Boosting Your Immune System to Fight off Swine Flu Etc.

[packyderms_wife]

Mod's I'm asking that you leave this here for at least a day in light of the epidemic in Cali, Texas, and Mexico.

Hubby works with the public every day, he drives mass transit for the city here, what can I do to keep his immune system strong as well as mine??? He's in contact with thousands of college students all day long, many of which don't have the best of hygine practices!

I'm sure that there are many more here like me that don't go out all that often and therefore don't have immunity to every bug in existance.

Aside from upping one's garlic and water intake and getting plenty of sleep what else does one do to boost their immune system against a monster virus like the one now emerging?

Kimberly

[hunybee]

vitamin d. first get your levels checked, and then get on a good vit. d supplement and a good calcium supplement.

[Summerthyme]

BE CAREFUL!!!

While I agree that a strong immune system is a good thing, unfortunately, it's also something the H5N1 flu strain (Bird Flu) uses AGAINST you.

As in... kills you. It's called a cytokine storm, and it's believed it is what killed many/most of the 1918 flu victims.

Whenever you see reports of a 'flu (or other illness) which is making "young, healthy adults" sicker than any other group- that is a CLUE.

If you see that, do NOT use any immune system boosters.

The best herbal/OTC remedy for 'flu is still elderberry extract. It may have some weak immune system boosting effects (which is why you'll see some people screaming to not take it if we get a bird flu pandemic), but that isn't how it works... it actually prevents the 'flu virus from replicating. So, if you take it early and often (at the first hint of symptoms, or if anyone close to you (family or co-workers) gets sick, it will reduce your "viral load"... and the higher the viral load (or amount of virus in your system), the worse the cytokine storm. (given equal immune systems, etc)

My son and his wife swear by the stuff- she works in a college adminstration office, and is around people in fairly close quarters constantly. He works in an engineering test lab, and while he doesn't have quite the same exposure, he sees plenty of different people daily. They both have found that as long as they take my homemade elderberry syrup during flu season, especially when people around them are getting sick- they never get sick.

We use it here, although we're rarely exposed to much on the farm. But a couple years back, when hubby was still working off the farm, there was a nasty influenza bug going around. He caught it, as did all 5 of his co-workers. I put him on a tablespoon of elderberry syrup every couple of hours, plus Pinot Noir wine (it contains another potent anti-viral, resveratrol), and although he was VERY sick for 24 hours (temp of 103°, shaking chills, congested lungs, cough and severe muscle pain)... he was out of bed and recovering in 48 hours. Back to work after 2 days off. So... was it the elderberry? Well... of his 5 co-workers, three got secondary pneumonia and missed three weeks of work. The other 2 "only" missed two weeks. You decide...

Summerthyme

[AnnieOakley]

BE CAREFUL!!!

While I agree that a strong immune system is a good thing, unfortunately, it's also something the H5N1 flu strain (Bird Flu) uses AGAINST you.

As in... kills you. It's called a cytokine storm, and it's believed it is what killed many/most of the 1918 flu victims.

Whenever you see reports of a 'flu (or other illness) which is making "young, healthy adults" sicker than any other group- that is a CLUE.

If you see that, do NOT use any immune system boosters.

The best herbal/OTC remedy for 'flu is still elderberry extract. It may have some weak immune system boosting effects (which is why you'll see some people screaming to not take it if we get a bird flu pandemic), but that isn't how it works... it actually prevents the 'flu virus from replicating. So, if you take it early and often (at the first hint of symptoms, or if anyone close to you (family or co-workers) gets sick, it will reduce your "viral load"... and the higher the viral load (or amount of virus in your system), the worse the cytokine storm. (given equal immune systems, etc)

My son and his wife swear by the stuff- she works in a college adminstration office, and is around people in fairly close quarters constantly. He works in an engineering test lab, and while he doesn't have quite the same exposure, he sees plenty of different people daily. They both have found that as long as they take my homemade elderberry syrup during flu season, especially when people around them are getting sick- they never get sick.

We use it here, although we're rarely exposed to much on the farm. But a couple years back, when hubby was still working off the farm, there was a nasty influenza bug going around. He caught it, as did all 5 of his co-workers. I put him on a tablespoon of elderberry syrup every couple of hours, plus Pinot Noir wine (it contains another potent anti-viral, resveratrol), and although he was VERY sick for 24 hours (temp of 103°, shaking chills, congested lungs, cough and severe muscle pain)... he was out of bed and recovering in 48 hours. Back to work after 2 days off. So... was it the elderberry? Well... of his 5 co-workers, three got secondary pneumonia and missed three weeks of work. The other 2 "only" missed two weeks. You decide...

Summerthyme

Thanks Summerthyme...will be filing this info in my prep folder.

[grizzly]

vitamin d. first get your levels checked, and then get on a good vit. d supplement and a good calcium supplement.
Don't forget Vit.D-3 is what you want.

You may want to consider selinium, and l-lysine.

Also have read real good reports on Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan, you can purchase from health food stores.

[packyderms_wife]

I have some of the elderberry extract, I'm not taking anything now and neither is the hubby well aside from eating a balanced diet.

Very informative, thank you! People need to know this stuff and how to protect themselves.

Kimberly

[3-L's]

BE CAREFUL!!!

While I agree that a strong immune system is a good thing, unfortunately, it's also something the H5N1 flu strain (Bird Flu) uses AGAINST you.

As in... kills you. It's called a cytokine storm, and it's believed it is what killed many/most of the 1918 flu victims.

Whenever you see reports of a 'flu (or other illness) which is making "young, healthy adults" sicker than any other group- that is a CLUE.

If you see that, do NOT use any immune system boosters.

The best herbal/OTC remedy for 'flu is still elderberry extract. It may have some weak immune system boosting effects (which is why you'll see some people screaming to not take it if we get a bird flu pandemic), but that isn't how it works... it actually prevents the 'flu virus from replicating. So, if you take it early and often (at the first hint of symptoms, or if anyone close to you (family or co-workers) gets sick, it will reduce your "viral load"... and the higher the viral load (or amount of virus in your system), the worse the cytokine storm. (given equal immune systems, etc)

My son and his wife swear by the stuff- she works in a college adminstration office, and is around people in fairly close quarters constantly. He works in an engineering test lab, and while he doesn't have quite the same exposure, he sees plenty of different people daily. They both have found that as long as they take my homemade elderberry syrup during flu season, especially when people around them are getting sick- they never get sick.

We use it here, although we're rarely exposed to much on the farm. But a couple years back, when hubby was still working off the farm, there was a nasty influenza bug going around. He caught it, as did all 5 of his co-workers. I put him on a tablespoon of elderberry syrup every couple of hours, plus Pinot Noir wine (it contains another potent anti-viral, resveratrol), and although he was VERY sick for 24 hours (temp of 103°, shaking chills, congested lungs, cough and severe muscle pain)... he was out of bed and recovering in 48 hours. Back to work after 2 days off. So... was it the elderberry? Well... of his 5 co-workers, three got secondary pneumonia and missed three weeks of work. The other 2 "only" missed two weeks. You decide...

Summerthyme

I love elderberry and swear by it also. If I have a cough it stops the coughing right now. The thing though is that if one is dealing with flu it is important to do as you stated above.......take it at regular frequent intervals not just once a day like a maintenance dose but take it like you would other stuff to recover........every couple of hours and I would imagine that includes going as deep into the night time hours as possible..

Would you agree Summerthyme?

A reminder - get your elderberries at:

www.herbalcom.com (http://www.herbalcom.com) or your other favorite place but just get it.....and don't forget to get plenty of vodka.

[3-L's]

Don't forget Vit.D-3 is what you want.

You may want to consider selinium, and l-lysine.

Also have read real good reports on Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan, you can purchase from health food stores.


What you mentioned is also very good.

I think we are going to need an arsenal of herbs and supplements to tackle what is coming.

The main thing is to don't hesitate on taking them and often.

After all...........what would be the alternative? What would there be to lose. If one is going to be toast there is nothing left to lose and all the stops should be pulled out. Something is going to work.

[Meemur]

I Agree with everything posted thus far.

Plus --

Be dilligent about handwashing and keeping your unwashed hands away from your face. Pack some hand sanitizer with your husband's lunch/snacks. I bought several boxes of those "little bottles," which I refill and drop into jacket pockets and tote bags. There are also wipes, which are expensive, but one is less likely to skip hand cleaning if the stuff is right there when needed.

We continue to have "Ohio Crud" going around, still. It's this deep, lingering cough. If I'm in for the day after being out in public, I change my clothing and take a shower. I've had it twice. The second time, lasted only four days. I drowned it with Vitamin C (not medical advice! Just what I did).

In addition to the herbs and vitamins mentioned, I also take Vitamin C, and I'm continuing it until June 1. Although it's been pooh-poohed in some circles, I believe it has helped me.

[goatlady]

I would STRONGLY suggest you folks get your dried elderberries and vodka NOW while they are available, make up your quarts of tincture or syrup and have it handy. It keeps it's medicinal potency for years, but since it takes at least a week to make it, you really want to have it ready to use when you really need it. Echinacea is fine as an antibacterial but elderberry is a really excellent, proven VIRUS fighter, as there are NO preseciption medications for viral infections available.

[Is45]

There is only ONE who can give you immunity...

The Divine Physician


You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,
nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.

A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.



Psalm 91:5-7






~

[Meemur]

I would STRONGLY suggest you folks get your dried elderberries and vodka NOW while they are available, .

Yes, I'll break down and buy some. I make my own, but my elderberry bushes won't be ready to harvest for several months. I've already used up what I bottled last year.

[nharrold]

BE CAREFUL!!!

While I agree that a strong immune system is a good thing, unfortunately, it's also something the H5N1 flu strain (Bird Flu) uses AGAINST you.

As in... kills you. It's called a cytokine storm, and it's believed it is what killed many/most of the 1918 flu victims.

Whenever you see reports of a 'flu (or other illness) which is making "young, healthy adults" sicker than any other group- that is a CLUE.

If you see that, do NOT use any immune system boosters.

The best herbal/OTC remedy for 'flu is still elderberry extract. It may have some weak immune system boosting effects (which is why you'll see some people screaming to not take it if we get a bird flu pandemic), but that isn't how it works... it actually prevents the 'flu virus from replicating. So, if you take it early and often (at the first hint of symptoms, or if anyone close to you (family or co-workers) gets sick, it will reduce your "viral load"... and the higher the viral load (or amount of virus in your system), the worse the cytokine storm. (given equal immune systems, etc)

My son and his wife swear by the stuff- she works in a college adminstration office, and is around people in fairly close quarters constantly. He works in an engineering test lab, and while he doesn't have quite the same exposure, he sees plenty of different people daily. They both have found that as long as they take my homemade elderberry syrup during flu season, especially when people around them are getting sick- they never get sick.

We use it here, although we're rarely exposed to much on the farm. But a couple years back, when hubby was still working off the farm, there was a nasty influenza bug going around. He caught it, as did all 5 of his co-workers. I put him on a tablespoon of elderberry syrup every couple of hours, plus Pinot Noir wine (it contains another potent anti-viral, resveratrol), and although he was VERY sick for 24 hours (temp of 103°, shaking chills, congested lungs, cough and severe muscle pain)... he was out of bed and recovering in 48 hours. Back to work after 2 days off. So... was it the elderberry? Well... of his 5 co-workers, three got secondary pneumonia and missed three weeks of work. The other 2 "only" missed two weeks. You decide...

Summerthyme

Thanks for sharing your experience and insights. In my own case, I've had good results over the years by taking 3000 units of vitamin c every day. I've also got some of that Israeli elderberry stuff stuck away, just in case. Fortunately, out here in the sticks we're rarely exposed to others, unless we have to go out for groceries; in which case we'll just live off the preps if need be.

[night driver]

3-L's you are correct, we ARE going to need an armful of medicaments. BUT we need to understand WHY we want to take WHICH ONES. For instance using Vit C and Zinc to increase your immune system may KILL you if you are fighting H5N1. You need to understand HOW each herbal or scrip works.

[Spike n Ree]

Culantro - Medicinal: Traditionally used to treat fever and flu.

Lemon Balm - Medicinal: Aerial parts used in teas for colds, flu.

Wild Marjoram - Medicinal: Anti-viral, anti-bacterial.

These are found at Johnny's Selected seeds

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/Home.aspx?ct=

[Trivium Pursuit]

Elderberry AND oregano oil VILE but powerful...

[momof23goats]

I have some of the elderberry extract, I'm not taking anything now and neither is the hubby well aside from eating a balanced diet.

Very informative, thank you! People need to know this stuff and how to protect themselves.

Kimberly
yes, elderberries, and other berrries, any kind would be good. I think I would take a does of your extract daily, for a while can't hurt.

[Rabid Rabbit]

HOT spicy salsa.

Changes your body ph and makes your body an environment the bugs don't like.

[Is45]

HOT spicy salsa.

Changes your body ph and makes your body an environment the bugs don't like.




That's not working so well for the twenty Mexicans who have died
and the hundreds in the hospitals.


~

[RightWinger]

Aside from upping one's garlic and water intake and getting plenty of sleep what else does one do to boost their immune system against a monster virus like the one now emerging?




I don't know if one has anything to do with the other, however since I started taking the baking soda and maple syrup which (to me) seemed to kill off my case of bladder cancer, I haven't had a case of the flu or even a cold.

Does the virus require a higher PH then what the very alkaline baking soda will allow? Like I said, I don't know, but perhaps something to look into.

[pinnacle1263]

rightwinger - if you are in the mood to share....tell us more about how your concoction helped with bladder cancer....thanks

[RightWinger]

rightwinger - if you are in the mood to share....tell us more about how your concoction helped with bladder cancer....thanks

Yes, will be happy to! You can find the story at:
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37578 (http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37578)I had another biopsy about 3 weeks ago, and it also came back negative for cancer cells.

As a side line story, my sister had problems with skin cancer so bad that her nose almost had a third nostral. After my first negative biopsy, she tried using the baking soda / maple syrup mixture as a paste, applied it directly to the sore, left it on for a while and then cleaned it off good with Hydrogen Peroxide. Can't say for sure why, but it appears the cancer is gone and her sore is almost healed.

Not being a doctor, I can not give any medical advice, all I can tell you is what I did and what appeared to happen afterwards. And most important, don't forget the Lord, He is an Awesome Healer!

[Annie Maude]

Wash hands, wash hands, wash hands. Try not to put your hands near your face. And viruses can stay alive on inert services, so it's not just shaking hands that can infect you.
BTW, I don't even take a vitamin supplement, and I'm never sick. All those years of working in ICU have built up my immunity I think. Knock on wood.

[Milk-maid]

.....Be dilligent about handwashing and keeping your unwashed hands away from your face.....

There is a lot of research that it is not just your hands and face, but keeping your ears + eyes clean and don't touch them with dirty hands. Stuff goes to the system very fast especially from the ears.

The tincture takes a bit longer than a week to make. It takes me 3-4 months. Go to the board section called the kitchen for recipes how to make this. At any one given time, I have some soaking in a glass jar with a plastic lid, that I keep in a dark cupboard in a black bag. I give them to my family for their emergency cupboard when they are done.

MM

[Rabid Rabbit]

That's not working so well for the twenty Mexicans who have died
and the hundreds in the hospitals.


~


hmmmm..good point. Guess I had better STOP eating the stuff!!:razz:

[preparinginidaho]

BE CAREFUL!!!

While I agree that a strong immune system is a good thing, unfortunately, it's also something the H5N1 flu strain (Bird Flu) uses AGAINST you.

As in... kills you. It's called a cytokine storm, and it's believed it is what killed many/most of the 1918 flu victims.

Whenever you see reports of a 'flu (or other illness) which is making "young, healthy adults" sicker than any other group- that is a CLUE.

If you see that, do NOT use any immune system boosters.

The best herbal/OTC remedy for 'flu is still elderberry extract. It may have some weak immune system boosting effects (which is why you'll see some people screaming to not take it if we get a bird flu pandemic), but that isn't how it works... it actually prevents the 'flu virus from replicating. So, if you take it early and often (at the first hint of symptoms, or if anyone close to you (family or co-workers) gets sick, it will reduce your "viral load"... and the higher the viral load (or amount of virus in your system), the worse the cytokine storm. (given equal immune systems, etc)

My son and his wife swear by the stuff- she works in a college adminstration office, and is around people in fairly close quarters constantly. He works in an engineering test lab, and while he doesn't have quite the same exposure, he sees plenty of different people daily. They both have found that as long as they take my homemade elderberry syrup during flu season, especially when people around them are getting sick- they never get sick.

We use it here, although we're rarely exposed to much on the farm. But a couple years back, when hubby was still working off the farm, there was a nasty influenza bug going around. He caught it, as did all 5 of his co-workers. I put him on a tablespoon of elderberry syrup every couple of hours, plus Pinot Noir wine (it contains another potent anti-viral, resveratrol), and although he was VERY sick for 24 hours (temp of 103°, shaking chills, congested lungs, cough and severe muscle pain)... he was out of bed and recovering in 48 hours. Back to work after 2 days off. So... was it the elderberry? Well... of his 5 co-workers, three got secondary pneumonia and missed three weeks of work. The other 2 "only" missed two weeks. You decide...

Summerthyme

How do you make your elderberry syrup? I am going to order the elderberries. I am also going to plant some and may have 1 in my yard. We just moved here and it looks like one, but I need to find out for sure. Can you store yours and for how long?

[peachy2k]

Hydrogen Pyroxide (food grade) - taken very diluted. Google it.

Tobacco and a vaporizor - some of the only survivors of bird flu were smokers. Nicotene is a killer of the virus in your lungs. A vaporizor slowly heats the tobacco keeping the bad stuff out of the smoke.

Beta Glucan - mentioned prior to this - has been proven better than antibiotics to prevent hosptital acquired MRSA and other infections.

A zapper - device which sends low freq. pulse through your body. http://www.orgonise-africa.net/zapper.html sells them with silver and gold electrodes - gold is best, silver is good too.

Ester C - stays in your blood 4xs longer than reg. Vitamin C - a strong immune booster. Gradually work your way up to 3000 mg / day. Start at 500 mg x 2 per day.

Saline nose spray - use every hour or two during pandemic - three times daily prior to outbreak - you will get the virus likely through inhalation - if it lodges in sinus salt will kill it.

Salt lamp - similar to nose spray - makes for a non-friendly environment for the bug. Put one at your desk at work, and one by your bed. Gradually releases salt in the air. Himalyan salt is the best.

[Jubilee on Earth]

Also, I remember reading a very interesting article once about how colds, flus and other viruses thrive better in acidic bodies. The article stated that daily doses of diluted apple cider vinegar helped to shift one's PH levels to a more alkaline state.

Does anyone have knowledge of this?

[goatlady]

MIlkMaid, The alcohol molecules are what absorb the medicinal properties of the herb (which is why unflavored vodka is best as a medium - has more molecule "room") and in 7-10 days those molecules are full to capicity so longer soaking really doesn't do anything at all. If you feel better taking months, that's fine, but it's really not necessary in order to get the full benefit of the properties.

[BACKDOC]

To keep your body more alkaline, eat lots of fruits and vegetables. I also make up a mixture of apple cider vinegar, concentrated cranberry juice and fresh squeezed lemon juice. I dilute it with spring water and add Stevia to sweeten. This keeps the toxins out of the liver.

To help your immune system, take plenty of calcium lactate, the easiest type of calcium for the body to break down and make sure you provide the colon with lots of good bacteria. The colon also aids in the immune response.

[packyderms_wife]

Also, I remember reading a very interesting article once about how colds, flus and other viruses thrive better in acidic bodies. The article stated that daily doses of diluted apple cider vinegar helped to shift one's PH levels to a more alkaline state.

Does anyone have knowledge of this?

Since Vingear is an acid I find that very hard to believe.

Kimberly

[packyderms_wife]

To keep your body more alkaline, eat lots of fruits and vegetables. I also make up a mixture of apple cider vinegar, concentrated cranberry juice and fresh squeezed lemon juice. I dilute it with spring water and add Stevia to sweeten. This keeps the toxins out of the liver.

To help your immune system, take plenty of calcium lactate, the easiest type of calcium for the body to break down and make sure you provide the colon with lots of good bacteria. The colon also aids in the immune response.

So can you tell me which bio-synthesis the body is using where one can intake acidic food/beverages and make their body more alkaline???

Kimberly

[Jubilee on Earth]

So can you tell me which bio-synthesis the body is using where one can intake acidic food/beverages and make their body more alkaline???

Kimberly

I did a couple of quick Google searches on acidic/alkaline foods, and the results all pretty much indicated the same thing. Here's one of the articles I read, from this link: http://www.ctds.info/acidic-foods.html

The chart below categorizes a food as either acidic or alkaline based on the effect consumption of the food has on urine pH. For example, if a food tends to increase the acidity of urine after it is ingested, it is classified as an acid forming food. Conversely, if a food increases the alkalinity of urine after it has been ingested, it was classified it as an alkaline forming food. The effect foods have on urine pH may be quite different than the pH of the foods themselves. For example, orange juice is a highly acidic food due to its high citrus acid content, but after being metabolized it will cause urine to become alkaline.

However, this kind of research on acid/alkaline foods seems to be in the direction of holistic/natural health & wellness. I don't see any major doctor/hospital/journal articles about it. I plan on doing some more research later from a medical journal database, but I personally believe it. I do take apple cider vinegar when I'm having a bad bout of heart burn, and it clears it up within a few days. If these theories weren't true, it would make it much worse (I would think).

Besides, most of what doctors DON'T talk about seems to be the way to go...

[night driver]

Your body maintains a ph that doesn't vary by much. MAYBE 5%. And you correct the ph by several methods, ONE of which is to hyperventilate to blow the acid off. Attempting to change the body's ph isn't going to do a lot.

Y'all need to do some research on acidosis and alkylosis, both metabolic and respiratory before you start talking about changing your body's ph.

[NONCOMPLIANT]

A question about elderberries. Do I understand that you need to take it with alcohol, as I think vodka was mentioned?
Are there different kinds of elderberries? Can I use our native elderberries(Kansas)?
Also I do make homemade wine and elderberry is one. Will this work as well?
Good info here.......keep it coming and THANKS, Adrian

[Cav Trooper]

With many years of listening to the QFiles show, I have put together these items in my med pack to treat myself during a possible pandemic if 'there is no Doctor' or I'm in self imposed quarantine during a 'shelter in place' or 'bugout' retreat.

Sambucol, the Israeli elderberry extract... lots of it.

Curcumin, found in the supermarket, for 'fighting' the Cytokine storm reaction by the immune system.

Oreganol.

Tamiflu taken at double dose?

Meso Silver (from Steve's sponsor, Purest Colloids). Possible ways to prevent/treat flu with Meso nano-silver: drop in and around eyes, ears, nasal passages (spray), soak surgical masks in them and allow to dry, take orally (recolonize the good bacteria in your gut that will die off with acidolphilis if you do this).

Also, Purest Colloids sells a small but good quality nebulizer to get the nano silver into the throat and lungs to kill off the infection or keep it at bay.

I also put together the following items into my 'Bio kit' :

Tyvek F bio suit.
M-95 Protective mask (kept clean and in check at all times).
Camelbak drinking adapter to enable self hydration while wearing the M-95 NBC protective mask.
large stock of high quality M-95 spare filters with far out expiration dates.
Tyvek suit hood.
Nitril over booties.
N-95 masks (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE M-95! PROTECTIVE MASK)
Latex surgical gloves (hundreds of pairs).
Several rolls of duct tape for cuff and ankle sealing.
Disinfectant hand wipes, clorox bleach, soaps, plastic bags, lots of cleaning supplies!
Shaving cream and razors.
Water proof med adhesive tape.
A small garden sprayer tank to fill with decontamination solution (water and bleach solution) to disinfect surfaces including your shoes after venturing out.
A gravity shower (and small kiddie pool) to set up to be filled with disinfectant solution (water and bleach) to decontaminate while still in a Tyvek suit.
Berkey water filtration system with spare filters and maintenance items.
Ester-C
Emputech A/C-D/C-rechargeable Ultra Violet light wand to disinfect surfaces and air. This should be very useful.
Disposable ear plugs
Some sort of eye protection the SEALS around the entire eyes to prevent infection entering the body that way.
A few years back I picked up several "Nano Masks" and 200 spare disposable filter elements for them.
Again, stock up on lots of cleaning supplies now!

You should also have a plan for a sealed, positive pressure, HEPA filtered Safe Room in the house. Be advised, this is a lot more work then hanging plastic sheeting over a few windows! If anyone is interested, I can post what I did to 'construct' my safe room. My filtering system is again, from one of Steve's old sponsors that sold 2'X2' nuclear power plant HEPA pre and main filter elements. I assembled them together and added a 12VDC automobile radiator cooling fan assembly with variable resistor and a plenum chamber that will operate off A/C power through a battery charger and 12V deep cycle battery or off DC battery power only.

Excellent books to purchase are:

"Breath No Evil" by Steve Quayle

"Dare To Prepare", Holy Deyo

Also print as much reference material as you can and place in a binder.

Practice the 3 to 4 foot rule. And you might do well not getting the public version of any vaccine they drag out to prevent or combat it.

[Homesteader1]

This is a herbal remedy, suppossedly used during one of the flu epidemics( I can't verify this), but what I can tell you is that when we start feeling like something isn't just right we take this and elderberry tinture and if it presists we add in natural vit.C( made from rosehips and other natural ingredience)

Anyway I'll share it here, for what it's worth, it surely won't hurt anyone( unless allergic to herbs, garlic or cider vinegar)

Four Thieves Vinegar
> >
> > Use equal parts of the following herbs:
> >
> > Lavender
> > Sage
> > Rosemary
> > Thyme
> > Melissa (lemon balm)
> > Hyssop
> > Peppermint
> >
> > A handful of garlic cloves
> >
> > Blend ingredients in a glass jar and cover completely
> >with organic, unpasteurized apple cider vinegar, which is
> >available in most health food stores. Cold infuse (let
> >sit at room temperature in a cool place) for six weeks
> >and then strain off herbs and garlic.
> >
> >You can take Four Thieves Vinegar by the teaspoonful, use
> >it as a salad dressing, or even add a spoonful to your bath
> >water for personal protection.
> >
> > You can also use it as a topical spray to disinfect
> >surfaces -- including skin -- and/or you can take it as a
> >tincture. All of the ingredients in Four Thieves Vinegar
> >are either potent antibacterials or antivirals!

[Just Kate]

For those of us that are not herbal med educated, can someone provide the percentage and directions how to combine the vodka and the elderberry. Thanks.

[Homesteader1]

My unscientific version is to fill a qt. jar about 1/3 full of (fresh) elderberries( crushed) and fill the remaining 2/3 with vodka. I'm not sure abut dehydrated berries, the ratio would be less berries, I guess.:-|

[Adino]

I just ordered some elderberries.

The Native American Indians had good results during the 1918 pandemic with lomatium. Its a root they made a tincture out of.

[BB]

We like to use Bragg's apple vinegar with the mother in our salads when stuff like this breaks out. It has the potential of killing any virus upon contact. Most using this stuff were spared from the smallpox epidemics and major flu outbreaks.

http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html

[seagull]

Also, I remember reading a very interesting article once about how colds, flus and other viruses thrive better in acidic bodies. The article stated that daily doses of diluted apple cider vinegar helped to shift one's PH levels to a more alkaline state..

I think you mean "acidic state"--- lower pH

[SheWoff]

My unscientific version is to fill a qt. jar about 1/3 full of (fresh) elderberries( crushed) and fill the remaining 2/3 with vodka. I'm not sure abut dehydrated berries, the ratio would be less berries, I guess.:-|

You can also use shine instead of vodka as long as you know the proof. You want to stay around 80 or 90 proof iirc.

She

[Summerthyme]

I'm not going to be around much for a few days here- spring has finally sprung (I hope!).

but... yes, you can make a tincture out of elderberries and it apparently works well for what you want- killing off 'flu virus. Standard ratios for tincture is 1:5 (for dried berries) or 1:4 for fresh. BUT... while I don't have moral or physical issues with alcohol, although we don't personally drink socially, I DO truly worry about having only tincture for your "flu medicine". For one thing... 1/2 ounce of high proof booze is going to put many people over the legal line for DWI. And taking that much every 2-4 hours when sick.... well, the idea bothers me. MOST tinctures tend to have doses more in the range of a number of drops to 1 tsp or so max. The Elderberry doesn't seem to work in those low doses.

Plus, of course, giving even smaller doses to children is problematic- not to mention they HATE the taste. (so do most adults!)

So... I copied and pasted this from when I wrote it over at TB2k. I'll try to pop back in and answer any questions later.

<paste>
****** asked me to post my "elderberry syrup" recipe here, and to check his post. The only thing I'd change as far as his tincture recipe is that you *may* want to use a higher proof vodka if you are using fresh berries. Be sure you aren't using anything stronger than 80 proof for dry berries, because you need the water content to help rehydrate them. For fresh berries I'd probably use 160 proof vodka, personally.

This recipe is one I made up after buying both Sambucol and a nice product sold by Todd's Honey Gardens in Vermont. It's based on standard principles for herbal syrups, and can be made either with 10% alcohol as a preservative which allows for lower amounts of honey or sugar, or as a saturated syrup without any alcohol at all.

(FYI- the Honey Gardens' product is wonderful, but it contains echinacea. For most "normal" influenzas and viral problems, that's great. For Avian Influenza,... it may not be a good thing, because of it's immune system stimulation properties. That is why I wanted a recipe for just a plain elderberry syrup)

I take fresh (or frozen) elderberries and crush them in a stainless steel or heavy enamelware kettle. Add a TINY bit of water (just enough to barely cover the bottom of the kettle to keep the berries from sticking) and heat it gently over LOW heat, stirring the whole mash up until it's no warmer than 150°. The heat helps release the juice from the berries, but I'm not certain of whether high heat would possible deactivate the antiviral properties. So I'm erring on the side of caution...

I either run the whole mash through my Vitamix (BRIEFLY... you don't want to grind up the seeds) at this point, or, if they seem to have been quite macerated already, just pour them into a jelly bag and let them drain. I've found that I get the most yield by putting them in two fine mesh bags and then putting the whole thing in my cheese press and pressing it. A cider press would work well, too. But if you don't have anything like that, simply taking the bag of mash, and twisting it tightly in your hands will get most of the juice out.

Anyway, once you've got your juice, you need to add enough sugar to preserve it. I've found that a equal ratio of sugar to juice by volume is sufficient, IF YOU WILL ADD ALCOHOL to help preserve it for storage. If you have an objection to any alcohol in the mix, you then need to use a 5:3 ratio of sugar to juice... this will give you a saturated syrup high enough in sugar so it won't spoil at room temperature.

If you prefer using honey, you need to use a slightly higher ratio.... approximately 11/4 cups of honey to every cup of juice. This is because of the water content already in the honey. Or, if you want to use pure honey without any added alcohol, you need a 2:1 honey/juice ratio.

Anyway.... stir in the sugar or honey into the warm juice, until it's all completely dissolved. If you've used the lower 1:1 ratio, at this point you need to add some alcohol for preservative. I've used Blackberry Brandy quite frequently for this... hoping to get some of the astringent and stimulant effects of the blackberry in the mix. If you use brandy, you need to add 3-4 ounces per pint of syrup.

If you simply want the alcohol as a preservative, you can add 3 ounces of 100 proof vodka, or a little more than 3 tablespoons of 160 proof vodka. (we can't get pure grain alcohol here... if you can, you can use 1 1/2 ounces of that instead).

Stir it gently, and decant it into STERILIZED jars or bottles. Use the same techinques you'd use when canning jelly- except this won't be hot enough for you to expect the seals to seal completely. As long as you sterilized the jars and the lids before bottling it, it shouldn't be necessary for it to seal.

LABEL IT!! You always think you'll remember what is in those jars, or when you made it. Wanna bet!? LOL! Seriously- make sure you put the date and at least whether or not there is anything but elderberry and sugar in there.

Store it in a cool, dark place (dark is especially important if you are using clear glass jars).

<end paste>

I see I didn't include instructions for dealing with dehydrated berries in the original post. What I have done is to put a cup of dehydrated berries in a quart jar, and pour boiling water over them... to cover, plus at least 2-3" over the top. Then let set for 48 hours (in the fridge is probably best... if they begin fermenting it probably won't hurt, but you don't want to take the chance of any mold beginning to form).

After they've soaked a day or two, strain them and squeeze out every bit of juice you can. Best is some type of press, but putting them in a clean muslin towel and then twisting both ends will get probably 90% of your juice.

Then use the juice just like the recipe says...

I'll only add that I agree completely that it's vital to understand HOW (at least the very basics) each "remedy" you may decide to use works... because of the aforementioned "cytokine storm", as well as other issues. For one example, Vitamin C (which IS an excellent immune system booster- and may be contraindicated in H5N1 or other influenza strains which cause a cytokine storm) tends to dry out mucous production. So... for someone who is streaming mucous from nose and eyes, etc... it may be useful. For a person who has a hacking cough which isn't getting the congestion out.. it's going to cause more problems.

I haven't really looked into my files (I have at least two large 3 ring notebooks full of various notes from when H5N1 was first heating up), but there are several natural supplements which showed great promise in helping fight that strain off. I'll have to do some reading if this current outbreak begins to get legs.

But... I suspect that, like all serious illnesses, THE most important factor for most is going to be TLC... skilled, consistent and dedicated nursing care, maintaining electrolyte balance, hydration, calorie intake (in easily digestible foods), and staying warm with full bed rest... but (at least if the 1918 epidemic gives us any useful clues) lots and lots of fresh air. Apparently many of the survivors in that epidemic were patients of various folk who believed in "fresh air" (and back then, we still had a fairly large school of thought that "night air" contained "miasmas" which CAUSED illness). They bundled their patients up well, and then opened the bedroom windows- in mid winter!

Gotta run... more later.

summerthyme

[Samson]

BE CAREFUL!!!

While I agree that a strong immune system is a good thing, unfortunately, it's also something the H5N1 flu strain (Bird Flu) uses AGAINST you.

As in... kills you. It's called a cytokine storm, and it's believed it is what killed many/most of the 1918 flu victims.

Whenever you see reports of a 'flu (or other illness) which is making "young, healthy adults" sicker than any other group- that is a CLUE.

If you see that, do NOT use any immune system boosters.

The best herbal/OTC remedy for 'flu is still elderberry extract. It may have some weak immune system boosting effects (which is why you'll see some people screaming to not take it if we get a bird flu pandemic), but that isn't how it works... it actually prevents the 'flu virus from replicating. So, if you take it early and often (at the first hint of symptoms, or if anyone close to you (family or co-workers) gets sick, it will reduce your "viral load"... and the higher the viral load (or amount of virus in your system), the worse the cytokine storm. (given equal immune systems, etc)

My son and his wife swear by the stuff- she works in a college adminstration office, and is around people in fairly close quarters constantly. He works in an engineering test lab, and while he doesn't have quite the same exposure, he sees plenty of different people daily. They both have found that as long as they take my homemade elderberry syrup during flu season, especially when people around them are getting sick- they never get sick.

We use it here, although we're rarely exposed to much on the farm. But a couple years back, when hubby was still working off the farm, there was a nasty influenza bug going around. He caught it, as did all 5 of his co-workers. I put him on a tablespoon of elderberry syrup every couple of hours, plus Pinot Noir wine (it contains another potent anti-viral, resveratrol), and although he was VERY sick for 24 hours (temp of 103°, shaking chills, congested lungs, cough and severe muscle pain)... he was out of bed and recovering in 48 hours. Back to work after 2 days off. So... was it the elderberry? Well... of his 5 co-workers, three got secondary pneumonia and missed three weeks of work. The other 2 "only" missed two weeks. You decide...

Summerthyme

I read a book awhile back about the 1918 Influenza. One thing that was pointed out was that Alcoholics seemed to be immune from the Influenza. The reason for this was that their immune system was not strong enough to hurt them.

[SheWoff]

Your body maintains a ph that doesn't vary by much. MAYBE 5%. And you correct the ph by several methods, ONE of which is to hyperventilate to blow the acid off. Attempting to change the body's ph isn't going to do a lot.

Y'all need to do some research on acidosis and alkylosis, both metabolic and respiratory before you start talking about changing your body's ph.

Amen to that. Especially if this is all new to you. Some of you are getting into scary stuff lol.

She

[shane]

Not a prescription drug, but well worth looking into, IMO, is also acquiring a
good stock of this inexpensive (pennies per day) yeast immune supporter...

http://www.orost.org/Alternatives/0907Walt-noColdsFlu.pdf

I, and many others I personally know, have been using this, some for over
a year now, and are either not getting colds and flu's at all or with the
frequency or intensity of times past. No cytokine storm threat with it either.

My two sons, who live with me here, and one's a Paramedic catching and
bringing home something all the time, get and give each other bugs within
a few days of each other frequently; flu's, stomach viruses, fevers, the
whole gamut, but I never get a hint of any of it and I'm the only one here
that's been taking a daily pinch of Diamond V XP™ Yeast Culture. Sure,
there may be other reasons for my not getting sick too sometimes, but not
to ever get sick, I'm impressed that the yeast was the edge. Regardless,
cheap insurance at a couple pennies a day.

You can buy a 50# sack of it from a feed store...

http://www.diamondv.com/products/images/XPC_bag_2005_small.jpg

...and divide it up amongst two dozen folks, but most just buy it pre-packed
in smaller quantities off ebay here...

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=diamond+V+xpc&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Got God, Grub, Guns & Gold?
Panic Early, Beat the Rush!

- Shane

[grizzly]

.

I think you mean "acidic state"--- lower pH
Apple cider vin. raises ph, regular vinegar lowers ph.

Apple cider vinegar is alkaline.
Reg. vinegar is acidic.

[tygerkittn]

When I was hanging out at the flu forum, I decided one Father's Day to get DH a flu prevention kit. I bought him N100 masks, an air purifier that you wear around your neck, (I got it at drugstore.com) a UV wand that kills all germs in 10 seconds (for phones, keyboards, desk, etc, I got it at www.thinkgeek.com, not sure if they still carry it but amazon does now)) and some hand sanitizer to for his cubicle.
Everytime he gets flu he gets sick as a dog, so it was a good investment. He's never used the masks or worn the air purifier, but I'm sure he would if there were a pandemic.
I also bought some medical tape to make sure the masks fit tightly on the kids, if necessary. They don't make children's sizes. .

[DrG]

The pH of your body is narrowly regulated and a healthy functioning organism CAN NOT change it with the ingestion of things...biochemical and physiological fact. You can, and I have with some patients altered the pH of their urine, but that is not altering the pH of the body.

As far as immune enhancement is concerned, you have to address what part of the immune system do you want to enhance. Do you want to increase your ability to "fight" bacterial, Viral, and/or fungal pathogens. I know the answer is yes, I want it all, I want to be immune to everything, (including a bad day). But if you have an autoimmume condition do you want to stimulate that part of your immune system...of course not, you want to try and redirect that, allergies are an immune reaction what to stimulate that too?

OK, so want is the best thing to supplement with to improve my odds? I'll list some of them, but remember that the effectiveness is dependant upon the condition of the body we are working with, ie. hormone levels adaquate, do you drink a quart of rum a day, smoking, sleep 2 hours night...you get the picture.

1. Daily ingestion of probiotics
2. Daily ingestion of essential fatty acids (Omega3 & 6)
3. Daily ingestion of Non denatured whey protein
4. Adequate Vit D intake

Those are the basics, all the other things have value but are more specific to certain pathogens ie. Active hexose correlated compounds, glutamine, mushroom fractions, berries, zinc, lactoferrin. etc...

[AngelDance]

So, what about those of us who have auto-immune illnesses? Our immune systems are already on hyper-drive, just attacking everything in us, as opposed to interlopers such as the flu.

Any ideas how those with auto-immune illnesses (scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis-not the garden variety "old age" osteoarthritis, lupus, etc) will fare in a flu pandemic?

Angel

[Buick Electra]

I need to bump this so I can subscribe to this thread so I can print it out later.

[kelee877]

ok...you need to add household bleach to your list..masks and goggles...disposable clothing....

what if one of your family members comes home sick, you will need a sick room....away from everyone else so they won,t spread it...you will have to choose one person to care for the one that is sick(if hospitals get overwhelmed)....

In pandemics..there is no guarantee that anything is going to work to keep you from getting ill, unless you bug in until it is over...and pandemics can last up to 2 years....

what if this effects hydro, water supplies and day to day living...the statistics for Avian Flu was 20% or more of the population not getting to work...so many dying...and then those who do bug in for fear of getting sick....

As I have stated before in my other posts..prepping for a pandemic is alot different...

[goatlady]

The standard for making herbal tinctures seems to be 1/3 glass jar of dried herb or 1/2 glass jar fresh herb, fill with at least 80 PROOF vodka or Everclear, cap, shake, let steep/soak for 7-10 days, drain and use or store as necessary.

[goatlady]

Hey, summerthyme, stop and think gal - if one is taking that much tincture one is NOT going anywhere but bed probably, so not much danger of having a vehicle accident or even a farm equipment accident! If you are sick enough to be taking the stuff every 4 hours or so, you will be in bed which is a good place to sleep it off anyway. LOL.

[Guardian]

The reports coming from the WHO are stating that this thing attacked healthy persons.

Coke (the soft drink) is a known immune system suppressant. If this flu kills through cytokine storms, I'd stock up on Coke instead of immune boosters. It may be what saves your life.

[TonyE]

But I sure don’t recommend it! 8)

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/tonyesteves/jackandpm2sk5.gif

[The Cub]

.
Do NOT take any flu vaccines !!!!

Take Hawthorn berries in capsule form while the vitamins and herbs remain on the open market

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/era-of-peace/message/400


.

[mawmaw]

OK been looking and thinking about this for a while, just order 4 lbs of elderberries, How much will that make???

[tygerkittn]

The reports coming from the WHO are stating that this thing attacked healthy persons.

Coke (the soft drink) is a known immune system suppressant. If this flu kills through cytokine storms, I'd stock up on Coke instead of immune boosters. It may be what saves your life.


I believe that! I drink diet coke and I'm always sick, and DH never gets sick (he drinks tea.)
There are herbal immune suppressants, I'll have to look them up, I can't remember what they are but I have some in my preps for DH, who has a great immune system.

[Summerthyme]

Hey, summerthyme, stop and think gal - if one is taking that much tincture one is NOT going anywhere but bed probably, so not much danger of having a vehicle accident or even a farm equipment accident! If you are sick enough to be taking the stuff every 4 hours or so, you will be in bed which is a good place to sleep it off anyway. LOL.


Goatlady.. sure, IF you're actually ill with the 'flu!

But many people take it as a preventative... and it seemingly DOES work. But what I wouldn't want to see happen is someone to take their "flu medicine" and then get pulled over at one of those (unConstitutional, but who's counting?!) roadside checks and end up blowing a .05 or something. Heck, in some states, MOUTHWASH is enough to get you a positive breathalyzer high enough to be charged- so is some cough and cold medicine.

Sambucol isn't a tincture... it's a syrup. When I started trying to make my own "clone" I bought a bottle of it, and a bottle of the Todd's Honey Garden product (which is a really nice combination product but because of the echinacea in it, I wouldn't use it for Bird Flu), and basically started playing in the kitchen until I came up with something similar.

For too many people, there just isn't enough time in the day when they don't need to be alert, driving (or simply on the job- where they CAN'T have ETOH in their system) for the tincture to work for them unless they are flat in bed.

And, of course, it won't do children any good if they won't take it... and even diluted with a sweet fruit juice, most kids can't stand the stuff (in tincture form)

OK been looking and thinking about this for a while, just order 4 lbs of elderberries, How much will that make???

A LOT. If you make syrup, you can figure on a yield of about 2 1/3- 2 1/2 times the amount of juice you started with. I usually get about 2 cups of juice from 1 cup of dried berries, depending to a certain extent where they came from (some seem to yield more than others). I'm not sure how much a cup of berries weighs, but they are fairly light. (mine are all in syrup right now until the next harvest)

Man... I am SO not ready to even think about all of this again! Wrong time of year, for one thing! And it really feels like "piling on", given everything else going on in the world.

Summerthyme

[Ben Sunday]

.
Do NOT take any flu vaccines !!!!

Take Hawthorn berries in capsule form while the vitamins and herbs remain on the open market

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/era-of-peace/message/400


.

Folks with heart issues need to be very careful with Hawthorn. It can cause irregular heartbeat and difficulty breathing as extreme adverse effects. It contains Anthocyanin pigments, Cratagolic Acid, Flavanoid, Glycosides, Purines, and Saponins.

Hawthorn MAY have some benefit, but there has not been adequate, high quality research to say one way or another.

I see nothing in my books about any benefits against respiratory illness such as the flu.

[mawmaw]

Thanks Summerthyme!!! Ok now need to find your syrup directions?!?! HINT HINT
Lov Ya
MawMaw

[Summerthyme]

They're in post #44. It's not written in "recipe" form, exactly. I've got to get back outside... if anyone here WANTS to rewrite it into an easier to use form, go for it...

Summerthyme

[Summerthyme]

Folks with heart issues need to be very careful with Hawthorn. It can cause irregular heartbeat and difficulty breathing as extreme adverse effects. It contains Anthocyanin pigments, Cratagolic Acid, Flavanoid, Glycosides, Purines, and Saponins.

Hawthorn MAY have some benefit, but there has not been adequate, high quality research to say one way or another.

I see nothing in my books about any benefits against respiratory illness such as the flu.

Ben... I agree. I like Hawthorne, although I haven't ever seen any of those "extreme" side effects... it is probably THE safest cardiac herb extant, at least in terms of those which actually work. But like you, I haven't ever seen that it is used or useful for respiratory problems, UNLESS they are causing or aggravating congestive heart failure.

Summerthyme

[Milk-maid]

I checked a few months ago and found out the syrup by the brand name Sambucol is not made anymore. They have some sort of hybrid concoction now.

[goatlady]

Hawthorn berries are a SPECIFIC for congestive heart failure and poor heart muscle tissue. I, also have never seen it used or recommended for any type of flu/cold.

Mawmaw, if you tincture those elderberries, each pound will make 3 quarts and a pint so you are looking at about 14 quarts of tincture. Since the 1918 flu pandemic came in 3 different "waves, each person would need at least 3 quarts to get through the entire pandemic (minimum 1 quart per wave of flu) so start figuring from there. More IS better, it doesn't "go bad".

[Limner]

I love elderberry and swear by it also. If I have a cough it stops the coughing right now. The thing though is that if one is dealing with flu it is important to do as you stated above.......take it at regular frequent intervals not just once a day like a maintenance dose but take it like you would other stuff to recover........every couple of hours and I would imagine that includes going as deep into the night time hours as possible..

Would you agree Summerthyme?

A reminder - get your elderberries at:

www.herbalcom.com (http://www.herbalcom.com) or your other favorite place but just get it.....and don't forget to get plenty of vodka.

Thanks for the site, 3Ls! Easy to use site, and GREAT prices. Just put MY order in...wish I had more $$. Very kool stuff!

[KuernoDeChivo]

I just got back from lunch. I usually do not take a real lunch.

I topped of my supplies.

Liquid Echanecia
Zicam
A homeoptathic version of Zicam
Rosehip based 'C'
A fresh bottle of CS.
A big bottle of vitamin 'D'

On the way home I will pick up some Ephedra for bronchial-dialation.

[Limner]

Hey, guys.....Hubby and I were feeling funky about a week ago, and I made up some colloidal silver, added some distilled water to fill, and put it in our CVS warm mist humidifier. It really did seem to help the chest congestion. We both felt much better in the morning. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if this would be good or bad for this bug?

[Old Girl on The Hill]

I checked a few months ago and found out the syrup by the brand name Sambucol is not made anymore. They have some sort of hybrid concoction now.

Nature's Way was the original manufacturer and still makes this product. They sell the same Original Syrup, and now one more syrup called "Black Elderberry Immune System Syrup."

The only change for both products is instead of using the word Sambucol, they now use "Sambucus". The Original Syrup as far as I can see from the labeling is the exact same stuff as always - I just ordered a bit more after seeing this thread.

I have no idea why they changed the brand name "Sambucol" to "Sambucus" though.

[goatlady]

Beg to differ, old girl, the original was manufactured in Israel by a company started by the discoverer, a Jewish biochemist lady. Nature's Way was the sole distrubutor for Sambucol in the United States. The original company has since been sold, no surprise there, and the new owners have changed the original formula. I have a bottle of the original here in front of me and it clearly states PRODUCT OF ISRAEL manufactured by Hilil Israel Manufacturing, LTD, Exclusively imported and distributed by Nature's Way Products, Inc. The new owners cannot use the brand Sambucol cause the developer basically patented it in her name. I'm sure Nature's way has an iron clad contract to continue to distribute the stuff.

The ingredients on the bottle state "Sambucol elderberry Extract (berry)" and that particular ( patent) formula is what was changed to use less and cheaper ingredients than the original company used.

[Just Kate]

OK been looking and thinking about this for a while, just order 4 lbs of elderberries, How much will that make???


LOL I ordered 2 lbs earlier today...they must be having a run on this.

Thanks for the instructions on making it Summerthyme..actually I did a search and your post was referenced from another board, so I printed out and am very appreciative.

[Old Girl on The Hill]

Beg to differ, old girl, the original was manufactured in Israel by a company started by the discoverer, a Jewish biochemist lady. Nature's Way was the sole distrubutor for Sambucol in the United States. The original company has since been sold, no surprise there, and the new owners have changed the original formula. I have a bottle of the original here in front of me and it clearly states PRODUCT OF ISRAEL manufactured by Hilil Israel Manufacturing, LTD, Exclusively imported and distributed by Nature's Way Products, Inc. The new owners cannot use the brand Sambucol cause the developer basically patented it in her name. I'm sure Nature's way has an iron clad contract to continue to distribute the stuff.

The ingredients on the bottle state "Sambucol elderberry Extract (berry)" and that particular ( patent) formula is what was changed to use less and cheaper ingredients than the original company used.

You are right about the country of manufacture - I just checked the latest bottle I have and it is a product of France! I can't find anything on the label that I have that states what you said in the last paragraph, though - did you just buy that bottle that stated that recently?

I am going to google it further now and see what I can find as far as whether there has been a change in the formula to change it to less and cheaper ingredients. Do you have a source for that - thanks if you do! All I can find about Dr Madeleine Mumcuoglu is that she was born in Algeria and immigrated to Israel in 1974 (don't know if she became a citizen or remained Algerian), where she created this product (various sites call her a prominent israeli and french scientist, I assume by french they mean she was born as one of the French Algerians?). There isn't much out there on this, might not be using the right search terms.

So I have lots of questions now - is the product only made in France, or also still in Israel as well? Is the forumula different than it was - the only thing I've seen so far is a concern that it might not meet kosher standards, but nothing definitive. Is Dr. Mumcuoglu still part of the operation in France?

[Annie Maude]

I don't even know what an elderberry is.:sad:

[Yooper]

Hi Folks,

If I may offer an idea or two. First, we need to understand what our immune system is, and what it does. It's our body's "counter-puncher" and was created by the Lord to work right, and it will (if we feed it correctly).

Many people recommend taking massive amounts of anti-oxidants (such as elderberries, blueberries, etc.) to boost the immune system, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

But, did you know that the anti-oxidants that your own body produces are 3-10 times stronger than the ones we pour down our throat? Your body's 2 main anti-oxidants are Glutithione and Super Oxide Dismutase (S.O.D.). This is the way we were designed to fight off potential threats to our health. So, if we could just pump up the amount of Glutithione and S.O.D. that our body produces, we would naturally detoxify, and improve our health.

One of the things we do is drink raw goat milk. The amino acid profile in it allows for increased Glutithione production in the body. In my job, I'm in and out of Public Schools all day long working on equipment. I usually go all year long without even getting a sniffle.

But, in the big picture, it actually all comes down to what's taking place at the cellular level. If your cells aren't "hitting on all cylinders" then the various organs and systems within the body won't be either. We're all just a "big bag of cells" and if we can get the cells healthy, we'll be healthy. Healthy Cells = Healthy Body.

So, for the last few years, we've also been taking a "cell food". It's a polysaccharide/polypeptide that goes directly into the cells, increasing cell energy/function by up to 54% (Emory Univ. Independent Study). Immune systems go into "hyper mode". And, it's merely a whole food product made from organic rice. All it does is feed cells, and make them function better. Then, the body heals and corrects itself naturally. It works great on animals, as well.

So, if you'd like to learn something about all natural immune system boosting, go to: www.greatlifeintl.com (http://www.greatlifeintl.com) and click on "View Vida Cell Presentation". We don't sell the stuff ourselves, we just give it away (at our cost) to help people and don't make a dime. So, I'm not trying to "sell" anyone anything. It's a very educational presentation, as I've been doing the same around the MidWest for a few years now. Most people haven't heard of this cell food, because it's a fairly new company. I believe it will be a household word within a couple years.

Yooper

[angelwing]

OK I found an elderberry wine recipe, what's the receipe for the vodka/elderberry only? I can't make the wine

[goatlady]

Post #44 has the elderberry syrup recipe. To make ANY herbal tincture you just fill a glass jar about 1/3 full of dried herb or 1/2 full of fresh herb, add at least 80 PROOF vodka to the top of the jar, or thereabouts, cap, shake, put in a cool dark place for 7-10 days, strain and viola!! herbal tincture. Very easy, folks have been doing this for 100s of years.

[angelwing]

THank you, I couldn't find that post under kitchen, I checked 3 times, thanks again!

[Summerthyme]

Hi Folks,

If I may offer an idea or two. First, we need to understand what our immune system is, and what it does. It's our body's "counter-puncher" and was created by the Lord to work right, and it will (if we feed it correctly).

Many people recommend taking massive amounts of anti-oxidants (such as elderberries, blueberries, etc.) to boost the immune system, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

But, did you know that the anti-oxidants that your own body produces are 3-10 times stronger than the ones we pour down our throat? Your body's 2 main anti-oxidants are Glutithione and Super Oxide Dismutase (S.O.D.). This is the way we were designed to fight off potential threats to our health. So, if we could just pump up the amount of Glutithione and S.O.D. that our body produces, we would naturally detoxify, and improve our health.

One of the things we do is drink raw goat milk. The amino acid profile in it allows for increased Glutithione production in the body. In my job, I'm in and out of Public Schools all day long working on equipment. I usually go all year long without even getting a sniffle.

But, in the big picture, it actually all comes down to what's taking place at the cellular level. If your cells aren't "hitting on all cylinders" then the various organs and systems within the body won't be either. We're all just a "big bag of cells" and if we can get the cells healthy, we'll be healthy. Healthy Cells = Healthy Body.

So, for the last few years, we've also been taking a "cell food". It's a polysaccharide/polypeptide that goes directly into the cells, increasing cell energy/function by up to 54% (Emory Univ. Independent Study). Immune systems go into "hyper mode". And, it's merely a whole food product made from organic rice. All it does is feed cells, and make them function better. Then, the body heals and corrects itself naturally. It works great on animals, as well.

So, if you'd like to learn something about all natural immune system boosting, go to: www.greatlifeintl.com (http://www.greatlifeintl.com) and click on "View Vida Cell Presentation". We don't sell the stuff ourselves, we just give it away (at our cost) to help people and don't make a dime. So, I'm not trying to "sell" anyone anything. It's a very educational presentation, as I've been doing the same around the MidWest for a few years now. Most people haven't heard of this cell food, because it's a fairly new company. I believe it will be a household word within a couple years.

Yooper


Yooper... that's very interesting info, but PLEASE... LISTEN!!

For SOME types of influenza, the *worst* think you can do to improve your chances of survival is to boost your immune system!

I know, it sounds counter intuitive (or just plain nuts!) but it's scientific fact. It's why the 1918 epidemic's victims were concentrated among the young adults (24-40 years).

The manner in which a strong immune system attacks is called a "cytokine storm", and people literally can drown in their own lung secretions... if their other organs don't collapse first.

Because this new influenza seems to be rather closely related to the strain that killed millions in 1918, I'd be VERY cautious about trying to use any immune boosters at this time.

Truthfully, the best line of defense is going to be isolation- strict quarantine if it spreads anywhere near your locale.

Summerthyme

[54321...]

I've seen that elderberry might add to a cytokine storm. I am wondering if it might be "put out there" to dissuade its use?

Anyone know?

[goatlady]

It's my understanding from the available documented information/studies - elderberrys have a SLIGHT immune boosting effect, but nothing like the herbs generally used to boost the immune system. Over the last few years it seems to be a consensus that the "slight" chance of elderberry inciting a cytonic storm is so low as to not be a deterant to taking the stuff because it REALLY works in killing those Influenza A viruses in the human body. A cytonic storm happens when the viral load gets sooo high it triggers the immune systen into overdrive; elderberry tincture/syrup/ etc. actually encapsulated the individual virus keeping them from replicating and thereby keeping the viral load in the body LOW, thereby, avoiding triggering the immune system into overdrive. It's a personal decision everyone must make for themselves. As for me and mine we are going to bet our lives on the elderberry PLUS 100% isolation for the duration of any pandemic.

[mzkitty]

It's my understanding from the available documented information/studies - elderberrys have a SLIGHT immune boosting effect, but nothing like the herbs generally used to boost the immune system. Over the last few years it seems to be a consensus that the "slight" chance of elderberry inciting a cytonic storm is so low as to not be a deterant to taking the stuff because it REALLY works in killing those Influenza A viruses in the human body. A cytonic storm happens when the viral load gets sooo high it triggers the immune systen into overdrive; elderberry tincture/syrup/ etc. actually encapsulated the individual virus keeping them from replicating and thereby keeping the viral load in the body LOW, thereby, avoiding triggering the immune system into overdrive. It's a personal decision everyone must make for themselves. As for me and mine we are going to bet our lives on the elderberry PLUS 100% isolation for the duration of any pandemic.

I agree. It works.

:)

[packyderms_wife]

LOL I ordered 2 lbs earlier today...they must be having a run on this.

Thanks for the instructions on making it Summerthyme..actually I did a search and your post was referenced from another board, so I printed out and am very appreciative.

they are experiencing runs my source is out until next week at the earlierist!

I have some older dried elderberries on hand they are maybe 3-4 years old, I've been wondering if they are still usable or not, they are in the original plastic bag and have been kept in the basement where it's cold and dark.

Kimberly

[packyderms_wife]

So don't take echnechia then?

K-

[Limner]

they are experiencing runs my source is out until next week at the earlierist!

I have some older dried elderberries on hand they are maybe 3-4 years old, I've been wondering if they are still usable or not, they are in the original plastic bag and have been kept in the basement where it's cold and dark.

Kimberly

Kimberly, did you try here? I just ordered four pounds of dried elderberries from them. It's an official TOL elderberry run, LOL!:mrgreen:

I'd start soaking the old ones, if they aren't moldy smelling or anything. Can't hurt, might help, until you get the fresh ones.

[packyderms_wife]

Kimberly, did you try here? I just ordered four pounds of dried elderberries from them. It's an official TOL elderberry run, LOL!:mrgreen:

Try where? Btw it's not just the TOL every herbal list I subscribe to has threads on teh swine flu right now. I hadn't checked in on any of them in awhile and went to see what the scuttlebutt was this afternoon, if there was any, and there was. When I talked to my source this afternoon he stated that the run started about two weeks ago! :shock:

Kimberly

[momof23goats]

On the way home I will pick up some Ephedra for bronchial-dialation

Unless your a dr, or a nurse, or do have medical trianing, this can be extremely dangerous. so use with caution.
I am just going to stay on my own land during all of this. I am getting things around, so that I don't have to go off my land for one thing. I only have a couple more things to pick up. and I will be done.

[night driver]

A topical and spritz, shamelessly stolen from Blue Gecko (this stuff smells good enough to make LOTS of things not matter much)

Several years ago I developed this spritz for use in my Day Spa. It has antimicrobial, antiviral and antifungal properties and is useful for disinfecting phones, shopping carts, hands etc. It can be inhaled, used as a throat spray or for any number of cuts and abrasions:

20 drops each essential oil: Lavender, rosemary, oregano, tea tree, thyme, peppermint, lemon and pine needle (I don't always use the pine needle, it just depends on my tolerance of its odor-what can I say)

Put these in a 1l spritz bottle then fill with water (the purer the better). Shake before using.

I keep a small spritzer of this in my purse to use along with the dropper vial of elderberry for use when I'm spending much time among crowds.

[Summerthyme]

So don't take echnechia then?

K-


RIGHT. Until we know better what this virus is, and how it's "working", it's safest to avoid anything which is a strong immune system booster.


It's my understanding from the available documented information/studies - elderberrys have a SLIGHT immune boosting effect, but nothing like the herbs generally used to boost the immune system. Over the last few years it seems to be a consensus that the "slight" chance of elderberry inciting a cytonic storm is so low as to not be a deterant to taking the stuff because it REALLY works in killing those Influenza A viruses in the human body. A cytonic storm happens when the viral load gets sooo high it triggers the immune systen into overdrive; elderberry tincture/syrup/ etc. actually encapsulated the individual virus keeping them from replicating and thereby keeping the viral load in the body LOW, thereby, avoiding triggering the immune system into overdrive. It's a personal decision everyone must make for themselves. As for me and mine we are going to bet our lives on the elderberry PLUS 100% isolation for the duration of any pandemic.

Yep... that's where I'm at, and I can't tell you how many hundreds of hours I studied all this back in... 2005? Good grief, time flies... when the "bird flu" was hitting hard in China and Vietnam.

The most important thing is to start the elderberry EARLY,.. and take it often. This is one of the main reasons I have "issues" with tincture... if there is anyone with symptoms around us (as in, within a 3-5 county area) we're going to be taking the stuff at least morning and night.

Avoid giving elderberry to someone who is already very ill,(with this flu!) unless there is simply no other choice.

One tidbit which probably will fit here- IIRC (damn, this blew up FAST, didn't it? Wasn't even on my radar of problems two days ago.. I've got to get back up to speed) using steroids (cortisone, dexamethasone, etc) on the presumption that they can suppress immune function and reduce the inflammatory process *doesn't work* on H5N1. Whether or not it will help in this flu is anyone's guess at this point.

Some essential oils are strongly antiviral. Again, I've got to go back to my literature, but I believe lemon eucalyptus might be valuable in a vaporizer, and I know there are others.

I REALLY hate to even mention this, but...

If this heats up any more at all... please, make sure you have your "papers" in order. Wills, living wills and who you would want to raise your kids. It's not something anyone wants to think about... but it's important.

Summerthyme

[Limner]

Try where? Btw it's not just the TOL every herbal list I subscribe to has threads on teh swine flu right now. I hadn't checked in on any of them in awhile and went to see what the scuttlebutt was this afternoon, if there was any, and there was. When I talked to my source this afternoon he stated that the run started about two weeks ago! :shock:

Kimberly


Sorry, Kimberly! HERE: www.herbalcom.com (http://www.herbalcom.com/) Too much going on, I ment to post it and got sidetracked with a phone call. :oops:

[The Watcher]

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/health-benefits-apple-cider-vinegar.html

Health Benefits of Apple Cider Vinegar

An apple a day keeps the doctor away. So does two tablespoons of "Apple Cider Vinegar" and honey, mixed in a glass of water and had first thing in the morning.
http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/496-32med.jpg (http://www.buzzle.com/showImage.asp?image=18317)
Enlarge Image (http://www.buzzle.com/showImage.asp?image=18317)
Apple Cider Vinegar
In all likelihood, you have a bottle of sparkling clear apple cider vinegar in your kitchen. Most probably you have also heard of all the health benefits of this wonder vinegar . You use it for marinating the meat, chicken and fish. Almost all the salads that you make contain apple cider vinegar. You make a conscious effort to put in a little extra every time, so as to gain from all its good healing properties. If you are using apple cider vinegar that is clear and sparkling, the news is not very good. This apple cider vinegar does not contain all the health benefits that you have heard of.

The Real Apple Cider Vinegar
The apple cider vinegar that contains all of the health benefits is not a clear vinegar, but just the opposite. It is an organic and unfiltered vinegar . It is not a clear liquid, but has got a brownish tinge to it. If you try looking through it, you will notice a tiny cobweb-like substance floating in it. This is known as "mother", and means just one thing. This apple cider vinegar is of good quality with all the nutrients and health giving properties intact.

Just think. Would you buy a vinegar from the supermarket that is not clear, has got a brown tinge to it, and most of all you find something floating in it. In all likelihood you will not buy this. This is the prime reason why manufacturers distil the vinegar. The pure vinegar is steamed to get the sparking clear vinegar that is available at the supermarket. This steaming process destroys almost all of the health giving nutrients. What it does do is give the vinegar an excellent eye appeal.

Health benefits
There surely must be something really healthy in using apple cider vinegar, since The Father of Medicine, Hippocrates, used this vinegar around 400 B.C. for its health giving qualities. It is said that he had only two remedies: honey and apple cider vinegar.

Apple cider vinegar is made from fresh ripe apples that are fermented and undergo a stringent process to create the final product. The vinegar contains a host of vitamins, beta-carotene, pectin and vital minerals such as potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, phosphorous, chlorine, sulphur, iron, and fluorine.

Pectin in the vinegar is a fiber which helps reduce bad cholesterol and helps in regulating blood pressure. The need for calcium supplements once you start growing older is very well known. This vinegar helps extract calcium from the fruits, vegetables and meat it is mixed with, helping in the process of maintaining strong bones. Potassium deficiency causes a variety of ailments including hair loss, weak finger nails, brittle teeth, sinusitis, and a permanently running nose. Apple cider vinegar is loaded with potassium. Studies have shown that potassium deficiency results in stunted growth. All these ailments can be avoided with the intake of apple cider vinegar. The potassium in this vinegar also helps in eliminating toxic waste from the body. The beta-carotene helps in countering damage caused by free radicals, helping one maintain firmer skin and a youthful appearance. Apple cider vinegar is good for those wanting to lose weight. It helps in breaking down fat which helps in natural weight reduction.

Apple cider vinegar contains malic acid which is very helpful in fighting fungal and bacterial infections. This acid dissolves uric acid deposits that form around joints, helping relieve joint pains. This dissolved uric acid is gradually eliminated from the body.

It is claimed that apple cider vinegar is helpful in ailments such as constipation, headaches, arthritis, weak bones, indigestion, high cholesterol, diarrhea, eczema, sore eyes, chronic fatigue, mild food poisoning, hair loss, high blood pressure, obesity, along with a host of many other ailments. No wonder then many know apple cider vinegar as the "Wonder Drug".

Different ways of consumption
Please make sure that you use only the natural, organic variety of apple cider vinegar; the sparkling clear variety will have practically no health benefits.

Many call apple cider vinegar the Wonder Drug . Propagators of this wonder drug claim that the best way to have the vinegar is first thing in the morning. Mix two tablespoons each of apple cider vinegar and honey in a glass of water and drink it. This solution may taste slightly acidic, and may not seem to be the best way to start your morning, but once you know of the immense benefits that follow, it will not feel all that bad. Many find that following this routine first thing in the morning helps in eliminating constipation, which is one of the prime causes of many diseases. Constipation is also sometimes the cause of headaches - leading to a bad mood, deprived sleep, and a lethargic feeling the whole day. Once the constipation problem is solved, all the other symptoms vanish immediately, making you fresher and extremely active whole day long. Following this morning regime helps minor skin rashes vanish and the skin texture too improves, leaving you radiant and glowing naturally.

You can also enjoy the benefits of this wonder vinegar in many other ways. Use apple cider vinegar while preparing salads. Substitute the oil that is poured over a salad with this vinegar. Not only will the salad have a tangier taste, it will be much healthier too. Use this vinegar to pickle an assortment of fruits and vegetables. Marinating beef, pork, lamb, fish and a variety of meats is almost a daily process for meat eaters. Make apple cider vinegar the prime ingredient in the marinade with an assortment of herbs and spices. This marinade will not only help in flavoring and tenderizing the meat, but it also comes with all the health benefits that have already been mentioned.

Having that chilled glass of lemon juice can be substituted with a couple tablespoons apple cider vinegar and water. Some prefer the taste as is. If the taste is too acidic for you, add honey to give it the sweet tinge. Adding honey will only improve the health benefits.

Natural or Processed?
So, after reading this article, what will your next bottle of apple cider vinegar be? Will it be the sparkling clear, eye-pleasing, nutrition-less apple cider vinegar; or will it be the organic, unfiltered, "mother" laced, nutrition filled benefits.

[Lbuck]

For anyone that has a problem with alcohol in the tinctures, pour out your dose, then pour a bit of boiling water over that and the alcohol will evaporate. Just boil the water on the stove. Do not use a microwave.

[orion commander]

I would STRONGLY suggest you folks get your dried elderberries and vodka NOW while they are available, make up your quarts of tincture or syrup and have it handy. It keeps it's medicinal potency for years, but since it takes at least a week to make it, you really want to have it ready to use when you really need it. Echinacea is fine as an antibacterial but elderberry is a really excellent, proven VIRUS fighter, as there are NO preseciption medications for viral infections available.

Packyderms-wife's hubby here. I appreciate her concern. Problem I see here is that I am in a safety sensitive job here with ZERO tolerance for alcohol and drugs. And random checks. How can I take elderberry with vodka?
OC

[packyderms_wife]

For anyone that has a problem with alcohol in the tinctures, pour out your dose, then pour a bit of boiling water over that and the alcohol will evaporate. Just boil the water on the stove. Do not use a microwave.

Actually that is a well proven myth, I'll go find the links for you now.

Kimberly

[louise]

Wow! Check this out! I went to my drugstore, and asked for the activated charcoal. They had to order it for me, and did ask what I was going to use it for. I said my tomato plants loved it last year! LOL
This might be another helper if we are forced to take this shot, or get sick!

A NEW LOOK AT AN OLD REMEDY-CHARCOAL
Here is modern medical proof that the old natural remedy, Charcoal, is truly a very safe and highly efficient Natural Healing Agent. Presented here for your interest and examination are a few of the many articles and scientific papers that tell of charcoal research and its uses in modern natural healing.

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GENERAL INFORMATION
Activated Charcoal has been used effectively in the healing arts for centuries. Doctors still use it today as a healing agent, an antidote for poisons, and an effective treatment for indigestion and gas. Modern Industry also relies on Charcoal to deodorize, decolorize and purity solutions. Charcoal can do these varied tasks because of its amazing ability to attract other substances to its surface and hold them there. This is called adsorption. Charcoal can adsorb thousands of times its own weight in gases, heavy metals, poisons, and other chemicals, thus making them ineffective or harmless.

The form of Charcoal used in modern medical science is Activated Charcoal U.S.P., a pure naturally produced, wood charcoal carbon that has no carcinogenic properties. Activated Charcoal is an odorless, tasteless powder. One teaspoonful of it has a surface area of more than 10,000 square feet. This unique feature allows it to adsorb large amounts of chemicals or poisons. The powder must be stored in a tightly sealed container, as it readily adsorbs impurities from the atmosphere. Charcoal from burnt toast is not effective, and Charcoal briquettes can be dangerous because they contain fillers and petrochemicals to help them ignite.

Studies show that Activated Charcoal is harmless when ingested or inhaled, or when it comes in contact with the skin. In rare cases, charcoal may mildly irritate the bowel in sensitive persons, but no allergies or side effects have been recorded. Ingested Charcoal may linger in the colon, but this is not harmful. Many pediatricians and pediatric handbooks recommend that Activated Charcoal be kept on hand as an antidote in the family medicine chest, especially in households that include small children (5, 10, 38, 41, 53, 64).

Scientific experiments over many years attest to the effectiveness of charcoal as an antidote. In one experiment, 100 times the lethal does of Cobra venom was mixed with charcoal and injected into a laboratory animal. The animal was not harmed (15). In other experiments, arsenic and strychnine were mixed with charcoal and ingested by humans under laboratory conditions. The subjects survived even though the poison dosages were 5 to 10 times the lethal dose

[Lbuck]

Sorry, PW. I learned this from a master herbalist in 1995. Guess they didn't have Snoops then.

[louise]

Forgot to add this!
Today doctors, paramedics and medical centers use Activated Charcoal in a number of different ways:

1. to eliminate toxic by-products that cause anemia in cancer patients (33, 50, 54).

2. to disinfect and deodorize wounds (48, 50, 58, 59).

3. to filter toxins from the blood in liver and kidney diseases (31, 48, 65).

4. to purify blood in transfusions (48, 60, 65).

5. to cut down on odors for ileostomy and colostomy patients (20, 22, 48).

6. to treat poisonings and overdoses of aspirin, Tylenol and other drugs (10, 30, 46, 48, 49, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 62, 63).

7. to treat some forms of dysentery, diarrhea, dyspepsia, and "foot and mouth" disease (20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38 & 48).

8. to treat poisonous snake, spider and insect bites (38.).


Activated Charcoal is REQUIRED by law to be part of the standard equipment on many ambulances, for use in poisonings. Mushroom poisoning, brown recluse spider bites, and snake bites can all be treated with Activated Charcoal. Doctors also use Activated Charcoal to prevent and treat intestinal infections, and as a cleansing and healing agents. Jaundice of the newborn, bee stings, poison ivy reactions, and many other illnesses can be helped with Activated Charcoal.

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SUBSTANCES ADSORBED BY CHARCOAL
Acetaminophen
Aconitine
Amitriptyline Hydrochloride
Amphetamine
Antimony
Antipyrine
Arsenic
Aspirin
Atropine
Barbital Barbiturates
Ben-Gay
Benzodiazepines
Cantharides
Camphor
Chlordane
Chloroquine
Chlorpheniramine
Chlorpromazine
Cocaine
Colchicine
Congesprin
Contac
Dalmane
Darvon
Delphinium
2, 4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic Acid
Digitalis or Foxglove
Dilantin
Diphenylhydantoin
Diphenoxylates
Doriden
Doxepin
Elaterin
Elavil
Equanil
Ergotamine
Ethchlorvynol
Gasoline
Glutethimide
Golden Chain
Hemlock
Hexachlorophene
Imipramine
Iodine
Ipecac
Isoniazid
Kerosene
Lead Acetate
Malathion
Mefenamic Acid
Meprobamate
Mercuric chloride
Mercury
Methylene Blue
Methyl Salicylate
Miltown
Morphine
Multivitamins with Minerals
Muscarin
Narcotics
Neguvon
Nicotine
Nortriptyline
Nytol
Opium
Oxazepam
Parathion
Penicillin
Pentazocine
Pentobarbital
Pesticides
Phenobarbital
Phenolphthalein
Phenol
Phenolthiazines
Phenylpropanolamine
Placidyl
Potassium Permanganate
Primaquine
Propantheline
Propoxyphene
Quinacrine
Quinidine
Quinine
Radioactive Substances
Salicylamide
Salicylates
Secobarbital
Selenium
Serax
Silver
Sinequan
Sodium Salicylate
Sominex
Stramonium
Strychnine
Sulfonamides
Talwin
Tofranil
Tree Tobacco
Yew
Valium
Veratrine
Some Silver & Antimony Salts
Many Herbicides 32, 39, 40
& 4000+ chemicals, drugs, toxins, & wastes


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HOME USE OF ACTIVATED CHARCOAL
Indigestion and Gas-

A study made in 1981 shows that activated charcoal cuts down on the amount of gas produced by beans and other gas-producing foods. It adsorbs the excess gas as well as the bacteria that form the gas (57). Activated charcoal helps to eliminate bad breath, because it cleanses both the mouth and the digestive tract (38). It is also helpful in relieving symptoms of nervous diarrhea, traveler's diarrhea (Turista), spastic colon, indigestion, and peptic ulcers. For such problems take between 1 teaspoon and 1_ tablespoons of powdered charcoal up to 3 times a day. Take it between meals, as food can reduce its effectiveness. Swirl the charcoal in a glass of water and drink it down or mix it with olive oil for easy ingestion by use of a spoon (38, 47, 57, 58).

Activated charcoal is inexpensive, simple to use and is a time-tested natural remedy that has many valuable uses without dangerous side effects or contradictions, a very efficient cleaner of the body when taken orally. It also helps to purify the blood (10, 38).

Charcoal may adsorb and inactivate other medications. Usually you can take charcoal two hours before or after other drugs. If you are taking prescription drugs, check with your doctor before beginning treatment with charcoal.

You can take charcoal intermittently for long periods or regularly for up to 12 weeks.

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TREATMENT OF WOUNDS, ULCERS, AND BRUISES
Lancet, the prestigious British medical journal, describes the use of charcoal compresses to speed the healing of wounds and eliminate their odors. This article tells about the amazing ability of human skin to allow transfer through its permeable membrane and pores of liquids, gasses and even micro-particles by the application of moist activated charcoal compresses and poultices which actually draw bacteria and poisons through the skin and into the poultice or compress. Poultices must be kept moist and warm to allow this healing process to take place (59).

Make a poultice by putting 1-2 tablespoons of charcoal powder in a container and adding just enough water to make a paste. Spread the paste on a paper towel, cloth, or piece of gauze cut to fit the area to be treated. Make sure the cloth is moist, warm, and thoroughly saturated with the paste. Place it over the wound cloth-side down and cover it with a piece of plastic wrap or plastic bag cut to overlap the poultice by an inch on every side. Fix in place with adhesive tape. Poultices should be changed every 6-10 hours. Do not put charcoal directly on broken skin, as it may cause a tattooing effect (21, 23, 24, 29, 38, 50).

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POISONINGS
Activated charcoal can be used as an antidote in poisoning from most drugs and chemicals. DO NOT USE WITH THE FOLLOWING: cyanide, mineral acids, caustic alkalies, alcohol, or boric acid. Other antidotes are more effective. Consult a Poison Control Center or a doctor immediately for instructions and information in any poisoning emergency (10, 51, 52).

In poisonings, activated charcoal works by adsorbing the poison or drug, inactivating it, and carrying it inert throughout the digestive system so that it can be eliminated from the body. Charcoal is neither adsorbed nor metabolized by the body (6, 13, 47, 53).
In a poisoning emergency, if the patient is conscious, first induce vomiting if it can be done quickly. Syrup is ipecac is a commonly used emetic preparation. The dosage is 1/2 oz. for children and 1 oz. for adults. Induced vomiting will bring up about 30% of the poison from the person's stomach. Then give charcoal to help inactivate the remaining 70%. The usual dose of charcoal is 5 to 50 grams, dependent on the amount of poison taken and the person's body size. Adults should receive at least 30 grams, or about half a cup of lightly packed powder. Larger doses are needed if the person has eaten a meal recently. A dose of 200 grams is not excessive in severe poisoning cases. Powdered charcoal can be given in fruit juice, chocolate syrup, jam, or honey to make it easier to get down. Ice cream is not recommended as it makes the charcoal less effective. Powdered charcoal reaches its maximum rate of adsorption rapidly, within one minute. The sooner it is given the better the chances of successful treatment. The dose can be repeated every four hours, or until charcoal appears in the stool (3, 10, 41, 47, 48, 52, 53, 60, 61).

Do not give charcoal or anything else to an unconscious patient. Consult a doctor at once. Do not give charcoal before giving an emetic, because the Activated Charcoal will adsorb the emetic and make it ineffective. Charcoal does not work in every poisoning situation, so be sure to follow your doctor's instructions.

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CONCLUSIONS
Activated charcoal taken as a powder is the most effective form of charcoal that can be used. The best method of use is to take the required spoonfuls of powder, place them in the bottom of a cup or glass, and add water while rapidly stirring the charcoal into the water, then drink it down, along with a second glass of water to include any residue. Alternate methods listed below can also be used.

You can put charcoal into empty gelatin capsules. They may act more slowly than powder; the capsule must dissolve before the charcoal can work. Vegetarians who object to gelatin can use starch papers called Kokko-Oblates to allow convenient ingestion of activated charcoal powder. These are obtained at health food stores.

Medical researchers have discovered, that Activated Charcoal is so effective both chemically and physically, because of the it's electrical charge and the thousands of microscopic tunnels created by the process used to make it. The medical profession uses it as an antidote (10, 38, 41). It is inexpensive, harmless, and easy to use.

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DOSAGES
1 tsp./8 oz. Glass-PURE Water (1-3 times/day) - General Health
1 tsp./8 oz. Glass-PURE Water (4-7 times/day) - General Illness (Flus, Colds)
1 tsp./8 oz. Glass-PURE Water (8-12 times/day) - Serious Illness
http://healingtools.tripod.com/thn5.html

[orion commander]

Hydrogen Pyroxide (food grade) - taken very diluted. Google it.

Tobacco and a vaporizor - some of the only survivors of bird flu were smokers. Nicotene is a killer of the virus in your lungs. A vaporizor slowly heats the tobacco keeping the bad stuff out of the smoke.


My local organic food store clerk gave me a dumb look when I asked if she had any organic Red Man. Will regular Red Man work since I don't smoke? We use it for tobacco tea in the garden.

[goatlady]

Orion C, 2 possible solutions for you: Get wife to make up summerthyme's elderberry syrup for your use, secondly keep in mind that IF this stuff does go pandemic in the US you just MAY not be going to work, so who cares if there is alcohol in your system. I really don't think taking a spoonful of tincture before going to work in the morning or whenever is going to show up on any pee test anyway and that small of an amount will quickly disapate in your system. Taking another spoonful when you get home should be no problem either. You're NOT swigging this stuff all day long.

[Limner]

Louise, on a side track....an old Doc told Hubby to eat burnt toast when he had a BAD case of tummy crud. It really did help. It settles the stomach and helps absorb and eliminate some of the toxins. I had to run it thru the toaster three times until it was smokin' black.....no butter, either. Just crispy crunchy black and hard.

[Lbuck]

Limner, that burnt toast must have something to it. An old WWII doc and a vet that lived in our valley did the same thing. If we'd go to breakfast with him he'd order his toast burnt black. The new waitress's always asked him again about his toast, the older ones knew. BTW he was building a barn out of logs in his 80's, no fancy equipment, just winches. The barn still stands. Works for your animals too.8)

[Limner]

Limner, that burnt toast must have something to it. An old WWII doc and a vet that lived in our valley did the same thing. If we'd go to breakfast with him he'd order his toast burnt black. The new waitress's always asked him again about his toast, the older ones knew. BTW he was building a barn out of logs in his 80's, no fancy equipment, just winches. The barn still stands. Works for your animals too.8)

Something to remember, for sure!

[Lbuck]

Most tinctures are based on pure grain alcohol, as water or glycerin will not extract the full measure of the nutritional or medicinal properties. If you are alcohol sensitive simply add the tincture to a cup of boiling water and wait a few moments. The alcohol will have evaporated and you can now drink the tincture.

The alcohol in alcoholic beverages is ethanol, ethanol has a boiling point of 174 degree's. It is released as a vaporized gas. Water has a boiling point of 212 degree's. There are a few factors involved such as altitude, but remember that pure extracts in the kitchen also contains alcohol. When cooking puddings, for instance, the alcohol / vanilla extract vaporizes as you cook it.

[nomifyle]

Summerthyme or anyone else, what about using Epicor?

Judy

[Sunflower]

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/health-benefits-apple-cider-vinegar.html

Health Benefits of Apple Cider Vinegar

An apple a day keeps the doctor away. So does two tablespoons of "Apple Cider Vinegar" and honey, mixed in a glass of water and had first thing in the morning.
http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/496-32med.jpg (http://www.buzzle.com/showImage.asp?image=18317)
Enlarge Image (http://www.buzzle.com/showImage.asp?image=18317)
Apple Cider Vinegar
In all likelihood, you have a bottle of sparkling clear apple cider vinegar in your kitchen. Most probably you have also heard of all the health benefits of this wonder vinegar . You use it for marinating the meat, chicken and fish. Almost all the salads that you make contain apple cider vinegar. You make a conscious effort to put in a little extra every time, so as to gain from all its good healing properties. If you are using apple cider vinegar that is clear and sparkling, the news is not very good. This apple cider vinegar does not contain all the health benefits that you have heard of.

The Real Apple Cider Vinegar
The apple cider vinegar that contains all of the health benefits is not a clear vinegar, but just the opposite. It is an organic and unfiltered vinegar . It is not a clear liquid, but has got a brownish tinge to it. If you try looking through it, you will notice a tiny cobweb-like substance floating in it. This is known as "mother", and means just one thing. This apple cider vinegar is of good quality with all the nutrients and health giving properties intact.

Just think. Would you buy a vinegar from the supermarket that is not clear, has got a brown tinge to it, and most of all you find something floating in it. In all likelihood you will not buy this. This is the prime reason why manufacturers distil the vinegar. The pure vinegar is steamed to get the sparking clear vinegar that is available at the supermarket. This steaming process destroys almost all of the health giving nutrients. What it does do is give the vinegar an excellent eye appeal.

Health benefits
There surely must be something really healthy in using apple cider vinegar, since The Father of Medicine, Hippocrates, used this vinegar around 400 B.C. for its health giving qualities. It is said that he had only two remedies: honey and apple cider vinegar.

Apple cider vinegar is made from fresh ripe apples that are fermented and undergo a stringent process to create the final product. The vinegar contains a host of vitamins, beta-carotene, pectin and vital minerals such as potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, phosphorous, chlorine, sulphur, iron, and fluorine.

Pectin in the vinegar is a fiber which helps reduce bad cholesterol and helps in regulating blood pressure. The need for calcium supplements once you start growing older is very well known. This vinegar helps extract calcium from the fruits, vegetables and meat it is mixed with, helping in the process of maintaining strong bones. Potassium deficiency causes a variety of ailments including hair loss, weak finger nails, brittle teeth, sinusitis, and a permanently running nose. Apple cider vinegar is loaded with potassium. Studies have shown that potassium deficiency results in stunted growth. All these ailments can be avoided with the intake of apple cider vinegar. The potassium in this vinegar also helps in eliminating toxic waste from the body. The beta-carotene helps in countering damage caused by free radicals, helping one maintain firmer skin and a youthful appearance. Apple cider vinegar is good for those wanting to lose weight. It helps in breaking down fat which helps in natural weight reduction.

Apple cider vinegar contains malic acid which is very helpful in fighting fungal and bacterial infections. This acid dissolves uric acid deposits that form around joints, helping relieve joint pains. This dissolved uric acid is gradually eliminated from the body.

It is claimed that apple cider vinegar is helpful in ailments such as constipation, headaches, arthritis, weak bones, indigestion, high cholesterol, diarrhea, eczema, sore eyes, chronic fatigue, mild food poisoning, hair loss, high blood pressure, obesity, along with a host of many other ailments. No wonder then many know apple cider vinegar as the "Wonder Drug".

Different ways of consumption
Please make sure that you use only the natural, organic variety of apple cider vinegar; the sparkling clear variety will have practically no health benefits.

Many call apple cider vinegar the Wonder Drug . Propagators of this wonder drug claim that the best way to have the vinegar is first thing in the morning. Mix two tablespoons each of apple cider vinegar and honey in a glass of water and drink it. This solution may taste slightly acidic, and may not seem to be the best way to start your morning, but once you know of the immense benefits that follow, it will not feel all that bad. Many find that following this routine first thing in the morning helps in eliminating constipation, which is one of the prime causes of many diseases. Constipation is also sometimes the cause of headaches - leading to a bad mood, deprived sleep, and a lethargic feeling the whole day. Once the constipation problem is solved, all the other symptoms vanish immediately, making you fresher and extremely active whole day long. Following this morning regime helps minor skin rashes vanish and the skin texture too improves, leaving you radiant and glowing naturally.

You can also enjoy the benefits of this wonder vinegar in many other ways. Use apple cider vinegar while preparing salads. Substitute the oil that is poured over a salad with this vinegar. Not only will the salad have a tangier taste, it will be much healthier too. Use this vinegar to pickle an assortment of fruits and vegetables. Marinating beef, pork, lamb, fish and a variety of meats is almost a daily process for meat eaters. Make apple cider vinegar the prime ingredient in the marinade with an assortment of herbs and spices. This marinade will not only help in flavoring and tenderizing the meat, but it also comes with all the health benefits that have already been mentioned.

Having that chilled glass of lemon juice can be substituted with a couple tablespoons apple cider vinegar and water. Some prefer the taste as is. If the taste is too acidic for you, add honey to give it the sweet tinge. Adding honey will only improve the health benefits.

Natural or Processed?
So, after reading this article, what will your next bottle of apple cider vinegar be? Will it be the sparkling clear, eye-pleasing, nutrition-less apple cider vinegar; or will it be the organic, unfiltered, "mother" laced, nutrition filled benefits.


My son has been sick with flu symptoms for almost a week. High fever and headaches. ACV (just one dose) finally put a stop to the fevers! It is my # 1 cure for this pandemic.....

[KuernoDeChivo]

Something kind of scary.

I was listening to C2C last night..err was it Rense..? I was half asleep. Anyway he had a some highfalutin that knows all about these things and he claims that the reason it is killing the 20-40 year olds is because they have strong immune systems! He was saying something to the effect that the virus is so fast that it's the people with the strong immune systems die because their bodies start to attack themselves trying to purge the flu.

I though that was a scary since much of my preps involved strengthening and even "spiking" the immune system to kill the virus. :?

On a bright note, if this really does go way bad at least my children are way outside that "inverted curve" they are talking about. As long as either my wife or myself make it I have great hope for my children.

[Summerthyme]

Kuerno... I've got to shut this down and get out to the gardens, but...

DO NOT USE IMMUNE SYSTEM BOOSTERS in this epidemic until we know better what it does.

If you do a search on my name for posts I made yesterday, I explain it a little more.

Now, I've got to get busy- spring is here!

Summerthyme

[Sunflower]

Apple cider vinegar changes your body's PH level and makes it difficult for viruses to survive. I would suggest getting some today if you don't have it in your pantry.

[packyderms_wife]

Sorry, PW. I learned this from a master herbalist in 1995. Guess they didn't have Snoops then.

It wasn't snoops or snopes :mrgreen: I know this from having studied chemistry! Alton Brown also did a show on this, as did Myth Busters while some alcohol DOES burn or boil off NOT ALL of the Alcohol burns or boils off. There's much info over on one of the Mormon sites about boiling off alcohol.

And here's the kicker you wouldn't want to use water to dilute anyway as you are running the risk of the water molecules bonding with the extracted molecules - an phenomenon that happens all of the time.

It's best to have distilled water on hand for some things also.

With some tinctures you'd even want to avoid consuming milk within x number of hours to avoid issues with misbonding there as well just like alloepathic medication.

Kimberly

[packyderms_wife]

Something kind of scary.

I was listening to C2C last night..err was it Rense..? I was half asleep. Anyway he had a some highfalutin that knows all about these things and he claims that the reason it is killing the 20-40 year olds is because they have strong immune systems! He was saying something to the effect that the virus is so fast that it's the people with the strong immune systems die because their bodies start to attack themselves trying to purge the flu.

I though that was a scary since much of my preps involved strengthening and even "spiking" the immune system to kill the virus. :?

On a bright note, if this really does go way bad at least my children are way outside that "inverted curve" they are talking about. As long as either my wife or myself make it I have great hope for my children.

the person on Rense was correct!

Kimberly

[KuernoDeChivo]

Do we know for sure at this point if the victims did indeed succumb to the effects of a Cytokine-Storm?


I have been doing some quick research looking for cytokine suppression. I came across this interesting conversation on anorther forum.

In the discussion it almost sounds like there may be a "cross-over" point from the time when the virus makes it into you area where you would switch from immune system boosting supplements to things that will suppress the cytokine. It looks like these guys believe Diphenhydromine and Turmeric may help.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2739
If your sambucol supplement contains echinacia perhaps you should discontinue it when the pandemic hits near you.

If the person gets sick, there are other supplements that may reduce cytokine storm (and ARDS). Antihistamine like "Benadryl" or the generic equivalent is another "over the counter drug" we have on hand. It's cheap and available at places like Costco in the US.

Turmeric (95% curcumin) is another anti-cytokine storm herbal remedy. It should be abundant in your part of the world.

Omega 3 fatty acids are said to be beneficial.

Lipitor (10 mg/day) is a prescription drug that may be beneficial in recucing the cytokine storm. It is prescribed for high cholesterol and should be taken under a doc's supervision. The doc checks liver function to make sure you're not one of the rare people who have an adverse reaction.


BTW - if I recall from EMT school I beleive we talked a little about the 1918 flu and the sign someone was going to die was the Cyanosis (blue coloration in the skin and lips). If I recall the thing that was strange is that many people started feeling better with a partial recovery just before they went cyanotic and died. It was sad 'cause they thought they had it licked and then within 24-48 hours would die.

[AnnieOakley]

Do we know for sure at this point if the victims did indeed succumb to the effects of a Cytokine-Storm?


I have been doing some quick research looking for cytokine suppression. I came across this interesting conversation on anorther forum.

In the discussion it almost sounds like there may be a "cross-over" point from the time when the virus makes it into you area where you would switch from immune system boosting supplements to things that will suppress the cytokine. It looks like these guys believe Diphenhydromine and Turmeric may help.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2739

I head Deagle and Ott on Rense last night myself....couldn't sleep afterwards. Bought a case of Curcumin 98 awhile back. I have been hearing that FDA is trying to put a clamp on it. It is suppose to effective against cytokine-storm. Get it while you can.

[submariner640]

I remember reading about making it a while ago. Does anyone have a link or directions?

[tjndaltx]

Orion C, 2 possible solutions for you: Get wife to make up summerthyme's elderberry syrup for your use, secondly keep in mind that IF this stuff does go pandemic in the US you just MAY not be going to work, so who cares if there is alcohol in your system. I really don't think taking a spoonful of tincture before going to work in the morning or whenever is going to show up on any pee test anyway and that small of an amount will quickly disapate in your system. Taking another spoonful when you get home should be no problem either. You're NOT swigging this stuff all day long.

Goatlady, you have a PM.

[Milk-maid]

I remember reading about making it a while ago. Does anyone have a link or directions?

Look under Summerthyme's posts. She has posted it several times in the last day or so.

[LMonty]

There is a tremendous amount of research on the following thread, most of which is very applicable to any pandemic strain, not just H5N1.

http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14854&page=1&pp=40&highlight=therapeutic+interventions

My own personal strategy (and I'm a nurse, likely to be exposed) is elderberry elixer (alcohol extracted, home made, as water extracts DO NOT contain enough of the active ingredients) as prophylaxis twice daily, switching to sambucol if sick. resveratrol, curcumin, Omega 3's, and cranberry daily, changing doses to higher level sif infected. Mullein flowers, holy basil and olive leaf and NAC available if needed.

On pharmaceuticals, I like to keep some erythromycin and broad spectrum antobiotics available for my fish in case they get pneumonia. :) Cough medicine- inexpensive dollar a bottle of guafenisin is fine. Something for nausea and diarrhea. Most definitely, something for fever, avoiding aspirin, preferably tylenol or ibuprofen. Hydration fluids.

Supplies- masks, beaucoup baby wipes, paper towels toilet paper, small plastic bags for diposal, gloves. Extra sheets and linens, good use for the cheapies you can pick up at garage sales (who cares what they look like when youre sweating or getting sick on them? And who wants to do laundy when it hurts to stand up, or you already have enough to do if youre the caregiver?)

Keep in mind, we may not see full blown pandemic from this RIGHT NOW. Previous pandemics have shown earlier waves then disappeared over our northern hemisphere summer, reappearing in late fall again, possibly recombined or reassorted enough to affect attack rate, CFR and possibly vaccine responsiveness. So current numbers and the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) will probably not apply to an eventual pandemic strain.

Agreed- we do have vastly different population mobility, health care etc than previous pandemics, even the one in the 1950's. So this may not apply. But my best guess in studying this stuff is the fall and winter is what we really need to watch for. Get your stuff, get ready, if this backs off now (I give it a 50% or greater chance of doing just that), its going to lull JQP into a false sense of security. If (when) it does break back out, its going to be hard to get stuff.....

[Summerthyme]

Laura... excellent post!

I have to take exception to this, though, because it simply isn't true:

elderberry elixer (alcohol extracted, home made, as water extracts DO NOT contain enough of the active ingredients) as prophylaxis twice daily, switching to sambucol if sick.

Some herbs it would be true for... elderberries aren't one of them. Sambucol IS a "water extract", AFAIK.

The resveratrol I can also recommend from personal experience... which is why I have a carboy with a new batch of pinot noir wine working right now... we got a bit low.

The most important thing I can write here is simple:

For anyone who doesn't have SOME form of a good antiviral, plus "protection" preps- gloves, masks, bleach- at the BARE MINIMUM...

STOP READING THIS AND GET SOME!!

NOW.

It's NOT time to panic... it is PAST time to be darned sure that IF this thing goes pandemic (even if it ends up being somewhat of a fizzle in terms of fatalities)... that you are going to be able to take care of yourself and your loved ones.

Because one thing I can guarantee... within 24 hours of the first confirmed death in the US, you almost certainly won't be able to get into an ER unless you come by ambulance... and very possibly not even then. People are going to freak.

Summerthyme

[packyderms_wife]

Orion C, 2 possible solutions for you: Get wife to make up summerthyme's elderberry syrup for your use, secondly keep in mind that IF this stuff does go pandemic in the US you just MAY not be going to work, so who cares if there is alcohol in your system. I really don't think taking a spoonful of tincture before going to work in the morning or whenever is going to show up on any pee test anyway and that small of an amount will quickly disapate in your system. Taking another spoonful when you get home should be no problem either. You're NOT swigging this stuff all day long.

They do random lottery draws where he works so when he walks in the door in the am there's a good chance he'll be going straight to the clinic for alcohol/drug tests.

I'll go look up the elderberry syrup recipe to see about making some up for him.

K-

[packyderms_wife]

Apple cider vin. raises ph, regular vinegar lowers ph.

Apple cider vinegar is alkaline.
Reg. vinegar is acidic.

Hmmm well I did not know that apple cider vinegar was alkaline, I have some Braggs I'll have to go take it's pH! This I HAVE to see to believe~! :mrgreen:

Kimberly

[goatlady]

Kim, the syrup recipe is in the Elderberry FAQ in the Kitchen.

[night driver]

Thanks GL for getting this in one place:

http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?t=58232


That is both methods of creating Elderberry extract or syrup.


I'm going to pop Blue Gecko's cleansing spritz recipe up there too...

[grizzly]

Hmmm well I did not know that apple cider vinegar was alkaline, I have some Braggs I'll have to go take it's pH! This I HAVE to see to believe~! :mrgreen:

Kimberly
I thought that only those where I'm from, has to see to belive. (Show me state)

[night driver]

Here is a post I put up on TB which contains 3 links to some VERY important reading:


Here is the link to CSue's FICTIONAL best guess as to how H5N1 would have played out in 2005.



http://www.curevents.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9227

CS's thread HERE on how to handle H5N1

A semi-fictional description of how to handle H5N1....

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140635


AAAAAAND the Grail:

You LIKELY want to print off this one as it is a home nursing text for Smalpox OR flu...

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=44351

[DrG]

Apple cider vinegar changes your body's PH level and makes it difficult for viruses to survive. I would suggest getting some today if you don't have it in your pantry.

Absolutely does not...if it did you would be dead, or wish you were.

[night driver]

Doc, it's a comon misconception that one is able to change their body's ph, and that doing so changes one's susceptibility to various diseases or conditions.

I've periodically tried but have pretty much given up.

NONE of the folk who espouse these notions has a gram of understanding of acidosis or alkylosis....respiratory OR metabolic....

[DrG]

Doc, it's a comon misconception that one is able to change their body's ph, and that doing so changes one's susceptibility to various diseases or conditions.

I've periodically tried but have pretty much given up.

NONE of the folk who espouse these notions has a gram of understanding of acidosis or alkylosis....respiratory OR metabolic....

Your absolutely right...the only pH you can change is urinary pH.Certain health conditions will change systemic pH,(diabetes for example), when it happens it's an immediate trip to the ER.

[neuf08]

Well, I'll be taking some echinacea and garlic. I swear by these for boosting my immune system. Garlic (http://www.seacoastvitamins.com/product_info.php?products_id=1892) is great for this, and I'll be cooking with it more than I typically do. I'll also add in a supplement...I love the odorless ones. I think it definitely makes sense to do whatever one can to boost the immune system and take precautions to stay well.

[Summerthyme]

neuf08,,,,

NOT. THIS. TIME.

Unless, of course, you are suicidal.

I do not have time to re-type all of it again. Please... for YOUR sake, do a search on "cytokine storm" on this site.

The folks who will die from this if it follows the 1918 pattern (and it IS so far) are the ones with the strongest immune systems.

Summerthyme

[night driver]

SUmmerthyme, you KNOW that you, Goatlady, perhaps Cyberiot and I will likely type our fingers bloody saying to folks "This PARTICULAR flu IS DIFFERENT, and you do NOT want to boost your Immune System for it..." and recapping why. We'll likely get SO frstrated that we'er likely going to want to ignore the newest "Why you need to boost your immune system" thread.

And because it might save ONE person that we somehow missed in the last 3 years, we'll type it again.....assuming we're not packing or canning or....

[Beaners]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the cytokines that don't affect this flu are the same as the H5N1 cytokines? The information I've seen is for H5N1. Are all cytokine storms caused by the same group? Or does this flu need to be assessed to know which cytokines would reach dangerous levels?

Kayleigh

[bambipei]

Summerthyme, what is your opinion on Vit D in this situation? THANKS so much for all of your input!

[night driver]

Beaners the issue is that there are several different cytokines, and SOME of them are inflamatory, and some not. ALL are triggered to some extent by disease. What we're pretty much saying is that you don't want to enhance almost ALL of the cytokines your body produces.

The elder preparations, while they boost SOME cytokine production, don't (apparently) boost the INFLAMATORY ones and DO make it difficult or impossible for the viri to replicate.

[Summerthyme]

Chuck... yep. And I also believe people have the right to make their own decisions on how they'll deal with life's issues... even when they're wrong.

The problem here, is some are going to be DEAD wrong... and they're likely to take a bunch with them, if someone doesn't at least present the alternate (and scientifically correct) view. Sigh.... (it makes SO MUCH SENSE, to want your immune system to be strong. Too bad it's not right).

Beaners... AFAIK, and I'm WAY out on the edge of my knowledge base here, and stepping rapidly over the cliff!- cytokines aren't "specific" to any particular bug... they're a chemical produced in the body as an immune response. Only certain, RARE bugs trigger the overwhelming OVER-response, or "storm".

On the Vitamin D... give me a chance to try and do some reading. Something is tickling the back of my brain... but I can't remember what. Sigh... Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!

Summerthyme

[Milk-maid]

Here is what I've been pondering in my small, little, pea-sized brain.....

If this is in indeed the 1st wave which is ussually milder than waves 2+3, maybe it would be better to get the FLU now and be done with it... then we'd have the anti-bodies against the Flu when it makes it's way around the next few times. Does this make sense?

Now I'll do my best FRED impression...... So maybe the next time we see a sweaty, sick looking Mexican, we ought to rub up against him/her and make the most of it.:mrgreen:

[night driver]

Linda you have the Cytokine relationships right.

I just saw some threads on Vit D from RESQDOC an hour ago.

I'll pop the link here.

OK links:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2006-oct.shtml

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16959053

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543

Epidemiol Infect. 2007 Oct;135(7):1091-2; author reply 1092-5.
Epidemiol Infect. 2007 Oct;135(7):1095-6; author reply 1097-8.


OK they aer subscription only for more than abstracts, I expect.