts here!
We've raised only Oberhasli for 6 years now and are partial to that breed for the mild tasting milk and their quiet sweet temperment. But I think everyone has their favorite breed!
In addition to what everyone has said, may I suggest that you make sure to get quality animals that have a pedigree. I know there are lots of good quality animals out there without papers and that's fine. But if a goat has a pedigree, you have somewhere to start as to what kind of kids they will have and the chances of them being healthy are a bit higher. Two things determine a quality animal...genetics and nutrition.
This is an investment of your money and time. It's worth putting a few extra dollars into something that will give you so much!
Bucks are fine to keep on hand and make breeding time so much easier, but definitely require separate housing. We have five right now. They all are sweethearts, especially Drake, the escape artist!
Just my two cents.
Darlene

[LMonty]

Nubian lover here! I second the info above. Theres a great thread going now on dairygoatinfo.com for folks buying their first goats. I think it would be a great overview for you if you are considering it. We're breeding now- I dried my girls up a bit ago. Looking forward to babies in the spring. I do love the excitement of it! hey are so much fun. Something really to consider NOW is getting the basics you would need if you do get goats- like womers, meds etc. If they disappear off the shelves soon due to the shipping and import problems, it would make it much harder for you later to really get set up right.

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,6383.0.html

[QFMom]

I do agree on buying registered animals! I have some of both.

And another DGI plug... great site!

[babysteps]

Thanks to ALL of you for your help! Now I just gotta find someone nearby who'll take pity on poor ignorant me :mrgreen: and let me try some milk. I don't know if it's legal to sell it here in Oregon... guess I'll have to look into that. I suspect not, but there's probably a way around it. Pet food or some such, ya know.

I'll admit to being rather partial to Kinders at this point... I love the color combinations and the airplane ears! :lol: But I'm still open to suggestions.

[janetn]

Goats milk tastes much better the faster it is cooled. Use smaller jars to cool it quicker. As everyone else has stated feed and cleanliness are keys also. I taught my girls to come right into the kitchen to milk, no bugs no dirt ect. Im a real germ freak and i just couldnt bring myself to get my milk from a dirty barn:-P They would line up at the door at milking time. Never pooped in the house either.

Goats milk is thicker than cows milk - its naturally pasterized, so if your family is used to say 2% milk it might be too rich for them at first. I would introduce it slowly, by mixing it with the milk you presently drink and slowly increase the amount of goats milk.

Everyone has there favorite breed, mine is LaManchas,my Lamanchas gave the best tasting milk IMO. But Im sure I am biased.

[janetn]

Forgot one important thing. Goats milk makes the absolute best ice cream in the world. Heavenly, be prepared to put on one or two little pounds if you try ice cream from it you will be hooked

[LMonty]

babysteps-check out DGI. They do have members in Oregon and know folks all over. With luck, there's someone real close to you.

agree with the ice cream- yumm! but dont forget biscuits- lowly homemade biscuits using self rising flour and GM are the best...it makes awesome gravies too. Its just great in cooking.

[Belle]

Goats milk tastes much better the faster it is cooled. Use smaller jars to cool it quicker. As everyone else has stated feed and cleanliness are keys also. I taught my girls to come right into the kitchen to milk, no bugs no dirt ect. Im a real germ freak and i just couldnt bring myself to get my milk from a dirty barn:-P They would line up at the door at milking time. Never pooped in the house either.
LOL That's my best laugh so far today! I'd have never thought to bring 'em in the house! :mrgreen:

[goatlady]

Gee, Belle, your not a real goat keeper until you have had those hour-old kids in the bathtub trying to revive them and warm them up in the dead of winter!! towels and hot water bottles work wonders. LOL.

[Israeli]

I built an organic goat dairy here in Israel for a village of handicapped adults.
I started with 28 and ended up with 756.

We used the Shami or Damascus goat, a VERY large breed (the males, when they stand on their hind legs to reach the upper leaves easily reach 6 and a half to seven feet) with long long ears, long brown hair, a "Roman" nose and they are as loving and friendly as dogs. I had some that would actually drop the food from their mouths and run to the fence to get loved on.

Good barn hygene and distance from the bucks avoids the heavy "goaty" taste goat's milk can have . Gentle handling avoids the rupturing of the capricein molecules in the milk. Yes, rapid chilling too.

Goat milk is nearly identical to human milk so is extremely healthy for children and babies. (A new mom used to come and get some from my dairy for her new born)

An Arab worker came one morning to take goat milk for his new foal when the mother lost her milk. He said it was ideal and horse breeders prefere it.

There is no finer, more loving or more productive animal on God's green earth than the goat, IMHO.

[Belle]

Gee, Belle, your not a real goat keeper until you have had those hour-old kids in the bathtub trying to revive them and warm them up in the dead of winter!! towels and hot water bottles work wonders. LOL.
Oh, I've had kids in the bathtub, kitchen, and livingroom - just never milked in the kitchen. (Yet)

[hunybee]

i have a question (sorry for the thread drift), actually two. why do you need to keep the bucks away from the does? why does this make the flavor "off"?


and i always thought that goat milk was the best and closest thing to human breast milk that you could get (as was just stated in an above post). long story short, doctors were very adament that until the child is 1 year old, they need to have cow milk formula, or breast milk because goat milk was not the closest thing to breast milk, but that cow milk was. and if you gave your baby goat milk, they will not develop properly because goat milk does not have a certain protein chain that babies need, and that only cows milk does. so.....who's right?

[Little RedRidingHood]

And, he is no midget or under muscled! He was tall and thin but that was the way his grandpa was also at his age.
I'd have to go with all the parents who have raised healthy hardy children by raising them on goat's milk. Without the goat milk my son may not have made it cause he could not drink cow or soy and my milk dried up ... The hospital gave me the wrong shot and caused an allergic reaction. I lost all my milk within days of his birth.
I've raised every type of farm animal on goat's milk and they all love it and do very well. The hens get a mix of feed and milk and lay like crazy!

[Freeholder]

It's not a protein chain that goat milk is lacking, it's folic acid (a good reminder that doctors don't know everything, LOL!). If you are feeding an infant solely on goat milk, you need to supplement with folic acid, or, as soon as they are old enough for solid food, supplement with a food high in folic acid. Unfortunately, there are a lot of misconceptions about goats out there! Of course, if possible, mother's milk is the best for all babies, but goat milk is the next best thing for many kinds of babies.

Babysteps, where in Oregon are you? I know quite a few breeders here, and through networking can find lots more, LOL!

As far as the flavor of the milk, I've done taste tests on quite a few people, cow milk side by side with goat milk, and none of them could tell which was which. In fact, several people, when they come to visit, ask for goat milk (we have cow milk in the frig, because my grandmother can't drink the goat milk -- it's too high-fat for her).

Most of the year, it won't hurt to run your bucks with the does (although if you have a breed that will breed year-round, you may have unplanned pregnancies that way). It's just in the fall and early winter when they are in rut that it's a problem. IMO, bucks have sweeter, more affectionate personalities than the does, but when they are in rut they STINK!

Breed does make a difference to the flavor of the milk. The higher the butterfat, the sweeter the milk tastes, which gives an advantage to the small breeds (Nigerian Dwarf, Pygmy if you want to try to milk one! Kinders and the mini-breeds also have higher butterfat. Of the large breeds, usually Nubians have the highest butterfat, although selective breeding for high butterfat in herds on test can bring it up in any breed.). But there are strains within breeds that may have strong-flavored milk, especially in the Toggenburgs, which have at least one strain that was specially bred to produce a strong-flavored cheese. I know that the only strong-flavored milk we've ever gotten from our goats was from a couple of Toggs that we had. Oh, and Boer does (a meat breed) can also be milked and have high butterfat like the dwarf and mini-breeds. But watch out for bad udders and feet in that breed.

Kathleen, near Klamath Falls

[Belle]

This is a little off-topic, but I want to post it in case this is a consideration for anyone.

I have twins that were born 3 months premature. One of them thrived, but the other was weak and small. I was told, when he was 10 months old, that he might never sit up and would certainly never walk. I told the doctor not to ever tell another parent something like that and I quit going to her. Then I went home and started exercising him.

He DID sit up, at nearly a year, and eventually learned to walk, at 2 yrs, 3 months, but he was deathly skinny. You see, his time on the ventilator when he was a newborn (he wasn't breathing on his own) had taken its toll. It caused him to have undeveloped muscles. He looked like a skeleton with skin stretched over it. He couldn't make a muscle, like boys love to do.

Then, when he was six, I bought some goats and started feeding the children raw goats' milk. Within 3 months, he began to grow muscles (or rather, his muscles began to enlarge). He could finally make a muscle with his left arm. After another couple of months, he was able to make a muscle with his right arm, as well.

He's 14 now and quite stocky and strong. He's short for his age, but can do everything other 14 year olds can do.

[Freeholder]

Something I forgot about in my post above: it IS legal to sell raw milk in Oregon. There are restrictions -- you can't have more than two milk cows or nine milk goats (that counts does that have been milked but are now dry, but doesn't count young does or male animals); you can't advertise; your customers have to pick their milk up at your farm; and they also have to bring their own containers. But within those limitations, yes, it is legal to sell raw milk. NOT cheese or yogurt or anything manufactured, though, unless you jump through all their hoops first. I've had quite a few people ask me if I sold milk (I don't as I'm only milking one doe right now, and don't have any milk to spare), so even with the restriction on advertising word of mouth would probably get you all the customers you could handle. I know a lady who sells goat milk and has more customers than she has milk.

Kathleen

[GoodEnergy]

I had Toggenbergs and Nubians for 6 years and second(third?twentieth?) all the good info/advice given so far. The one thing I'd add is not to bother trying to pasteurize milk at home. I was new and thought milk HAD to be pasteurized, but I found that my attempts at it yeilded an off taste. As previously noted, just chill it quickly. After filtering, I'd put it into quart jars and set it in the freezer for a couple of hours.
A funny aside; I had a little dog that insisted on sharing my coffee. She loved the goat milk, with no sugar, and would get quite assertive if she thought she wasn't getting her fair share. When we got rid of the goats and I returned to store bought cow's milk in the coffee, she wouldn't drink it for weeks and would fuss mightily about the change. From the mouths of babes?

[momof23goats]

I do the same, after I filter it I set it in the freezer to vet it cold fast, it is wonderful. I love it. yes, i have a pasterizer, do I use it? no.

[Stanb999]

Lots of good advise...

However, remember your herd DNA is half from the boy you have available. Keeping your own is the best way to insure quality (often you can get a billy from top lines for darn near nothing. In fact I've found quite a few folks willing to trade a billy for a billy to keep the genetics different). Here is my humble opinion only. Bucks don't affect the flavor of milk tight quarters and lack of cleanliness of the housing and milking parlor do.

A herd of goats has all ages and sexes, keep a herd. IMHO it's best to keep the herd together. The buck adds protection and stability to the herd. He keeps the lead girl from pushing the young girls around too much He is always bigger and stronger so he doesn't need to push them around and often gets it the middle to "play".
The reason most say not to keep a buck IMHO is that they keep goats in a feed lot type situation. Bucks can be quite an issue if kept this way with the girls. They are big and pushy. Just the way they are.

We on the other hand keep ours on pasture. They have loafing sheds and are never away from each other. Keeping them as a herd babies, bucks, nannies all together is good if you have room. For instance their summer pasture is 2.5 acres with the winter pasture being slightly more than a acre. This gives them all plenty of room.

Finally, If the buck is pushy with you, butts you, isn't scared of you, tries to be by you too much, or any bad type behavior. Get rid of it and get a nice one. What we have found that works best is to raise our own. This is because most folks make pets out of their nannies and treat the bucks the same. The Buck gets to thinking your part of the herd and try to be top dog. Then the problems begin.
Raising a buck don'ts
Don't pet him, kiss him, play with him.
Never Hit, push, shove.
If your getting him to trim hooves for instance, Never ever let him get the better of you. He always is subservient to you. Period.
If you avoid the things above he will be a valuable member of your herd and he will make you lots of babies.

Feed a buck is the same as for the ladies, Only the timing is different. He will need the added feed just before, during, and just after the rut. If he's a good buck he will be "working" the ladies. Chasing and running all day, but not taking much time for food so some grain will keep weight on. It is a bit of work for the old boy. So give him his due and he will get the job done for the herd.

[janetn]

Keeping a buck is a good idea if you have a large herd, and are selling breeding stock. For someone who has a couple of girls for the milk its not worth the cost of care. If a buck is available in the area Id stay away from the extra cost.

If your kids are going to be breeding stock or replacement stock for you than a quality buck is worth it. But if all you want is the milk and the kids -both does and bucks are destined for the freezer the quality of the buck is not important.

The best milkers and the hardiest goats I had were crosses. Cant milk papers. Registered stock is great for those breeding or showing but for the average homested again the cost of a registered animal verses agood grade is not worth it IMO. You need to look at confirmation, not papers. There are plenty of good grade animals out there.

sorry to those who have registered stock, but most of us are rationing dollars and need to get the most bang for the buck

[momof23goats]

Keeping a buck is a good idea if you have a large herd, and are selling breeding stock. For someone who has a couple of girls for the milk its not worth the cost of care. If a buck is available in the area Id stay away from the extra cost.

If your kids are going to be breeding stock or replacement stock for you than a quality buck is worth it. But if all you want is the milk and the kids -both does and bucks are destined for the freezer the quality of the buck is not important.

The best milkers and the hardiest goats I had were crosses. Cant milk papers. Registered stock is great for those breeding or showing but for the average homested again the cost of a registered animal verses agood grade is not worth it IMO. You need to look at confirmation, not papers. There are plenty of good grade animals out there.

sorry to those who have registered stock, but most of us are rationing dollars and need to get the most bang for the buck

Well, I have had both, my best milker, was papered, well, most all of my does were, and my bucks. I milked her 2 and 1/2 years from her first freshening. huge milker.
I have had 3 does that were not papered. and they were good does as well.
the thing of it this. Look at the does, learn goats first, learn good udder placement, and learn what to look for.
check the back, teeth, [tells the age], look at the knees, learn a good goat from a bad one. and you will go far.
I now have all mini nubies. their milk is wonderful very sweet, rich.
Clyde is a spoiled little goat, because my son's spoiled him rotten. I did sell clyde a couple of weeks ago.
I love him, but , he just was a handful. I have a good male now,and intend to keep him.
I have always kept my own buck. always, usually 3 or 4 of them.
But I did cut back on my herd, so now I have one.

[Little RedRidingHood]

own purebred buck. Reason: I do not like to take my stock off the ranch and expose them to other animals. I know my buck is clean of the crud, STDs, and I know what he is fed, and that he has had all his shots. He is a sweetheart and I do not use him on any outside animals at all. Thus my herd is closed. If I want to bring any other stock on the ranch they always go thru a 45 day isolation on a different part of the ranch and far away from my girls and my boy.
Just the way I run the ranch. Works for me. I use to breed outside does to my bucks and I use to board for friends. I learned the hard way and now I take extra care of my herd, just makes sense in time, money and worry.

[janetn]

Mom your right people need to know what a good goat looks like. A little time educating yourself in correct confirmation would go a long way. Ive had papered does that looked pretty but didnt milk squat or had problems kidding. but I have also had great papered does as well. The best doe I had was from a commercial dairy who was a LaMancha Toggenberg cross.

Their is a case to be made for a closed herd, but if you know the state of care where a breeding buck is I think you can remain safe. I am looking at cost/care of yet one more animal. I had two registered bucks, but I was breeding and showing then. Now I would be looking at providing my family with milk and meat at the least cost. To care for the animal properly - good feed vet care ect.. is not a small amount of money. I think that most looking at getting into goats would be in the same boat as me I hate to see someone getting animals when they dont understand the costs associated with them. You only need the buck for a few days a year with a couple of does :shock: The rest of the time he is just hanging out eating, dreaming about those few days:mrgreen:

[momof23goats]

Mom your right people need to know what a good goat looks like. A little time educating yourself in correct confirmation would go a long way. Ive had papered does that looked pretty but didnt milk squat or had problems kidding. but I have also had great papered does as well. The best doe I had was from a commercial dairy who was a LaMancha Toggenberg cross.

Their is a case to be made for a closed herd, but if you know the state of care where a breeding buck is I think you can remain safe. I am looking at cost/care of yet one more animal. I had two registered bucks, but I was breeding and showing then. Now I would be looking at providing my family with milk and meat at the least cost. To care for the animal properly - good feed vet care ect.. is not a small amount of money. I think that most looking at getting into goats would be in the same boat as me I hate to see someone getting animals when they dont understand the costs associated with them. You only need the buck for a few days a year with a couple of does :shock: The rest of the time he is just hanging out eating, dreaming about those few days:mrgreen:


all good points you make, however, NO one around me has bucks, or even goats, so for me I must keep a buck, or be out of luck. so I keep a buck.

[joyce1954]

i have a question (sorry for the thread drift), actually two. why do you need to keep the bucks away from the does? why does this make the flavor "off"?


Billy goats are pretty stinky, especially when they are with the females. they have a VERY STRONG musky odor that permiates everything including the milk. they are ill-mannered with where they pee in an effort to mark a female as theirs and it just makes the milk smell and taste bad. so serious dairy people keep the bucks seperate from the does until it is time to breed.

Also, the other point that I have not seen mentioned is the fact that goat is right tasty. Yes, you can freshen your nanny by breeding, but don't be a faint heart or you will end up with a zillion babies that you 'just couldn't eat or sell'. Goats are two sources of food. The dairy and the meat.

Goat is in the mutton family of taste, but the meat is red like antelope or deer. and is good cooked just about anyway you can think of, stew, roast, steak, and yes ground.

[Trasael Adnepos]

Yep, Joyce. Yummy. We have dwarf Nigerian Nubies and Saanen, (good quantity and quality milk, good cheese, tolerant of cold climate), but the Saanen does are getting mixed with full-sized Nubian from a very nice clean line this year, and I hope to have a buck off that with my very large pure bred Saanen doe to keep. I agree that the buck should not be in with the milk goats, but you'll need a wether to keep him company if you isolate him, and they are herd animals. Bucks are nasty critters in rut, for the reasons stated. Yes, you should dominate them early on. They can breed very early, too, so be aware of that if you just let them all run in pasture. You can eat the wether and replace him now and again. I may have missed it, but you should shave the udder regularly on your milkers, to keep it sweet, and diet is everything to milk. Letting a doe eat any pine can cause miscarriage, but other evergreens don't seem to be a problem. If you pasture your milkers on acreage, such things as ferns and some other plants can ruin the taste of the milk, so know what is in your woods, and cross fence accordingly. Rhododendron is deadly to goats, and holly is toxic, so do your homework. You are going to spend some money on feed, especially in winter, so figure it in, and get it stored. BEFORE you get goats, figure out how you are going to shelter them, and make sure they have high and dry places to stand and hang out.

Remember that anywhere horses have been for 25 years has tetanus, so don't mix your stock if you can help it.

I consider the girls pets. They are affectionate, playful and interesting critters, often jesters, and I wish everyone I knew was always that glad to see me. :lol:

Tras

Oh, and if you're in or around farm country, somebody is always getting rid of goats, (or used to be), who was going to do the "Green Acres" thing but found out they didn't like to work for their food, so search the ads. I got two pure bred Saanen a while back for $50, and a nice Nubian free.

Edit to add:

Belle, I forgot to thank you for that wonderful testimony of God's goodness to your son. It reminded me of the year my youngest brother was born when mother almost died, and he had a defective stomach valve which caused projectile vomiting. The doctors said he would need surgery, but he thrived on our goat's milk, and is a healthy fifty-something today.

[LittleRedHen]

Very good info here from experienced raisers of goats. Goat milk is wonderful, and tastes best when straight from filtering after milking, when still warm from the goat. It's easily digested by people with intolerance to cow's milk. Colicky babies enjoy it. Like human milk, goat milk is a sensitive indicator of the health of the environment. Sources of fallout like the 1950s Nevada bomb tests caused some downwinders' exposure to increase 10-fold through goat milk.* Just something to think about and not to sound alarmist, because we can't control being exposed to radiation and chemicals to some degree no matter where we live and no matter what food/drink we consume. Feed goats the cleanest, best quality feed you can afford, and the milk will taste sweet and delicious. (Don't feed them onions unless you want onion milk!)

*Montana Cancer Control Section, Quarterly Surveillance Report, April 2006, Volume 2006, Number 2

[Carol]

We are planning a place of refuge/sanctuary. Goats have been in the back of my mind for a while now. I've never been around them, so it would be a whole new ball game for me. I have questions/concerns. (by the way the advice here has been wonderful!!). In current times, one has money and access to vets. What if the time should come when one no longer can do this? Everyone knows goats eat grass...but what if you can't get grain? People have been raising goats for hundreds of yrs. without store bought grain...but what did they do to supplement their diets? What naturopathic ideas would you use if they were sick? (worst case scenario). I've wondered the same w/chickens or any other type animal. self sufficiency/survival depends on taking care of everything yourself. If I sound a bit "green" it's because I am. I live in a subdivision at present, but as already stated, am planning on a place...off the road...off the road...off the road :razz: . My grandparents had a lg. farm...cows, chickens, lg. gardens, fruit trees. So I do have limited knowledge. I say limited due to the fact I haven't raised any farm animals of my own. This brings up a lot of cherished memories...:razz: I can hear my grandpa calling 'ol Pete his mule. I'd greatly appreciate any info, esp. related to how to care for animals (particularly goats) if one has no access to grains or vet care.

[alpha]

Carol, relative to herbal remedies etc. as well as general goat care and maintenance, visit Fiasco Farm's web site and look around a bit. http://fiascofarm.com/goats/index.htm

They have great information and recipes for cheese too!

[LittleRedHen]

Carol, that website Alpha posted is a good one. You can grow your own feed for goats, you don't have to depend on buying feed. Goats are hardy, ideal for self-sufficiency. They will thrive on weeds and brush and you can grow your own grains for them, or supplement with winter squashes and such. We used to store our pumpkins and feed them to the goats all winter. We used to have seven month long snowy winters off grid and we and our friend would rely a lot on the stored roots/squashes/apples and so on for the animals. If you're totally non-electric, you can harvest with a scythe. We enjoyed doing that. It takes longer, but no motors to feed and maintain. One thing I'd recommend is to read about the dietary requirements of goats and then read all you can about herbs/forages for them that meet those requirements. It's true you can plant a permaculture of hardy forages for the goats, stuff they will eat in summer and stuff you'll store for them for the winter, and herbs you put up for them for when they are sick.

[Island Girl]

I learned early on that the milk needs to be cooled immediately to keep the taste sweet. So being a new, slow and inexperienced milker, I came up with a solution that works for me.

I took a large stainless steel soup pan and placed the stainless steel milking pail in the center of it. Then I put masking tape on the sides of the pail and taped it to the soup pan. I filled the space in between with ice water. The masking tape keeps the pail from floating to the top and bobbing on the water like a boat without a keel.

My milk is cooled instantly when it hits the cool pail. It really helped me when I was learning how to milk one awful, rebellious goat. I also put it in the freezer for 15 minutes after I filter it.

I can't imagine going back to store bought cow's milk after tasting the wonderful Neubian milk I get twice a day. :-D

[LibertyInNH]

Those of you with goats...

Hubby and I have been talking about goats for a while now. We have lots of overgrown brushy acreage, which would seem perfect for goat pasture. We've been working on improving the fencing (especially after reading momof23goats' stories about Clyde! I don't plan on bucks, but if one goat can do it...) around the place, and I recently tossed the idea of milking them at my hubby.

Everything I have read... I have no first hand experience... says that milk is milk. Goat milk, cow milk... no real difference. Hubby has no first hand experience either, but his mom has him convinced that goat milk is one of the nastiest substances ever created... one step above poison in a glass. I don't know if she has actually tasted it, or if it's an untested opinion.

So what can you tell me? I want to find someone close by and try the milk myself... but until then, what do y'all have to say?

My children were given RAW goat's milk from a church family's farm, and we intend on doing the same for the next. My wife nursed, but we also use the goat milk to supplement.

The kids loved it, and the younger one (3) still prefers it to cow milk. It's completely raw, the only thing to consider would be the difference in taste depending on the animal and the feed, since it's not homogenized. My children can tell the difference, and we let our supplier know which goat(s) to milk for us.

I was never worried about being super-clean. Obviously lacking mother's milk a baby will not get the same immune system benefits, but the goat milk - RAW - have I emphasized RAW enough :grin: - will be a good supplement. We've become too clean. I'm a firm believer in children, even babies, getting and staying dirty for a day. My children are very healthy and intelligent as a result.

[luvmyvet]

Babysteps,

I wanted goats for milk, and to learn cheesemaking, etc, I had tasted goats milk and liked it, but my husband had never had it before....
if he liked it we would get some goat's, if it was "nasty" that would probably kill the chance of getting dairy goats.

We visited a friend's dad who raises Nubians to see if we may want to buy and raise them, they had some fresh cold milk and offered us to try some.

I tasted the milk first to make sure it didn't have any off flavor, and then handed him a glass full of ice cold goat's milk and held my breath while he took a sip with a scrunched up look on his face, lol..... he loved it!

that was 4 month's ago and we are now up to 8 goats...

Happy Birthday to any Marines out there too!

Luvmyvet

[grower]

Everyone knows goats eat grass...

Goats don't eat grass. They are browsers, like deer. They eat leafy plants, flowers, vines, twigs....Right now, while you have the money to choose your options, I recommend you plant sustainable forage for your animals. Grain increases milk production, but is not necessary for a goat to thrive.

We bought a Kiko doe (meat goat) from An Peischel, who is an expert on meat goats and on goat forage. She says one acre of good mixed browse can sustain 2 adult goats, if they have nothing else to eat. If you are planting your own, I recommend a mix of lespedeza, white clover, chicory and orchard grass, with a little alfalfa and grass thrown in. If you have a good, overgrown, bushy field, that will probably do, since the goats will know what's good to eat and what's not. As long as you don't allow them to overgraze, they won't generally eat poisonous or unhealthy plants.

Regarding the taste of goatsmilk, a lot of old-timers have a poor opinion of goatsmilk, because what they drank was taken straight out of a herd of bush goats that ran with the bucks and ate whatever was available. Garbage in, garbage out. If you're careful with your goats' diet and sanitation, you generally won't have any problem with the taste. I LOVE goatsmilk!

[momof23goats]

We are planning a place of refuge/sanctuary. Goats have been in the back of my mind for a while now. I've never been around them, so it would be a whole new ball game for me. I have questions/concerns. (by the way the advice here has been wonderful!!). In current times, one has money and access to vets. What if the time should come when one no longer can do this? Everyone knows goats eat grass...but what if you can't get grain? People have been raising goats for hundreds of yrs. without store bought grain...but what did they do to supplement their diets? What naturopathic ideas would you use if they were sick? (worst case scenario). I've wondered the same w/chickens or any other type animal. self sufficiency/survival depends on taking care of everything yourself. If I sound a bit "green" it's because I am. I live in a subdivision at present, but as already stated, am planning on a place...off the road...off the road...off the road :razz: . My grandparents had a lg. farm...cows, chickens, lg. gardens, fruit trees. So I do have limited knowledge. I say limited due to the fact I haven't raised any farm animals of my own. This brings up a lot of cherished memories...:razz: I can hear my grandpa calling 'ol Pete his mule. I'd greatly appreciate any info, esp. related to how to care for animals (particularly goats) if one has no access to grains or vet care.

well, I do not grain them when not preggers ,or milking .the males only get grain when in with the females, and no goats don't eat grass, they browse like deer.
I have a big enough place, that I could let mine range, if I wanted to , for allot of the year, and grow hay, and corn for the winter, along with maple leaves, and such. and wild berry vines, and wild grape vines, in the fields,
and they would do fine.
but I keep my 4 does in a 1/2 acre pen .which is plenty big enough for them. I want them close to the house.

but I could be a Shepard, or take the dogs out with them, and pasture them easy enough.
keeping goats is easy, if you learn from a proper goat person.

and I do feed them hay, and when milking or preggers grain.grow ya some wheat, and corn, and you will do fine. or even oats.

I to keep bucks, they are kind and sweet. I had one then clyde jr was born. he is a mix of Nubian and Nigerian dwarf = ==== kinder, yes he is a kinder, and so is his sister.
I really didn't want to keep them but I do have them , so the male is put in with the buck now, and they are friends.
the girl is with the does. kinders have a wonderful rich milk.
I give my gals bo se, it is from the vet, but you can give them selium capsule once a week, and vitamin e capsules. they keep a very long time. I also use vet strength vitamins.
yes, it works wonders. but you can buy them at the farm store. for a few goats, you can buy you several bottles of the liquid vitamins, and wormer, and store them in the bottom of your fridge. they keep a long time.
I have several boxes of carmel flavored womens vitamins also I cold give them for treats.
there are many different ways to get around it in a pinch.

some people feed them soy, but not me, I am allergic to it, and don't want it coming through the milk, and I think soy, gives the milk an off flavor.
mostly keep your water-er clean, give them a nice small building, or stall, with good straw to lay on , and hay , they will be fine.
now in the middle east, they feed them fruit and veggies. and almost no hay at all.
only what the poor goat can find.
and their goats live as long as ours, now milk production is most likey not as high.
depends on what state you live in also, as to what they can graze on. but most generally, goats do wonderful.

[Ms. American]

Keep them out of the scrub oaks too. Makes for strong, bitter milk.

I miss my goat. "Dizzie" the Nubian, was the only one we had at that time, but I had free ranging gees and chickens, a dog and several cats so she THOUGHT she was part of a herd, especially since we all went for a walk every day lol!

She had absolutely the WRONG kind of tits, They were big, wide and long, but they made great handles for ME who was a novice at milking at first. She put out a gallon and a half a day for the 2 years I owned her. When she kidded, she tripleted.

In winter, I had to keep bagbalm on her udders to help prevent frost bite, and had to watch her for barb wire gouges due to her size. I too milked her in my kitchen. There was no point in me walking to the barn in the wind and freezing myself half to death, when she was willing to come into the house!

I sold her milk 20 years ago for $3.50 a quart. Surely it's worth more now! I made cheeses, yogurt, even a strawberry cream cheese type soft cheese for the toast. I used her milk in my coffee, for cooking, and any older excess went to the rest of the animals including the turkeys and rabbits.

In my neck of the woods, alfalfa hey was the feed of choice for horses, cattle and rabbits as well as goats and sheep. So, that's what she got. Sweet smelling alfalfa, and her milk was beautiful!

Goats don't come with pre-pasturized milk. Pasturization is the process of heating to kill germs. They do however have naturally HOMOGENIZED milk which means that the butter fat doesn't float to the top like cow's milk does. It's well mixed with the milk.

I handled both goat's milk and cow's milk the same way. I filtered the milk (with layers of cheese cloth) into a large enamel or stainless steel container, plunged it into ice water and stirred the milk. When it was chilled very quickly till ice cold in that ice water (a little icecream salt in the water helps chill things faster). I then poured the chilled milk into sterile canning jars, dated it and put in frige. It would begin to get a little sharp after 4-5 days which is why I always dated it, so I could tell them apart and rotate my stock.

Grazing the goats on scrub brush is fine while they're young, and as long as you aren't milking. But, because of the idividual breed variations, scrub is likely to eventually taint the milk. I like the idea of letting them clean out the scrub, but then replace it with 'good stuff' as mentioned in one of the above posts. If you can acquire good clover hay or alfalfa hay for winter forage, then consider that too.

If you are going to have any kind of grain around in containers, MAKE SURE they are behind closed, locked doors AND have good locking lids. If the goats can get at it, they WILL and they can bind themselves up good and tight. Therefore, one emergency med to keep on hand is a hose, and some mineral oil. Learn how to properly use both.

When choosing your goat, aside from all the 'proper' things to look for such as confirmation, and teat placements, pick on who is friendly toward you. Sometimes it works better when the goat picks the owner :)

As mentioned, you can get unregistered goats, junk goats, registered good goats etc...
If you have the money to pick from registered stock with a well kept history, do. I say this because it costs just as much money to feed unpredictible stock as it does to feed good stock. If you have children of your own, then your stock becomes a good choice for 4-H projects which have potential to win money to off set your costs. Kids can learn much about planning, organizing, teaching, rearing, and caring for animals, as well as what it takes to make money. Those shows canbecome an invaluable tool for networking with other people, to sell goat products as well as the off spring. It just depends on what it is you want to do. And yes, you CAN get good unregistered stock just to keep the grounds scrub free, and a few extra jars of milk as a bonus. There's nothing wrong with that either.

I've tried to include a few things that weren't mentioned in the other posts. I hope that if you should decide to get goats, that you enjoy them as much as we all have.

Best of luck to you!