anyone with goats, need help with sick yearling

[Kettle Farm]

have a yearling doe, alpine/nubian mix. got too cold and is now dehydrated. still pooping but weak. up all day and night. gave some molasses water and injected room temp salt water 20 cc in shoulders.
no LR. DH had to go to work. here with the boy and me and mess of other critters. very healthy goat thus far, had since last june with no problems and all shots, etc given.
what i can see is i have to get fluids in. she is in the house with me. kitchen for warmth then moved to living room, is on a rug for balance.
i think i can save her if i can figure out what to do next. tended horses and others animals through many trials, but not goats as of yet.
DH can do IV but won't be home till tomorrow a.m.

[goatlady]

Went through something similar lat fall with a doe. She was so heavily infested with worms she was literally dying of anemia. The vet gave her a high-powered wormer and vitamin B12 shot and I had to worm her again 3 days later. Took her 3 weeks to get back to normal. You need to figure out WHY she won't drink. How is her breathing? Goays get pneumonia and upper respiratory infections real easily and she MAY need antibiotics. Better call and get your vet's suggestions, gal. Check her gums and inner eyelids - if they are pale,not real pink she is anemic.

[Kettle Farm]

thank you goatlady
gums and eyelids wet, eyes good. skin snaps back. no breathing problems, wormed well. from what i can see she got too cold. the salt water helped and heading out to see what i can get. she did poop and pee again. all the towels have had it. but she is standing and seems better. left message with vet. man i am exhausted. some would say just put these babies down but i can't do it. will keep you updated?
thank you!

[Yooper]

Kettlefarm,

Are her eyelids pink inside? A good salmon color? If so, then anemia shouldn't be a concern just now. My thought would be the start of pneumonia. We lost one last weekend due to the fluctuating temps. What is her temperature?
Good call on moving her indoors! If it were mine, I'd give Banamine 1cc/100 lb. SQ, Bio-mycin 5cc/100 lb. SQ and Bo-Se 1cc/40 lb. SQ.
The three "B's" will combat any bug starting to grow. Penicillin from the feed store will work as well. In a weakened state, you want to ward off anything from taking over her system.
Is she eating anything? Nibbling at hay? Do you hear rumen sounds? Does poop look normal? If she is not interested in hay, then nutridrench for energy and probios to keep her rumen going would be in order.
Let us know how she's doing, OK?
Darlene

[Sprocket]

One thing is with all mammals including humanoids, goats etc... resist the urge to warm or cool very rapidly. Extremes can induce some cray cardiac arrythmias. Warm her slowly and watch for respiratory distress.

[Sprocket]

sorry that was crazy...not cray arrthymias

[Kettle Farm]

thank you all so much! well i went to feed store, 6 degrees out so had to drive looking out front window till frost was off..but its all deserted dirt roads. feed store new hours so don't open for 1.5 hours. drive into town, 26 miles, sweating with worry, TSC open! get load of stuff (thank god for tax refund). got back and she had pooped again, looks normal. she is crunching crud in mouth, rumen sounds there but faint.
all membranes good (i am emt, but animals a little different, yes on the passive re-warming), gave her shot of B and Pen, got 1.5 qts of re-absorb (similar to LR) in her slow, got nipple for this, have to go slowly as she won't suck, also got about 8 oz milk replacement in.
very slowly. now going to let her stay in warm kitchen and sleep.
no P since last night. but was wondering if she won't as she is in house? silly question i guess.
hey thank you all for your help. i am just praying i don't TKO her, and God performs a miracle. Dh and I've nursed/intubated/tubed draft horses, dogs, pups, cats, even chickens but last goat we had were no issues. these are good champion bloodlines from known family, so have to try to save her if i can..plus you know, these babies count on us.

son up to help tend all other critters, bring in feeds and make pot of coffee. every kid in my house always knew how to brew a pot of coffee before they could write their name.

*grins*

man i am beat. husband says to me other day.."there is only one clean towel, i require two"..
with my mouth hanging open i reply, "i require chocolate, a bubble bath, and a husband who picks up after himself..but we both know, that ain't happening.."

hehehe

[momof23goats]

I would give her wormer also, abouit 2ccs if Ivomec. get at tjhe farm store. and inject it, in the shoulder, .
Now don't give milk replacer, if she is a yearold. but do give her yogurt, if you can, just a couple of spoonfulls to get jher rummin going. or a small vup of it. and repeat later in the day. offer hay. and let her eat that, she dosn't really need any thing else. but the hay.
now give water as she wants, since you got a quart of reabsorb down her, that is good.
I would also give her a shot of bo se. get it from the vet. she should have this once every three months. now worm her now, and in 3 days worm her again. than again in a week. and you should be ok.
good luck , and let us know.

[Kettle Farm]

wormed her 2 months ago, should i do so again?
she does seem to be improving. but she won't eat or drink by self, but will if i hand feed her. just some pellets (1 at a time) and a few small pieces of celery.
she is standing too. and can walk around. not so this morning.

[Stanb999]

Minerals????

Does she get enough copper? If your giving a sheep and goat type feed or mineral she isn't.
Also I'd give some probiotics and a bit a baking soda, if you've upped her grain for some reason.
Lastly I'd look at the mineral that she is getting to see if she is getting enough selenium.
You should give her a b12 shot as well.

[Kettle Farm]

yes did the B shot. they have block, etc. they were thriving up until this past few days. just too long cold winter. she is up moving, took her to barn, had to carry but she walked around and perked back up once out there. brought her back inside though. i am struggling to stay awake. she just went to potty again, but still no P. she took another 6 oz of reabsorb also and she is fighting me so thats a good sign.
thank you everyone for your help. what would we do without eachother?

[Kettle Farm]

plus..they were getting very good hay and only small bit of grain when cold. then we ran out and had to buy. this hay has mold inside it off and on. i have no way to get anymore till tomorrow, but have a stash of leaves, etc.
will go tomorrow and get some better hay, even if its small bales.

[Stanb999]

plus..they were getting very good hay and only small bit of grain when cold. then we ran out and had to buy. this hay has mold inside it off and on. i have no way to get anymore till tomorrow, but have a stash of leaves, etc.
will go tomorrow and get some better hay, even if its small bales.

I could very well be the hay..
But I've given the herd real crappy hay with no ill results.

The thing I'd like to suggest is switching what you do when it's cold.
Hay=heat.. Feed them twice a day, once in the morning and once at night. When it's cold.
Grain is for energy and fitness. Give it to them every day if they seem thin, need the extra for birthing or milking, or if are losing fitness. Otherwise it isn't needed.

[Kettle Farm]

ok, i will do that! will go tomorrow and get better hay just for them.

your new babies are gorgeous!

goat went P..thank God for His miracle. silly i guess to get so excited but this morning she was nearly comatose. now she is pitching a fit when i try to give her any more fluids. still won't eat or drink on her own, leave her alone for awhile and see what happens. she is chewing cud, gave her some small pellets, tiny celery tips and tiny cantelope piece or 2. she is much more active.
if i didn't say so already..thank you all again!

oh i know you will have a blast with your new little ones! names yet?

[goatlady]

My vet has said CORN = heat! I always up their grain ration when the temps drop below freezing. KF, glad she is improving, jsut keep an eye on her as I know you will!

[momof23goats]

My vet has said CORN = heat! I always up their grain ration when the temps drop below freezing. KF, glad she is improving, jsut keep an eye on her as I know you will!
the hay will do it for sure. butI would give soem grain also. I never give my goats a mineral block, they don't eat them well at all. they should have loose minerals, you can get a bag of it, and it lasts a long time. I put on top of their grain.

[Kettle Farm]

thats pretty much what we were doing. the momma goat had grain while milking, then weaned her off afterward. but when it got so cold, starting giving them a bit to keep them warm.
i was putting ACV in grain and it really helped the milk production and pests. i am waiting to see when she will eat/drink on her own so i can put her back in barn. not taking any chances.

[momof23goats]

thats pretty much what we were doing. the momma goat had grain while milking, then weaned her off afterward. but when it got so cold, starting giving them a bit to keep them warm.
i was putting ACV in grain and it really helped the milk production and pests. i am waiting to see when she will eat/drink on her own so i can put her back in barn. not taking any chances.
OK what is AVC? make usre when you put her back ,there is plenty of bedding. thick bedding.

[Kettle Farm]

apple cider vinegar. put it in all animals water/grain. they like it and helps with pests. also upped the milk production. read it in countryside some years ago.

ok, she is active somewhat and alert but won't eat/drink on her own. what now?

[goatlady]

She probably has some sort of infection gal, better start antibiotics PDQ! OR she is so full of worms she can't eat and THAT can happen very quickly as I found out. some individual goats seem to be more prone to worms that others. Do call your vet and get some phone advice.

[Kettle Farm]

her temp has stayed normal. though i did worm her again. vet never called back. left 2 messages. she is doing all the bodily functions except eat/drink unless i feed her. she is active/alert. i tend to agree that worms may be a problem, and the cold. she was doing well up until we had the cold spell couple days ago. her momma is thriving.
i am so exhausted. DH's work partner raises goats and said pretty much what you all did and that he is having cold weather issues with his too.
she has no temp, no bloat, looks actually pretty good, all membranes pink and wet, no respiratory troubles, i can hear her rummens, and took a listen with scope and all sounds good. so i am praying that it is just worms and cold. i did the antibiotics also.
i'm out of ideas yall..
she likes my singing to her though..."you get a line and i'll get a pole honey.."

[dilligaf]

maybe you should try singin her a different tune .. something like "goatling roasting on an open fire "... tis what i do when all else fails... makes them ol hens start laying again right quick too:)

take you ear down to her tummy, first one side then the other, put the stethoscope on her side about where her rib cage ends and flick her side . It should sound like a small thumping sound. If it sounds like you are plinking on a tin can , then she may have bigger issues than what you are thinking.. Rare in a goat but it can happen... It is called displaced abomasum and it isnt a good sign. What does her breath smell like? If it is not goaty smelling and smells fruity, she has bigger issues as well.

Has she had a major feed change in the last week or so? Has she been tossed around and banged about perhaps? I am just tossing a few other ideas out there to get a better idea maybe of what you may be dealing with.

[Kettle Farm]

Hahahahahahahahaha

We Will Kill The Old Red Rooster When She Comes..

[Kettle Farm]

I Will Go Check Right Now

[Kettle Farm]

ok, checked her. did the listen, definetly not tin can, more like dull thump? breath is goat and celery. your talking about a sort of ketoacidosis type thing? for the fruity smell?
no bumping as of late. they are in barn and let out when its not too frigid. no change in feed except that moldy hay. one day i was gone and "un-named others" did not water them.
she is going potty, #1 and #2. no labored breathing. standing. looks sleepy but she has been awake all day.
???

[dilligaf]

ok, checked her. did the listen, definetly not tin can, more like dull thump? breath is goat and celery. your talking about a sort of ketoacidosis type thing? for the fruity smell?


good on the thump... that is how they are supposed to sound.

and yup the fruitloop breath is same as in humans pretty much, generally is an after kidding thing but on occasion it gets wonky.

Without seeing her up close and in person it is hard to say. I personally doubt its worms myself but i have been wrong before. I would hit her with a dose of antibiotics just in case and keep her on them and let her go the night n see how she is come morning.. She may just not be hungry tonight after all her doctoring today. . There really isnt a whole lot more that you can do short of taking her to a vet.

Do you have any comfrey available to you? If you do try giving her some of it , there is a sweet little tonic that can be made for her too if need be from it, but a sickly goat should just chew it right down..

good luck to you and your little one, i know how frustrating a sick critter can be when you cant figure out what is wrong with them to begin with... Its a shame they cant talk at times..

[Kettle Farm]

all i have on hand is pennicillian (sic) thats what i gave her. also a shot of B. gave her small dose about noon. should i do another? i thought of the enema but i'm afraid this would only increase the dehydration?
she does look tired, and she has walked around a little snooping. isn't used to being in house and away from momma.

going to take temp once more.

*******************************
temp normal. tried some more reabsorb. she spit it at me, said she'd had enough. gonna let her be and see what i got in the morning.

got 2- 4 week old pups, 2 dogs and 19 baby chicks in the house with me. plus the goat. and the boy here to help. he has done almost all outside animals and coal stove today. Lord bless him. ma is just beat.

[dilligaf]

I would go head with another dose of the penicillin n continue for the next few days 2x a day. I wouldnt do any more of the B though, of course thats just my opinion on the B , i have never used it on any of the critters. I look at it as though they are human, wouldnt give a person two doses of B in a day so wouldnt with the animals..

[Kettle Farm]

ok will do more Pen, early a.m., DH home by 7 so he can help a bit.
4 pots of coffee since last night. hehehe

i never say never..and learn something new every day. may it always be so..

thank you for the help.

[Kettle Farm]

morning all and thank you for the help yesterday. it is obvious to me where there are holes in my preps. while we have many livestock manuals, precious little on goats. so will get some books on that. and more preps for livestock illnesses too.

"jessie" the goat is out in the warm dry barn with her momma. she is bleating and walking around a bit. she got another shot of meds this morning and is still managing bodily functions quite well.
i am watching her from outside to see if she eats/drinks on her own.

started the clean up. rugs on the line, trash burnt, etc. son stayed up all night with her so i could get some sleep. cleaned up messes, etc. DH now home, so have some more help.

this reminds me of a woman i met few years ago who made the comment last year that she will just have to learn all this "homestead" stuff real quick if she needs to.
DH and i have been at this a good while, separately and then together, and believe me, we don't know it all. even with our library. the internet, our tools and so on, there is something to learn every day.
i would have to say that of all the animals we have ever had, chickens rate the easiest and cheapest with the best return.
thank you all again for your help! hope i didn't sound too goofy. i'm a diabetic and stress will throw that out of whack.

[goatlady]

Hey, gal you're doing real good - you kept the kid alive!!! You will find there are precious few good books on goat husbandry available. I have that expensive Goat Medicine and it's so technical it's usually not very helpful. I'm lucky my vet is extremely knowledgable about goats and there are LOTS of goat ranchers in my area with all kinds of help.

[Kettle Farm]

goatlady and everyone, thank you. jessie is still here, back in the kitchen, gonna keep here here a couple days till i know for sure she is out of danger.
can you recommend any good goat care books?
i see TSC is not carrying countryside or backwoods home anymore, and has scaled down on all other books/mags too.
dang it..

[dilligaf]

good to hear shes doing better.

the best book i know of.

Amazon.com: Storey's Guide to Raising Dairy Goats: Breeds, Care ... (http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Guide-Raising-Dairy-Goats/dp/1580172598)

[Kettle Farm]

hey thanks! i did see that one in TSC, but can probably get cheaper deal amazon.
i did put her back in the barn just for a little while as she was pawing and pacing, so figured she had t potty. that worked and i'll bring her in side later. its warm today. she misses her "family". *grin*

***ok, ordered it!***

[dilligaf]

they potty train fairly easily..:shock:

gonna have a house goat yet if ya aint careful. :mrgreen:

[Yooper]

Yup, "Storey's Guide to Raising Dairy Goats" has the best general info and you'll find it very good. We also have "Natural Goat Care" by Pat Coleby. My next book would be Harvey Considine's "Dairy Goats for Pleasure and Profit".
Darlene

[Kettle Farm]

*chuckle*..

we have a merck manual somewhere, other place maybe. we had a large pot belly pig for awhile but he was a naughty boy, went to live with others of his kind at friends. i'll take the goat instead.