Two types of corn in the same garden?

[Percysgirl]

I just found out we're going to be able to expand our planting space significantly, and I have added to the amount of corn I had planned- I'm literally doubling it. The problem is that I do not have enough of the particular corn I had decided on planting to do that much. It comes in packs of 150 and I am now planning about 350 plants.

If I order another type of corn, will it cause a problem? I've got my eye on some hulless popcorn I'd love to try out if it's ok to have them side by side like that.

[packyderms_wife]

If they are open pollinated you need to plant them far enough apart time wise so that there is no cross pollination and you can still get a decent harvest based on your zone and micro climate.

Kimberly

[greensman]

you shouldn't have a problem at all unless you want save some for seed. it sounds like they may be too close together to keep them from crossing. the seed produced would not be "true" to the original. it would still grow but might not have some of the qualities that you will want from it.

[Summerthyme]

greensman... I have to respectfully disagree... corn is probably the ONLY crop I know of where the first generation cross can cause problems.

If you let field corn/popcorn cross with your sweet corn, THAT YEAR'S sweet corn ears will have at least some "tough" and "not sweet" kernels.

No other plant crop works that way to my knowledge... you can cross pumpkins and squash and get pumpkins and squash... but if you plant the seeds from those fruits, you'll get squampkins!

You can test this theory by planting some indian corn (colored kernels) with some sweet corn, or a white corn with a yellow. You'll see the crosses.

That said, most popcorn is fairly long season... if you plant an early sweet corn (and if possible, plant whichever variety is most important to you UPwind) they should tassel at different times.

And make sure you plant in blocks, not long single rows...

Summerthyme

[Nicho1]

Listen to Summerthyme. Corn will cross-pollinate so with a small garden such as you are planning for now, you'd be well served to plant only one type of corn. I recently bought a name of corn that I have not tried but it is not a hybrid so I could save seeds. It is said that if it is picked early, it would be satisfactory. Leaving it to mature too long and it would not be what I expect from a sweet corn. It is called Trucker's Corn. If I plant it this year, I will not be able to plant Silver Queen which is wonderful. So, there you have it. Enjoy your garden!

[greensman]

sorry, i missed the popcorn mention in the OP. i had in my head that these would be two sweet varieties. do forgive me! :oops:

[Percysgirl]

OK, another question. Are dent corn and sweet corn two separate types? My grain mill can do dent corn, so I'm interested in trying that.

[packyderms_wife]

that is really interesting! I planted zuchini on year and no other gourds and ended up with some sort of hybrid of a gourd zucchini cross. Note that I had planted this seed from teh same seed packet, not saved seed, as I had the previous year and the zucchinis came out normal. So now I'm really left scratching my head. Btw the zukes were a hybrid even more confusing.

[momof23goats]

farmers tell me, that they will cross polinate up to five miles. now i didn't know that, but I do plant a couple of different kinds of corn. I plant one kind ealry and wait 3 weeks to plant the other kind. But if you have farmers planting corn, any where close to you, it will cross.

[Summerthyme]

Percysgirl- sweet corn IS a "dent" corn, but not all dent corn is sweet.

Now that I've got you thoroughly confused...

There are several types of corn. "Dent" corn is simply any variety which shrivels a bit as it dries, leaving a small "dent" in the center of each kernel. The opposite type is "flint" corn, which dries down very hard, and generally has shiny kernels with very hard seed coats.

Popcorn is more of a "flint" type, but is a different type as well... it's hard, brittle seed coat allows moisture to be held in each kernel, and when heat is applied, the steam created inside "explodes", breaking the seed coat and giving you a popcorn kernel.

Indian corn is colored corn- and I've seen it in dent, flint, and popcorn types.

Sweet corn has several classifications of it's own: standard (old time) sweet corn like Golden Bantam is the only type you can save your own seed from. Unfortunately, most folks are now used to the MUCH improved hybrid types, which are sweeter by a noticable amount. If you do want to grow an open pollinated sweet corn, you'll need to plan ahead and eat, dehydrate or freeze your crop within about a 3 day period. For eating corn more than just in that narrow window, you'll need to replant every week or so for a month... which will extend the season for you.

"EH" type sweet corn is a hybrid which has a gene trait (introduced through natural hybridization, NOT genetic modification) called the "everlasting heritage" trait. It basically holds the sugars in the kernels both on the plant (for up to 10 days) but also after you pick the corn... if you refrigerate the ears soon after picking, they will still be sweet for about 48 hours. EH varieties can be planted near other types without hurting them.

SUPERSWEET varieties are also hybrids... they hold on the plant and in refrigerated storage much like the EH types, but start with even more sugar in the kernels. THEY MUST BE ISOLATED from other types, though, or you end up with tough, non-sweet kernels mixed in.

Field corn:

This is the livestock corn... Back before the hybrids, etc, people just grew one type, and picked "green corn" (meaning unripe, NOT "green colored") for fresh eating, then let it ripen for livestock feed.

Flint corn is a field corn. All field corns (and popcorn) can be ground up for cornmeal, but flint corn (and popcorn) makes a very gritty meal.

FLOUR corn is another type of field corn, generally grown more in the Southwest and used for tortillas and other regional cooking.

You CAN grind sweet corn kernels which were dried down completely... but it can be tough to get them to dry that thoroughly.

On "corn can cross up to 5 miles"... well... maybe. On the plains, where there's nothing to hold back the wind except a barbed wire fence... it's possible some pollen grains might travel that far.

Most times, 1/2 mile is considered *plenty* of distance. And you can shorten that up a LOT if you use geographical features like hills or patches of woods. For example... our farm lies so most of the fields slope south, south-east. We have hills to our north and west. And the prevailing winds are from the west. I *never* have problems with any corn I plant crossing with other farmer's corn, although there are some fields planted across the road some years. That's because any which are west of us would have to blow pollen grains through about 300 yards of woods (and over and then down a hill). And the fields across the road are downwind of any of mine... plus there are farm buildings in between.

If I plant a multiple variety patch, I site the rows so they run east/west (so the prevailing winds blow straight DOWN the rows, not across them). Even only planting 4-6 rows of each type, I rarely see much crossing (and I choose varieties so I WILL see it- different colored kernels, or a dent corn next to a flint type). Most crossing will be a few kernels in the rows which stand right next to each other. If I want to save seed, I save it from the middle rows (and visually rogue it) and it works fine.

Now everyone will have to tell me what I missed...

Summerthyme

[Limner]

Percysgirl- sweet corn IS a "dent" corn, but not all dent corn is sweet.

Now that I've got you thoroughly confused...

There are several types of corn. "Dent" corn is simply any variety which shrivels a bit as it dries, leaving a small "dent" in the center of each kernel. The opposite type is "flint" corn, which dries down very hard, and generally has shiny kernels with very hard seed coats.

Popcorn is more of a "flint" type, but is a different type as well... it's hard, brittle seed coat allows moisture to be held in each kernel, and when heat is applied, the steam created inside "explodes", breaking the seed coat and giving you a popcorn kernel.

Indian corn is colored corn- and I've seen it in dent, flint, and popcorn types.

Sweet corn has several classifications of it's own: standard (old time) sweet corn like Golden Bantam is the only type you can save your own seed from. Unfortunately, most folks are now used to the MUCH improved hybrid types, which are sweeter by a noticable amount. If you do want to grow an open pollinated sweet corn, you'll need to plan ahead and eat, dehydrate or freeze your crop within about a 3 day period. For eating corn more than just in that narrow window, you'll need to replant every week or so for a month... which will extend the season for you.

"EH" type sweet corn is a hybrid which has a gene trait (introduced through natural hybridization, NOT genetic modification) called the "everlasting heritage" trait. It basically holds the sugars in the kernels both on the plant (for up to 10 days) but also after you pick the corn... if you refrigerate the ears soon after picking, they will still be sweet for about 48 hours. EH varieties can be planted near other types without hurting them.

SUPERSWEET varieties are also hybrids... they hold on the plant and in refrigerated storage much like the EH types, but start with even more sugar in the kernels. THEY MUST BE ISOLATED from other types, though, or you end up with tough, non-sweet kernels mixed in.

Field corn:

This is the livestock corn... Back before the hybrids, etc, people just grew one type, and picked "green corn" (meaning unripe, NOT "green colored") for fresh eating, then let it ripen for livestock feed.

Flint corn is a field corn. All field corns (and popcorn) can be ground up for cornmeal, but flint corn (and popcorn) makes a very gritty meal.

FLOUR corn is another type of field corn, generally grown more in the Southwest and used for tortillas and other regional cooking.

You CAN grind sweet corn kernels which were dried down completely... but it can be tough to get them to dry that thoroughly.

On "corn can cross up to 5 miles"... well... maybe. On the plains, where there's nothing to hold back the wind except a barbed wire fence... it's possible some pollen grains might travel that far.

Most times, 1/2 mile is considered *plenty* of distance. And you can shorten that up a LOT if you use geographical features like hills or patches of woods. For example... our farm lies so most of the fields slope south, south-east. We have hills to our north and west. And the prevailing winds are from the west. I *never* have problems with any corn I plant crossing with other farmer's corn, although there are some fields planted across the road some years. That's because any which are west of us would have to blow pollen grains through about 300 yards of woods (and over and then down a hill). And the fields across the road are downwind of any of mine... plus there are farm buildings in between.

If I plant a multiple variety patch, I site the rows so they run east/west (so the prevailing winds blow straight DOWN the rows, not across them). Even only planting 4-6 rows of each type, I rarely see much crossing (and I choose varieties so I WILL see it- different colored kernels, or a dent corn next to a flint type). Most crossing will be a few kernels in the rows which stand right next to each other. If I want to save seed, I save it from the middle rows (and visually rogue it) and it works fine.

Now everyone will have to tell me what I missed...

Summerthyme

Thanks, Summer. You're a fount of information.

[Freeholder]

Thanks, Summerthyme -- I've got two kinds of OP corn I want to plant this year, and will try your plan of planting the rows so the wind blows down the rows rather than across them. MOST of our wind comes from the west, off the mountains, so hopefully this will work, since I don't have enough space to separate the varieties very far.

Kathleen

ETA: both are field corns, so I don't suppose it would really hurt much if they did cross, but I'd like to keep them as pure as possible. One is Painted Mountain, the other is Fedco's Abenaki Calais Flint.