Does Secret Code of Honor

[Yooper]

Well, this is where I'm at this morning, skating out to the barn on glassy ice every hour to check on 7 girls about to pop. If I don't kill myself on the ice, all my hair will surely be pulled out by the end of the week! Thanks mostly to Drake who escaped some 150 days ago. sigh.

Doe's Secret Code of Honor
The doe's secret code of honor is as old as goats themselves and is
ultimately the species best kept secret. No doe shall ever kid
before its time. (Its time being determined by the following
factors):

1- No kid shall be born until total chaos has been reached by all
involved. Your owner's house must be a wreck, their family hungry
and desperate for clean clothes, and their social life nonexistent.

2- "Midwives" must reach the babbling fool status before you kid
out.Bloodshot eyes, tangled hair and the inability to form a
sentence
mean the time is getting close.

3- For every bell, beeper, camera or whistle they attach to you,
kidding must be delayed by at least one day for each item. If they
use an audio monitor, one good yell per hour will keep things
interesting.

4- If you hear the words, "She's nowhere near ready. She'll be fine
while we're away for the weekend," Wait until they load the car,
then begin pushing!

5- Owner stress must be at an all time high! If you are in the care
of someone else, ten to fifteen phone calls a day is a sign you're
getting close.

6- When you hear the words "I can't take it anymore!" wait at least
three more days.

7 -You must keep this waiting game interesting. False alarms are
mandatory! Little teasers such as looking at your stomach, pushing
your food around in the bucket and then walking away from it, and
nesting, are always good for a rise. Be creative and find new things
to do to keep the adrenaline pumping in those who wait.

8- The honor of all goats is now in your hands. Use this time to
avenge all of your barn mates. Think about your friend who had to
wear that silly costume in front of those people. Hang onto that
baby for
another day. OH, they made him do tricks too! Three more days seems
fair. Late feedings, the dreaded diet, bad haircuts, those awful
wormings can also be avenged at this time.

9- If you have fulfilled all of the above and are still not sure
when to have the kids, listen to the weather forecast on the radio
that
has been so generously provided by those who wait. Severe storm
warning
is what you're waiting for. In the heart of the storm jump into
action!
The power could go out and you could have the last laugh. You have a
good chance of those who wait missing the whole thing while
searching for a flashlight that works!

10- Make the most of your interrupted nights. Beg for food each time
someone comes into the barn to check you. Your barn mates will love
you as the extra goodies fall their way too.

Remember, this code of honor was designed to remind man of how truly
special goats are. Do your best to reward those who wait with a
beautiful doeling to carry on the Doe Code of Honor for the next
generation of those who wait!

[Mrs. S]

I can attest to the complete truth of your post.:-D

[joyce1954]

just wait until you have to do CPR to revive the newly born kid. Just cup your hand around their little nose and give a gentle puf of air after cleaning the nostrils and give a sharp slap over the heart (no fist) and another puff of air. They do come around.

[dilligaf]

ours are all done for the season.. HOORAY!!! Oddly enough this year they skipped the worst weather, no breaches,all kidded on nice sunny warm days and all the kids were live births... 4 bucks and 1 doe...

[momof23goats]

totally agree with all of it. I have been going out ,as late as 3 am to check on gals. this gets old fast, AND I am pretty worn out. so tomorrow, I am sleeping in. I will show them . Oh I wish I could, butwe are supposed to have a thunder storm, so that means, you guessed it .probably babies.
so I will sit and watch and run out, and check, and then come in and sit by the window, the nrepoeat every 30 minutes. yeah I am worn out. glad when this is over .then I have 2 that will probably kid in the fall. Well, in aug.

[Little RedRidingHood]

One of my milkers kidded on the 4th, one day early. She had one come head only, one popped out like a cork on old wine, and one came breech! AKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
But, all three are doing great and they are sweet bottle babies and quite the clowns! As is normal for little ones of the goat family,
The other doe is HUGE, and can barely get thru the door and is late! So, I am doing the walk between the house and barn more times a day then I can count. At night I use the baby monitor to listen. But, all I've been hearing are the three fillies ... snoring! And, the guardian dogs eating! Wonderful at 2 or 3 am!
I was hoping to go to town tomorrow to do some chores BUT she'll wait until I'm in my go to town clothes and then have them. It almost always happens that way.
Goat Union for Milkers???????????????? LOL!

[momof23goats]

One of my milkers kidded on the 4th, one day early. She had one come head only, one popped out like a cork on old wine, and one came breech! AKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
But, all three are doing great and they are sweet bottle babies and quite the clowns! As is normal for little ones of the goat family,
The other doe is HUGE, and can barely get thru the door and is late! So, I am doing the walk between the house and barn more times a day then I can count. At night I use the baby monitor to listen. But, all I've been hearing are the three fillies ... snoring! And, the guardian dogs eating! Wonderful at 2 or 3 am!
I was hoping to go to town tomorrow to do some chores BUT she'll wait until I'm in my go to town clothes and then have them. It almost always happens that way.
Goat Union for Milkers???????????????? LOL!
I can't tell you how many times i have made the dash from the goat barn to the house, in rain, snow or what ever with a baby wrappeed up in my coat shirt, what ever. many times. and of course your clothes are ruined
never fails, or late in the night, and used the bottom part of a gown or rove to wrap the little ones up. many times for sure.
I got one I gave up on she is always going to be fat. I do believe.

[Little RedRidingHood]

When I raised Toggs in the early 70's I went hundreds of miles to pick up a really nice doe from a close friend. She was a real beauty and just a yearling. This breeder never bred the does until their second fall, usually between 15-18 months.
Got the doe home and exposed her to my grand champion buck and saw the deed done lots of times. She kept getting fatter and fatter, and I waited and waited. Two years later still no babies and this doe was still getting taller and fatter, with just a hint of male about her.
Took her back after three years of feeding, care and breeding her each fall for years. Ended up my friend put her in the freezer two years later! She kept trying just like I did and the doe never did breed. When she butchered her she found male organs inside the doe!!!!
Being the good breeder my friend was she gave me back the money and a kid, of my choice, for each of the years I'd gone without getting any births from that doe. All she wanted was me to show them, and that alone would help her out alot with sales. So that is what I did in exchange for three young stock.
Breeders like her are few and far between these days. She went thru Mt. Saint Helens going off and the Tuttle River exploding on the lower side of her property thus she quit raising goats shortly after that but she was already in her late 70's to early 80's!
Ya just never know about the stock ... those fat, cute ones may surprise you!

[Yooper]

LLRH, How did you get the "head out first" kid out? I lost one last year that I couldn't get ahold of any legs and it suffocated. It was traumatic as I was alone and couldn't hold the doe and reach inside to grab a leg.

All of the "oops" batch have now kidded, eight kiddings in seven days. We are pooped. So many singles! So many boys looking a lot like DRAKE. And TOO many born in the wee hours of the morning! Most importantly, all healthy.

Momof23, today is the first day I will put on "normal" clothes after taking a scraper into the shower with me for placenta, colostrum and baby poop removal. We'll have to compare clothes stains one day! he he

Nine more kiddings to go. *sigh*

[Freeholder]

I've seen the Does Code of Honor before, LOL! It's true! My paint doe kidded nearly a week after showing all the signs of being in labor -- discharge, panting, pawing a nest, looking back at her sides...I spent several days making very quick trips to town (had to go) and rushing home to check on Miss Chalcedony! She finally gave me a doe and a buckling in the wee hours of the morning March 9th (and a good thing I was out there, because it was about eighteen degrees and the wind was howling!).

I have a stack of old towels that I use for cleaning up newborns -- when I have a doe getting really close, I take them out to the shed in a plastic bag, so they are handy and I don't have to keep carrying them back and forth. So far, just about every kid we've had born here in the five years we've been here, I've wrapped it up in a couple of towels, rushed it in to the house, and gave it to Grandma to dry off while I go watch to see if there are any more, and take care of the mom. Grandma loves having the babies to cuddle and dry off, and I'm free to look after the doe and any more kids that come. The old towels are stained, but clean, and have spared my clothes many times! :)

I *thought* I was done kidding when Chalcedony kidded, but it looks like Sugar, my yearling Alpine/Oberhasli cross, is pregnant after all. Probably another month or more to go for her, though.

Kathleen

[Little RedRidingHood]

Yooper ...
First, I've been birthing babies of all kinds for sssssssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooo long now that MOST of the time it is now second nature. With this one I just inserted a finger and felt around as much as I could to see if I could find a hoof, knee or leg. I found one hoof and knee and gently pushed her back, pulled the leg forward by the knee until I could get hold of the hoof. The more upsetting to me are the breech cause once the cold air hits that butt usually they gulp. That is how one of my sister's human babies died when I was a youngster. I've always remembered that so I don't like breech births.

Speaking of having helping hands while lambing, kidding or birthing stock. I use to have the best helper in the world ... my Trudy. She was a border collie and spayed, never had a litter. But, she LOVED those babies. She'd get so excited when the birthing began she run around outside the fences whinning and crying. Once one lamb or kid was born I'd take it into my travel trailer, give the shots, band, tag and place the baby on the floor on a blanket. I'd then go back out to the ewe or doe and wait for the next one to pop. Trudy would stay inside the travel trailer and clean and care for the newborn. By the time I got back the baby was bone dry, fluffed and so clean they looked like they'd been given a real bath not a tongue bath! By then Trudy would be sitting on the table waiting for me to come and get that kid or lamb away from HER! She loved them and cared for them UNTIL they decided to look for nipples to suck on ... Then she quit being motherly! She'd still act motherly though when the babies went into the part of the barn where the guardian dogs took over. She'd tell those big dogs to watch their step cause those were HER babies ...
Period! She's been gone since the fall of 2002 and I still miss her help!

PS: The travel trailer was an old, old model that I had inside my barn. It had a bed, head, kitchen and such. I spent many a cold night in the barn until I got that old heap. It worked great for an office, emergency bed or bathroom, and I heated up the bottles for the kids and lambs in there. Well worth the $ spent on it and the effort of getting it into the barn during a snow storm!!

[Little RedRidingHood]

Do you believe that the time of day you feed has any bearing on the time of delivery of the young??
Reason I ask this is cause I REALLY do! I raised sheep for a long time and that first year was the pits! They lambed at all hours of the day and night and during the cold months I nearly froze to death walking back and forth between barn and house three city blocks away! That is why I bought the above mentioned travel trailer.

The second year I feed twice daily, once at 7am and afternoons at 3pm. I did not have one night kidding or lambing the next year. I've carried this over into all the breeding programs. Horses, goats and sheep. The only breed that screws this timeline up is the mares when they foal. They nearly all foal late in the afternoon or after dark ... as is normal for them. But, I have great luck with the goats and the sheep following this timetable.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone else does this. I'm very, very strict about feeding times here on the ranch. It helps control the masses! LOL!
I got this idea from an old sheep raising book written by an old rancher who swore it worked for his grandpa, his dad and him. Wish I could remember the name of the book ... sorry.

[Freeholder]

I remember reading somewhere that feeding time would affect birthing times for goats and sheep; can't remember where I read (or heard) it, though. I fill the mangers once, in the evening, because I'm usually in a rush in the mornings. So far, since we've lived here, I've only had two does kid at night; most of them kidded during the day.

My English Shepherd, Bonnie, likes to clean up babies, too, but Grandma gets them first! Scout is afraid of them (big boy that he is) because he's been rolled by mamas, although he will clean up their rears when they poop. (He's afraid of newborn kittens, too.)

Kathleen

[momof23goats]

I have one tonight, that has streamed a bit today, and she sort of stares off at the stairs, so i think she is close, she is alittle off feed to ,but she is a pro this is not her first kidding, so i am sure she will be ok. IF their head or but comes frist ,I try to shove it back in, if I can and fine the legs, then pull out. and hopefully the sack doesn't break , and you can get those babies out.
I will be watching closely tonight, I have it liite up out there like the fourth of july, big yard light on, all kinds of lights on in the goat house. so I can just look out my window and see what is going on.
usually, when this one starts streaming, she kids right of way, guess not this time. I look for 2 at least.

[Freeholder]

I just remembered what I was going to say earlier, about breech babies (goats). If you have a breech, get it out as fast as you can, and if there's liquid in the lungs, take the baby by the hind legs and swing it around in a circle really fast. Centrifugal force will get the fluid out of the lungs, although you may have to repeat the swinging more than once. My pack wether, Jasper, was breech (the last of triplets, it's his sister that I'm milking now), and had to be swung three times before his lungs were clear -- would have lost him for sure if I hadn't been there when he was born (in mid-afternoon, thankfully!). They are strong, healthy three-year-olds now.

Kathleen

[packyderms_wife]

Would love to have goats but alas where I live right not it's just not going to happen I do love reading your stories though. I will say that Holsteins uphold to the same code of honor - I worked on dairy farm in S. Illinois one year cows are not as dumb as folks think they are :twisted:

Kimberly

[Jbuck]

I worked on dairy farm in S. Illinois one year cows are not as dumb as folks think they are :twisted:

Kimberly

No, they are actually dumber than you think!

I actually knew a guy in S Dakota that named all his cows (35 head)
He asked me if we ever named our cows, yah, 700 head. They were named you "you no good worthless ^%&$, get the &&^% down that trail you knot headed *%^&". I had some choice names for several of them.

[packyderms_wife]

No, they are actually dumber than you think!

I actually knew a guy in S Dakota that named all his cows (35 head)
He asked me if we ever named our cows, yah, 700 head. They were named you "you no good worthless ^%&$, get the &&^% down that trail you knot headed *%^&". I had some choice names for several of them.

I found them to be quite smart, well Holsteins are anyway, I hear Scottish Highlander Cattle are pretty smart as well - more in keeping with goats! I think it all depends on the amount of inbreeding that occurs.

[momof23goats]

No, they are actually dumber than you think!

I actually knew a guy in S Dakota that named all his cows (35 head)
He asked me if we ever named our cows, yah, 700 head. They were named you "you no good worthless ^%&$, get the &&^% down that trail you knot headed *%^&". I had some choice names for several of them.
all the animals on the homestead arenamed. but I have t osay, goats are much smarter than cows. I have had soem really dumb dows, for sure.

[DeepDuDu]

I know this is a dumb question, but I'm a guy, and we get too....

How did goats ever survive as a species before they became domesticated?

[Little RedRidingHood]

In the wild only the smart and the healthy survive. Those that have birthing trouble become the dinner of predators. Simple, easy and fine tunes the whole system. Now ...
We take an animal and put it in our barn. So we are the source of all food, water, and care. Now we are the ones they turn to eat and stay alive.

I personally think that most DGI's just don't understand how much is involved, and all the time and money most small farmers and ranchers and homesteaders put into their livestock. When you lose an animal it is not only the loss of money and time but ... it does really break your heart a little each time.

Lots of us have been doing this a long, long time and over the years have had animals die ... you always feel bad. Alot of times you were there at the birth of that animal and for ten years or so have cared, fed,loved and worried over them.

It's the cycle of life ... birth, life and death but sometimes the death thing comes calling early and doesn't seem fair.

I once had a wise, old sheep farmer tell me, "That some bloodlines of sheep were doomed to die. It just happens ... so get use to it."
I really did NOT want to believe it but after many years of raising sheep I decided this wise old shepherd was right. Some are just doomed to die ... No matter how hard we try to keep them from it! The law of nature finds a way.

[Freeholder]

I know this is a dumb question, but I'm a guy, and we get too....

How did goats ever survive as a species before they became domesticated?

Actually, goats are one of the quickest domestic animals to return to the wild (I think the other one is cats, which figures!). The ones who have kidding problems or other serious health problems quickly die off, leaving the others to reproduce. Sheep, on the other hand, are totally dependent on human care, except for the hair sheep, because they have to be shorn at least once a year or they get bogged down by all the wool they grow.

I don't really think that cows are dumb. If you took the calf of one of those dumb cows, and hand-raised it with a lot of human contact, it would probably end up quite intelligent (for a cow). It seems that the more contact with humans an animal has as it's growing up, the smarter it is (or the better we have it figured out!).

Kathleen

[DeepDuDu]

Actually, goats are one of the quickest domestic animals to return to the wild (I think the other one is cats, which figures!). Kathleen


Thanks for your reply, makes sense to me. Another domestic animal to very rapidly return to the wild is one that we don't generally think of is the pigeon, which is the first domesticated bird! All the feral pigeons you see today were originally imported as a meat source for our forefathers.

The only pigeons native to the USA are the band tailed pigeon and the pasenger pigeon:sad:, extinct since early last century, hunted for food by early settlers to the midwest.

[alpha]

I've got a young lady (second freshener) who's adhering to the code of honor this year... she's been nesting, moaning and puffy for about a week now. I've gotten very little sleep what with turning on the baby monitor every hour and trying to stay awake long enough to assess what I hear (between the hens and rooster mimicking her).

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-3/1162972/Oceana3a.jpg

I too have had no night-time kiddings since I feed twice daily at 7 am and again at about 5 pm, but where this is a new herd for us, I'm real particular about not letting the kids nurse (CAE prevention) so I jump up and get dressed to check no matter what time of night it is if something doesn't sound right. We used to have a CAE clean Nubian herd and our herd queen, Daisy, was the most vocal goat I had ever owned... constantly moaning during the last month of pregnancy. In her case, being a great mother with a history of easy delivery, we didn't get all paranoid that she may kid during the night.

This one, Oceana, is the first due for this year. Then in a week another, and three weeks later our third is due. Building up a new herd with new stock is quite a chore because I have to learn all the individual idiosyncrasies of the players and choose bucks based upon weaknesses in each doe. Thank goodness for the goats though... protein on the hoof!

[Yooper]

Howdy Alpha!
Goodness, I sure hope that your "girl" has kidded by now! I just caught up with this thread. The picture looks like an Alpine or Togg cross?

We have had a two week break from kiddings. Today another is due and one next week. Then they just trickle in until another 8 kid by the end of June.
Whew! But all healthy happy kids and moms so we are thankful.
Let us know how your beautiful girl kidded, OK?

[momof23goats]

she sure does look close, and her bag is nice with colustrum for sure. she was dlose. has she kidded yet?
i would say just fro mher picture she was with in 24 hours of kidding. or any time now. let us know how that worked out.

[alpha]

to get back to this thread... as most of you know this is a VERY busy time of year around the farm. Yes, Oceana kidded on April 3rd giving us triplets. (2 doelings and 1 buckling). Then Ana gave us another doeling on the 11th and Amelia kidded on the 25th with a doeling and a buckling.

All this rain has really blossomed the coccidia and created a nightmare around here... treatments all completed but the rain keeps on coming! When is summer supposed to start?

Yooper, they're all Toggs (American) and good producers too! I make cheese and sell it along with the milk off the farm as well as to local restaurants. Add to this the pigs, four cows, 35 chickens and 12 turkeys and maybe ya'll will forgive me for being so slow to respond with a followup to the thread. How are your gardens doing with this weather?

[momof23goats]

to get back to this thread... as most of you know this is a VERY busy time of year around the farm. Yes, Oceana kidded on April 3rd giving us triplets. (2 doelings and 1 buckling). Then Ana gave us another doeling on the 11th and Amelia kidded on the 25th with a doeling and a buckling.

All this rain has really blossomed the coccidia and created a nightmare around here... treatments all completed but the rain keeps on coming! When is summer supposed to start?

Yooper, they're all Toggs (American) and good producers too! I make cheese and sell it along with the milk off the farm as well as to local restaurants. Add to this the pigs, four cows, 35 chickens and 12 turkeys and maybe ya'll will forgive me for being so slow to respond with a followup to the thread. How are your gardens doing with this weather?
well, that sounds like hee, for sure, now add horses into your mix, and it would be like here .
my garden is slow, very slow, really slow. pokey, been to cold for sure.

[alpha]

I believe it Mom... it has been unseasonably cold and wet up here in the Northeast too. The tomatoes and potatoes are the only crops (other than alot of the herb garden) that seem to tolerate and even thrive in this stuff! We've had to cover our crops twice this month because of frost and with the few days of sun, the ground doesn't seem to be warm enough to get things off to a good start.
We'll be replanting our lettuce and beets in hopes that it gets warm (and dry) enough for them to sprout.

[Bamidbar]

[...]

All of the "oops" batch have now kidded, eight kiddings in seven days. We are pooped. So many singles! So many boys looking a lot like DRAKE. And TOO many born in the wee hours of the morning! Most importantly, all healthy.

[...]

Nine more kiddings to go. *sigh*

I had a single too which is very unusual for the Kinder and with her lines, to boot! The bonus was she was a sweet little doe.

One more kidding to go....and the doe has taken the Does Code so it is a mystery when she will kid, probably when I have a critical item on my errand list.