Are puppies wise right now?

[Limner]

Tha ambitious bit of canine activity on my avitar picture above is Paddy. She is a five year old English Mastiff, purebred but not registered. She is also a bit shy, except when she knows you---and then the demands for the 24/7 tummy rubs begin. ESP when she is feeling hormonal, like now. She is in heat; she started her "show" yesterday, I never got her "fixed," because I thought we might breed her and the horror stories of Mastiff reactions to some antesthisias....

The only Mastiff we have locally is a not too impressive lanky male down the road. I got to thinking---if it was a survival situation, a cross might be useful. Our other dog is a Rottie cross; his brain is ALL Rottie, which means we had a tussle when he was young because he wanted to be Alpha. But once we got that across he has turned into an amazingly bright and accomodating dog.But he's neutered....so he can't be the Daddy. Our neighbor has a healthy nice Rottie male, and Iam thinking about taking Paddy over to see him for a meaningful one night stand. I don't know of too many folks who will ahve the $$ for a purebed....but a useful protective dog would be a good thing to have.

I have about a week to think about this...I might be totally off my thinking here. Let me know what you think. mastiffs have LARGE litters and they can eat you out of house and home....but they can be soooo sweet.

[Beaners]

Unless you already have homes lined up for a dozen puppies, I wouldn't do it. Even people that want big dogs right now can barely afford them and tons of people are giving big dogs away. Big dogs are a lot more expensive to maintain, and not many people can afford that cost right now. They would be good dogs to have around, but not feasible for most people to feed.

Right now, so many people are losing their homes, either because they can't afford rent, or can't afford their mortgage. They can't bring their dogs with them wherever they are going, and the dogs end up at the shelter, or dumped, or put down.

Honestly, there is no lack of dogs in this country. There are plenty of good dogs out there, big dogs, medium sized dogs, small dogs, and lots of them without vices. A mastiff/rott cross is going to be a hard puppy to find a home for. It is going to be an even harder dog to find a new home for as an adolescent or adult dog, particularly if the first owner didn't know how to train the dog. And the large breed dogs tend to attract a lot of people who want the puppy, but can't handle it once it hits that goofy adolescent stage. If you aren't going to be willing to take back all of those dogs and have more than a dozen very large dogs at your house, go for it. Otherwise...there is a good chance that the majority of the puppies from the litter will be put to sleep at a shelter within three years.

My opinion is slightly skewed by the fact that I have picked up dogs from high-kill shelters to place in new homes. I have seen tons of purebred and mixed breed dogs that would have been great family pets or farm dogs put to sleep because no one wanted them. There were some dogs with behavioral issues, but there were plenty of "good" dogs too. I'm not the kind of person who would expect to be able to show up at someone's house at any time unannounced to "check up" on a dog, and I don't think a dog needs a huge fenced yard to be happy, or any of the other silly stuff a lot of rescues and shelters are known for. I just don't like to see good dogs killed because there are too many dogs out there.

I'm not anti-breeding, particularly if there is a reason for breeding the dogs. But I just don't see this as being a particularly strong need.

Kayleigh

[Limner]

Thanks, Kayleigh! I appreciate the input.

[TruthSeeker]

Limner,
I'm facing a canine situation..... I'm away from home right now and my husbands sister (where I'm staying) is trying to send her golden retriever home with me..... before I left home my neighbor was trying to give me a white german shepherd ..... I already have a german shepherd and a great pyrenees. ?? I'm thinking the more dogs the better in terms of property protection... home alarm(barking) system.... ?? HOWEVER you dfinitely have to consider feeding them if you can't find homes...

BTW... Casting Crowns is my favorite band :)

[Freeholder]

I've been half considering adding a large (-er) dog to our household, as the two I have are good watchdogs but not good for protection. But with the economy the way it is right now, I'm not too sure about it. I think I agree with Kayleigh that now is probably not a really good time to breed a large litter of large puppies. Maybe in a year or two or three (although your female is likely to be getting a bit old for a first litter). I suspect what will happen is that the dog population will decrease drastically (along with all other pets); the human population is probably also going to decrease, possibly drastically. Then when things stabilize a little (and people figure out how they are going to feed their families), but crime is still high, people will be looking for good guard dogs. Then would be the time to breed your female if she's not too old at that point.

Kathleen

[Peter]

Please forgive if off topic, I am considering a German Shepard and am wondering the following:

1) Would a dog from a pound still be trainable? Not only from obedience standpoint but also have the family loyalty that would make it a dependable protector as well? Understood that if previously abused all bets are off however if you can read the doggy language it it seems to be relatively happy, bright etc.
2) Based on bulk Costco type dog food purchases, what is monthly expense going to be for a big doggie?

Any and all insight appreciated. 8)

Thanks much,

Peter

[Limner]

Limner,
I'm facing a canine situation..... I'm away from home right now and my husbands sister (where I'm staying) is trying to send her golden retriever home with me..... before I left home my neighbor was trying to give me a white german shepherd ..... I already have a german shepherd and a great pyrenees. ?? I'm thinking the more dogs the better in terms of property protection... home alarm(barking) system.... ?? HOWEVER you dfinitely have to consider feeding them if you can't find homes...

BTW... Casting Crowns is my favorite band :)

We'll be getting another dog soon too---a search and rescue German Shepherd, for Hubby's work. You're right, they do eat a bunch....but there are alot of folks who won't even step into our yard because we have such big dogs. So they DO make folks think twice!

[just me]

I think you could figure food based on what the Mastiff eats. The ones I have seen aren't small dogs.

As for a dog from a pound, I don't know. We have a dump dog (someone dumped him here) and he is 1/2 German Shepherd and part Lab and maybe part something else and is not protective or exceptionally bright (too much Lab I think). I think a lot would depend on the dog and how well it bonds to you and the breed.

[Limner]

Thanks, Kathleen. I would image that would be the prudent choice....doggone it anyway....

[Freeholder]

Please forgive if off topic, I am considering a German Shepard and am wondering the following:

1) Would a dog from a pound still be trainable? Not only from obedience standpoint but also have the family loyalty that would make it a dependable protector as well? Understood that if previously abused all bets are off however if you can read the doggy language it it seems to be relatively happy, bright etc.
2) Based on bulk Costco type dog food purchases, what is monthly expense going to be for a big doggie?

Any and all insight appreciated. 8)

Thanks much,

Peter

Peter, adopted dogs often love their new family even more than their old family for some reason (without anthropomorphisizing --sp! -- it's hard to know what's really going on inside an animal's brain). If the dog seems to like you and you like it, then it's worth giving it a chance.

I would not feed the cheapest dog food available, though. I tried that with my two last winter, and regretted it. It took a while of feeding a decent dog food again to get them back to looking healthy. I'm not talking about top-of-the-line dog food. The one I buy is called Nutra Nuggets; it's their lamb and rice formula (don't feed dogs anything with grain, especially corn, as the first ingredient). A few years ago I could get a forty pound bag of it for under $17; now it's running around $23. One bag, stretched with kitchen scraps and offal from butchering rabbits, plus an occasional raw egg or some raw goat milk, lasts my two large dogs for a month. I need to do more 'stretching' and use less dog food, actually. (One of my dogs weighs about 45 lbs., the other is around seventy or so. I think most German Shepherds will run about the same size as my big male, or a little bigger.)

Kathleen

[Peter]

Thanks Kathleen!

[Bad Hand]

The cheap dog food is really bad for your dog and will cost you more in the long run. I have Alaskan Huskies which are mutts, mine are Siberian, Grey Hound, Whippet, Border Collie and Coyote. They average 50 lbs but are tall 26 to 28 inches at the shoulder. I feed Black Gold dog food as they are working dogs and I use them to run my trap lines in the winter. It takes less good quality dog food to feed your dog than the cheap stuff which is mainly corn that the dogs can't digest (it is a filler). After having at one time 120 sled dogs I learned a lot about dog food.

I wouldn't suggest breeding puppies right now because of the economy. I have people asking me if I am going to bred my dogs (they want to buy a puppy) but not now. I want to make sure I can afford to feed and care for them in case some don't sell. It isn't just food there are shots and a lot of other expenses you have to think about before breeding a litter.

[twister]

Limner,

We use to have two english mastiffs....Just the sight of them would scare people away...They are wonderful, loving gentle giants...

[251bravo]

Limner,
I'm facing a canine situation..... I'm away from home right now and my husbands sister (where I'm staying) is trying to send her golden retriever home with me..... before I left home my neighbor was trying to give me a white german shepherd ..... I already have a german shepherd and a great pyrenees. ?? I'm thinking the more dogs the better in terms of property protection... home alarm(barking) system.... ?? HOWEVER you dfinitely have to consider feeding them if you can't find homes...

BTW... Casting Crowns is my favorite band :)Great point there..i have although going cracy...over the Holidays gave my wife two calico kittens+having a toy doxin..not a good combo:-D

[RENMAN358]

THANK YOU for this GREAT thread folks!!!!

Yes, pound pups can be nurtured in to GOOD family kids.
It takes lots of time, lots of attention, and realizing that
trust doesnt just happen ,it must be built.

Just like my latest buddy,a CHEK shepard , who we raised
from a pup.Very smart, very independant, and very much a kid.
He stands over me when i stoke the stove, and inspects every
piece of wood that goes on the fire.

I spend at least 2 hrs a day training and exercising him.
He's 2 yrs old and loves every minute.

[BoldBeliever]

Puppies are always wise if you can afford them. The loyalty and love you receive from a good dog is priceless.

[Jbuck]

Any thoughts on protection training for a dog?
My DS has a young German Shepard (6 months old) that he wants to put into protection training through a level ll. He WILL train with the dog.
The dog is showing very strong traits of being a very protective dog around strangers.
DS is a drilling engineer on a rig and there is one "hand" on the rig the dog is leery of. Whenever this individual comes around his trailer, the dog will growl and get between DS and the "hand". Come to find out the "hand" is an ex-con. Apparently there is something the dog does not like about him. The dog does not growl at anyone else. However when you approach DS the dog will get between him and the person approaching DS.

[RENMAN358]

What i can share from personal experience is that ALL the shepards ,
that have chosen me ,have that trait in common. The dog is right there
blocking the path between random visitor and MOM. I call it posturing,
but it is a desirable protective trait.

Our latest pup , received obedience training only. But he still exhibits
the very protective traits . It may be that this is a breed trait. However,
we seen this in some other breeds as well.

The other consideration is that an individual dog may display breed behaviour,
but each one is still unique , with their very own personality.

Obedience training alone is a real wake up call in understanding how
a pup communicates and what body language says to the pup.

The first year, is training crucial. But training never stops.

[Caplock50]

You all may not like this response very much, but I do think it needs to be said. We, here in America, are the only ones who think it is wrong and/or gross. If it really gets bad out there, dog meat is very edible. And young dogs have a very tender meat.

Another thought to consider...pets being turned loose and going 'feral'. People are already abandoning their pet dogs. Some are just dumping them in the country. These will form packs and 'go wild'. If your 'home pack' is as large as or larger than the wild pack, they will leave your place alone...more or less. These 'dogs gone wild' will have absolutely no fear of man. They once associated man 'with' food. Wild, they will associate man 'as' food. Also, feral dog packs will either kill off or run off the natural game in the area, so yes, consider the thought of 'dog as food' because they *will* be the most aboundant 'meat' in the local areas.

[bluetick]

I have three German Shepherds. Two are three+ year old neutered males, and the third is a five month old to-be-spayed-soon female. One of the males is a rescue that spent pretty much the first year of his life in a cage/crate and was not socialized. The other male lived in his breeder's home as a very young pup, but was sharing a kennel run with another GSD when I adopted him.

I have adopted adult GSD's for several years, and have never had a problem bonding with them. They are very alert and very protective of me. The rescue needs a firm hand when I want to let people in the house, but the other two warm up to people quickly when they see I want to allow them inside. I keep the rescue on a leash with a prong collar when most people come in - just to be on the safe side. He is fine with me and loves belly rubs!

I think GSD's are great dogs and plan to never be without at least one! I feed mine Canidae dog food - a little more expensive, but a pretty good food.

[BoldBeliever]

You all may not like this response very much, but I do think it needs to be said. We, here in America, are the only ones who think it is wrong and/or gross. If it really gets bad out there, dog meat is very edible. And young dogs have a very tender meat.

Another thought to consider...pets being turned loose and going 'feral'. People are already abandoning their pet dogs. Some are just dumping them in the country. These will form packs and 'go wild'. If your 'home pack' is as large as or larger than the wild pack, they will leave your place alone...more or less. These 'dogs gone wild' will have absolutely no fear of man. They once associated man 'with' food. Wild, they will associate man 'as' food. Also, feral dog packs will either kill off or run off the natural game in the area, so yes, consider the thought of 'dog as food' because they *will* be the most aboundant 'meat' in the local areas.

Or, you could gain the trust of such dogs and turn them into protection. Dogs respond to love with loyalty in most cases. They could also be trained to hunt wild game FOR you. They'll find such food, you can kill/process it. Better to have dogs on your side.

Cats will find game too. And cat tastes like chicken (j/k). Pet kitties like squirrel and birds. How good the meat will be after Mr. Man-kitty gets it is another matter.

[Caplock50]

BoldBeliever, if you are a member of a large enough group, then you can try it. But I don't recommend it. If the dog has eaten human flesh, then he can't be trusted. If he is the leader of the pack, he may fake it so as to get close enough to make an attack successful. As their leader, he is responsible for feeding them.

Search up a site called "Grandpappys". I believe he is the one who has the stories. He has had to face this 'feral' dog threat already, and it was back a few years ago...in the 'good times' too.

Retaming feral dogs I believe can be done. But in the times ahead, I won't have the time nor the patience needed to do the job. And I'll already have my own to worry over. I'll also have my hands full watching out for 'feral' humans. I don't want to divide my attention between them and a strange dog to my rear I'm trying to tame.

Edited to add:

Doctors and medical care will be scarce. You do not want to take any unnecessary chances of getting injured...especially with that kind.

[Amy]

You all may not like this response very much, but I do think it needs to be said. We, here in America, are the only ones who think it is wrong and/or gross. If it really gets bad out there, dog meat is very edible. And young dogs have a very tender meat.

Another thought to consider...pets being turned loose and going 'feral'. People are already abandoning their pet dogs. Some are just dumping them in the country. These will form packs and 'go wild'. If your 'home pack' is as large as or larger than the wild pack, they will leave your place alone...more or less. These 'dogs gone wild' will have absolutely no fear of man. They once associated man 'with' food. Wild, they will associate man 'as' food. Also, feral dog packs will either kill off or run off the natural game in the area, so yes, consider the thought of 'dog as food' because they *will* be the most aboundant 'meat' in the local areas.

That is a very good point. I would like to say I'd never ever eat dog meat, but you know what? You get hungry enough, those standards go right out the door. :sad:

Also, you are absolutely right--Packs of dogs can be incredibly dangerous, and your point that they will associate "us" as food is spot on. When I was a kid, I grew up in the boondocks and we had a neighbor who had a pack of beagles to run deer with. He turned them out on my Grampa's spread all the time without permission. Needless to say, my Grampa was furious b/c it meant we had no deer and there were a couple of times we kids had some really scarey encounters with them and if we hadn't had our dogs (St. Bernard/German Shepherd mix, Irish Wolfhound, and Retriever) I am not sure what would have happened. Cute little beagles! Who'd have thought! :shock: That pack mentality is scary stuff. (Even scarier when it's of the human variety, though!)

[Caplock50]

Think on the meaning of the word 'pack'. And how it relates to hunting and defensive actions. If you are ever faced by a pack of 10 dogs; nine of them are *not* going to sit idlely by while one attacks you. They all will hit and will try to do it at the exact same time. Also, as the cowboys used to say about the indians, "If you see one, then there are at least 5 hiding in the brush."

[marsgate]

Spot on. Eat em if you need to folks. We are buying a cross bow next. Won't rouse the neighbors if you know what I mean.
bytheby..
I have had plenty of dogs around and the toughest that have owned was a German Shepard.
He saved me several times. Twenty five some years ago. But the man still has my respect.

[Limner]

That is a very good point. I would like to say I'd never ever eat dog meat, but you know what? You get hungry enough, those standards go right out the door. :sad:

Also, you are absolutely right--Packs of dogs can be incredibly dangerous, and your point that they will associate "us" as food is spot on. When I was a kid, I grew up in the boondocks and we had a neighbor who had a pack of beagles to run deer with. He turned them out on my Grampa's spread all the time without permission. Needless to say, my Grampa was furious b/c it meant we had no deer and there were a couple of times we kids had some really scarey encounters with them and if we hadn't had our dogs (St. Bernard/German Shepherd mix, Irish Wolfhound, and Retriever) I am not sure what would have happened. Cute little beagles! Who'd have thought! :shock: That pack mentality is scary stuff. (Even scarier when it's of the human variety, though!)

YUP. And it gets really scary when they start breeding with coyotes....they have all the instincts of the wild animal and NO fear of humans. We're just part of the food chain. I stood on the front porch a week or so back and listed to the coyotes in the hills. NOT a sound you would normally associate with Indiana.

[Amy]

Spot on. Eat em if you need to folks. We are buying a cross bow next. Won't rouse the neighbors if you know what I mean.
bytheby..
I have had plenty of dogs around and the toughest that have owned was a German Shepard.
He saved me several times. Twenty five some years ago. But the man still has my respect.

I got my German Shepherd/St. Bernard puppy when I was three or four years old. He was my best friend growing up. I couldn't depend much on my family, but that dog was right there through thick and thin. He fished me out of a pond once when I was probably ten or eleven. Scared some jackass off who tried to force his way into my car when I was sixteen (dummy didn't know my dog was in the back seat. Gotta admit, the look on his face was priceless). Yeah, he was tough. Think size of a St. Bernard but looking just like a H-U-G-E German Shepherd. Nobody could touch me without him taking them down. My dog died New Years Eve, 1990. I still miss him. :cry: