Pan Flu - When will you make the call to:

[garnetgirl]

Here we are - at the precipice of a possible Global Pandemic. Many of us have studied this topic for years and have Pandemic plans in place. We are currently in that in-between phase - not sure if it will fizzle out, if it will explode, or what the CFR (mortality) rate will be.

WHEN do you make the call for your family to instigate your Pandemic plans?

Do you plan to wait another 48 hours to see how it plays out (going shopping over the weekend, attending church activities, etc...) with no personal protective gear, ie, business as usual? OR

Do you pull out your gloves, masks and antivirals and cautiously top off the tank, the groceries, the ATM - and skip your planned normal activities this weekend?

OR

Are you already sheltering in place, taking NO chances that by Monday we won't be in the midst of THE pandemic, fully blown and coming at us like a freight train that no one can stop?

What are your thoughts on how to proceed? I am currently (as of 7:11 am EST) undecided.

Thanks for your input.

garnetgirl

[kelee877]

I read and read and read; I study again up on past pandemics and see if there is a base pattern in which to follow....

We are coming up on summer her in the northern hemisphere..so virus' will be going dorminate...I will follow the news to see what becomes available...

I will not become complacent over the summer months, but more diligent in my skills and prepping.

I am going to make room to bring in more and will be doing a detailed inventory and get another fine detailed last prep run together.

I will pass on as much information as possible to get others prepared...water may become contaminated or become a way of spreading the virus..

Any food product on a store shelf could carry the virus, people sneezing, coughing on cans...wipe shopping cart handles down with antibacterial soap and possibly wear gloves to do shopping...

Bring in more N95 masks and any type of goggles...

Oh to answer your question, life goes on as usuall....

I don,t believe this is going all blown out right now....not until fall...

[AzProtector]

Here we are - at the precipice of a possible Global Pandemic. Many of us have studied this topic for years and have Pandemic plans in place. We are currently in that in-between phase - not sure if it will fizzle out, if it will explode, or what the CFR (mortality) rate will be.

WHEN do you make the call for your family to instigate your Pandemic plans?

Do you plan to wait another 48 hours to see how it plays out (going shopping over the weekend, attending church activities, etc...) with no personal protective gear, ie, business as usual? OR

Do you pull out your gloves, masks and antivirals and cautiously top off the tank, the groceries, the ATM - and skip your planned normal activities this weekend?

OR

Are you already sheltering in place, taking NO chances that by Monday we won't be in the midst of THE pandemic, fully blown and coming at us like a freight train that no one can stop?

What are your thoughts on how to proceed? I am currently (as of 7:11 am EST) undecided.

Thanks for your input.

garnetgirl


I'm waiting to see what developes over the weekend...but...we aren't going anywhere...the kids and I are moving stuff to the BOL...we have the N95's..P100's..all the elderberry extracts etc on hand...I'm just not so sure this is going to end up as "much" but prudent measures are certainly called for.

[Sassafras]

Since the flu outbreaks in the US seem to be some distance from us at this point, we'll go on business as usual this weekend. We have to get the garden in and there are a few preps I'd like to get, although we'd manage without them. This will probably be the time when I manage to hit all the stores and do all the errands that I've been putting off. Come Monday, we'll reassess to see what our next step will be.

Kelee, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of your situation. It might not hit you that hard until fall, but look at Mexico now. It certainly isn't cold in southern Mexico so I don't think this virus cares if the season isn't right. Perhaps it's the combination of the different strains that makes this unique and disregards seasonal boundaries. Stay safe and alert, JIC.

The other thing is, and I don't know if it should be mentioned here or elsewhere, when this does hit full force we need to diligent in disinfecting anything brought into our homes from the outside. Spray down any FRNs and any delivered mail with Lysol or something similar before touching. I do not plan to use my usual handbag when venturing out. I will use an Altoids tin for cash, drivers license, and keys to lessen the possibility of bringing in unnecessary germs. At that point, I'm not going to care if I have windblown hair when going out in public nor will it matter if I have the extras I carry since I'll be at home anyway. If my eyeglasses are necessary, I'll wear them. It might seem to be going a bit overboard, but if I thought I made by familiy sick because of it, I'd feel absolutely awful.

[kelee877]

Since the flu outbreaks in the US seem to be some distance from us at this point, we'll go on business as usual this weekend. We have to get the garden in and there are a few preps I'd like to get, although we'd manage without them. This will probably be the time when I manage to hit all the stores and do all the errands that I've been putting off. Come Monday, we'll reassess to see what our next step will be.

Kelee, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of your situation. It might not hit you that hard until fall, but look at Mexico now. It certainly isn't cold in southern Mexico so I don't think this virus cares if the season isn't right. Perhaps it's the combination of the different strains that makes this unique and disregards seasonal boundaries. Stay safe and alert, JIC.

The other thing is, and I don't know if it should be mentioned here or elsewhere, when this does hit full force we need to diligent in disinfecting anything brought into our homes from the outside. Spray down any FRNs and any delivered mail with Lysol or something similar before touching. I do not plan to use my usual handbag when venturing out. I will use an Altoids tin for cash, drivers license, and keys to lessen the possibility of bringing in unnecessary germs. At that point, I'm not going to care if I have windblown hair when going out in public nor will it matter if I have the extras I carry since I'll be at home anyway. If my eyeglasses are necessary, I'll wear them. It might seem to be going a bit overboard, but if I thought I made by familiy sick because of it, I'd feel absolutely awful.

Wishfull thnking on my part...gives me more time to prepare extra,s...:mrgreen:

[MtnGal]

We have one batch of elderberry ready and I started another one last night.

DD is watching for the CDC e-mail to come to the Dr she works for, checked e-mail yesterday and nothing. First case to hit NC she will start elderberry proactive because she will come in contact being in a doctor's office.

I have a feeling if this is a man made population control it won't fit the old rules and will spread no matter the season.

It's an awful feeling not to trust anymore, but knowing 'their' plans makes me wonder and more cautious.

[AzProtector]

We have one batch of elderberry ready and I started another one last night.

DD is watching for the CDC e-mail to come to the Dr she works for, checked e-mail yesterday and nothing. First case to hit NC she will start elderberry proactive because she will come in contact being in a doctor's office.

I have a feeling if this is a man made population control it won't fit the old rules and will spread no matter the season.

It's an awful feeling not to trust anymore, but knowing 'their' plans makes me wonder and more cautious.

I made up a big batch last evening too...and bought some too.

[AnnieOakley]

Know an ER doctor very well and will have inside info in my area.

[SouthernMagnolia]

Does anyone know if the elderberry capsules work as well as the extract?

I'm not too worried at this point, but will keep checking online this weekend.

Jan

[Pastor Guest]

I attended a meeting in our county February 24th of this year for
medical personnel, law enforcement, public officials and pastors
about preparing for a flu pandemic. Here is the pamphlet they
gave us.

Pandemic Flu

http://publichealthathens.com/PandemicFlu_Brochure_12pnl.pdf


I thought it was very strange that after the bird flu scare
had dropped off the radar for so long that everyone began
beating the drum about it all of a sudden.

They told us at the meeting that when it hits (not if, but when)
that about all you could do to prevent catching it was to stay at
home, wash your hands frequently and keep them away from
your mouth and nose.

[Sassafras]

Wishfull thnking on my part...gives me more time to prepare extra,s...:mrgreen:

Understood.

[kelee877]

I attended a meeting in our county February 24th of this year for
medical personnel, law enforcement, public officials and pastors
about preparing for a flu pandemic. Here is the pamphlet they
gave us.

Pandemic Flu

http://publichealthathens.com/PandemicFlu_Brochure_12pnl.pdf


I thought it was very strange that after the bird flu scare
had dropped off the radar for so long that everyone began
beating the drum about it all of a sudden.

They told us at the meeting that when it hits (not if, but when)
that about all you could do to prevent catching it was to stay at
home, wash your hands frequently and keep them away from
your mouth and nose.




The TPTB want everything to go on as normal in a pandemic situation...you will be ordered to go to work...if you are unemployed you may be ordered to work sick wards...

oh and I think back in 2005 medical workers had to sign paperwork saying the would show up on a pandemic situation...

[bobfall]

"We are coming up on summer her in the northern hemisphere..so virus' will be going dorminate...I will follow the news to see what becomes available..."

Why will this virus become dorminate, this summer?

bob

[LONER]

Oh GOOD GRIEF!!!
This is NOT a pandemic scourge of flu. This is a flu that killed 60 people in Mexico City where, when I visited there almost 30 years ago, people lived in cardboard boxes on the sidewalk, and among the sewage and filth of one of the poorest and filthiest places in the world.......and I'm sure the situation hasn't improved in the intervening years.
We don't live in Mexico City. We don't have malnutrition and worms to begin with and I think this flu is not the pandemic you are waiting for. (I HOPE!)
Don't get your panties in such a wad!

[bobfall]

" Patterns of fatality
The influenza strain was unusual in that this pandemic killed many young adults and otherwise healthy victims – typical influenzas kill mostly infants (aged 0-2 years), the elderly, and the immunocompromised. Another oddity was that this influenza outbreak was widespread in summer and fall (in the Northern Hemisphere). Typically, influenza is worse in the winter months"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

bob

[The Flying Dutchman]

Oh GOOD GRIEF!!!
This is NOT a pandemic scourge of flu. This is a flu that killed 60 people in Mexico City where, when I visited there almost 30 years ago, people lived in cardboard boxes on the sidewalk, and among the sewage and filth of one of the poorest and filthiest places in the world.......and I'm sure the situation hasn't improved in the intervening years.
We don't live in Mexico City. We don't have malnutrition and worms to begin with and I think this flu is not the pandemic you are waiting for. (I HOPE!)
Don't get your panties in such a wad!

*I notified two of my sons last night (they are on a construction job in San Antonio.

Pard, I'll be a bit disturbed with the way this disease is moving. "Course" I'm 'jess' an ignorant 'red neck news hack' - and don't know much about anything anyway.

And as for the death ratio? - It appears (from the news I can 'ferret out' in Mexico) - That it now 'appears' that it is running at 10%. And that is serious enough, to attract the attention of even "pollys".........

The Flying Dutchman

=

[kelee877]

"We are coming up on summer her in the northern hemisphere..so virus' will be going dorminate...I will follow the news to see what becomes available..."

Why will this virus become dorminate, this summer?

bob


As it was pointed out to me by another member in a thread in the tavern....Mexico has a very warm climate..this virus may be able to with stand warmer tempuratures....

Wishful thinking on my part that it would hibernate for the summer as the 1918 pandemic did.....gives more time to fine tune preps...

[Gib]

I'm worried about what they are NOT reporting as far as numbers. Mexico has those slum areas that may not have medical care or ways of reporting sickness and/or death.

[kelee877]

*I notified two of my sons last night (they are on a construction job in San Antonio.

Pard, I'll be a bit disturbed with the way this disease is moving. "Course" I'm 'jess' an ignorant 'red neck news hack' - and don't know much about anything anyway.

And as for the death ratio? - It appears (from the news I can 'ferret out' in Mexico) - That it now 'appears' that it is running at 10%. And that is serious enough, to attract the attention of even "pollys".........

The Flying Dutchman

=

The hardest part about the % bases, is that it is to expensive to run tests on everyone, so they will be guessing for a long time as to how many are infected and the true number of deaths....

I scratch my head at all those Mexicans lined up to get tested...maybe they have a fast inflenza tets they are using, but from my understanding to detect this virus it has to be sent to labs to be tetsed..there is no way labs can do millions of these tests....

Also can these easy influenza A tests catch this particular virus or with they give a false negative, because of the mutaion of theis swine flu...

[kelee877]

I'm worried about what they are NOT reporting as far as numbers. Mexico has those slum areas that may not have medical care or ways of reporting sickness and/or death.

They cant, they don,t have the numbers...testing everyone will be too expensive..

see my above post

[louise]

Wow! Check this out! I went to my drugstore, and asked for the activated charcoal. They had to order it for me, and did ask what I was going to use it for. I said my tomato plants loved it last year! LOL
This might be another helper if we are forced to take this shot, or get sick!

A NEW LOOK AT AN OLD REMEDY-CHARCOAL
Here is modern medical proof that the old natural remedy, Charcoal, is truly a very safe and highly efficient Natural Healing Agent. Presented here for your interest and examination are a few of the many articles and scientific papers that tell of charcoal research and its uses in modern natural healing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GENERAL INFORMATION
Activated Charcoal has been used effectively in the healing arts for centuries. Doctors still use it today as a healing agent, an antidote for poisons, and an effective treatment for indigestion and gas. Modern Industry also relies on Charcoal to deodorize, decolorize and purity solutions. Charcoal can do these varied tasks because of its amazing ability to attract other substances to its surface and hold them there. This is called adsorption. Charcoal can adsorb thousands of times its own weight in gases, heavy metals, poisons, and other chemicals, thus making them ineffective or harmless.

The form of Charcoal used in modern medical science is Activated Charcoal U.S.P., a pure naturally produced, wood charcoal carbon that has no carcinogenic properties. Activated Charcoal is an odorless, tasteless powder. One teaspoonful of it has a surface area of more than 10,000 square feet. This unique feature allows it to adsorb large amounts of chemicals or poisons. The powder must be stored in a tightly sealed container, as it readily adsorbs impurities from the atmosphere. Charcoal from burnt toast is not effective, and Charcoal briquettes can be dangerous because they contain fillers and petrochemicals to help them ignite.

Studies show that Activated Charcoal is harmless when ingested or inhaled, or when it comes in contact with the skin. In rare cases, charcoal may mildly irritate the bowel in sensitive persons, but no allergies or side effects have been recorded. Ingested Charcoal may linger in the colon, but this is not harmful. Many pediatricians and pediatric handbooks recommend that Activated Charcoal be kept on hand as an antidote in the family medicine chest, especially in households that include small children (5, 10, 38, 41, 53, 64).

Scientific experiments over many years attest to the effectiveness of charcoal as an antidote. In one experiment, 100 times the lethal does of Cobra venom was mixed with charcoal and injected into a laboratory animal. The animal was not harmed (15). In other experiments, arsenic and strychnine were mixed with charcoal and ingested by humans under laboratory conditions. The subjects survived even though the poison dosages were 5 to 10 times the lethal dose
Today doctors, paramedics and medical centers use Activated Charcoal in a number of different ways:

1. to eliminate toxic by-products that cause anemia in cancer patients (33, 50, 54).

2. to disinfect and deodorize wounds (48, 50, 58, 59).

3. to filter toxins from the blood in liver and kidney diseases (31, 48, 65).

4. to purify blood in transfusions (48, 60, 65).

5. to cut down on odors for ileostomy and colostomy patients (20, 22, 4.

6. to treat poisonings and overdoses of aspirin, Tylenol and other drugs (10, 30, 46, 48, 49, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 62, 63).

7. to treat some forms of dysentery, diarrhea, dyspepsia, and "foot and mouth" disease (20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38 & 4.

8. to treat poisonous snake, spider and insect bites (38.).


Activated Charcoal is REQUIRED by law to be part of the standard equipment on many ambulances, for use in poisonings. Mushroom poisoning, brown recluse spider bites, and snake bites can all be treated with Activated Charcoal. Doctors also use Activated Charcoal to prevent and treat intestinal infections, and as a cleansing and healing agents. Jaundice of the newborn, bee stings, poison ivy reactions, and many other illnesses can be helped with Activated Charcoal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUBSTANCES ADSORBED BY CHARCOAL
Acetaminophen
Aconitine
Amitriptyline Hydrochloride
Amphetamine
Antimony
Antipyrine
Arsenic
Aspirin
Atropine
Barbital Barbiturates
Ben-Gay
Benzodiazepines
Cantharides
Camphor
Chlordane
Chloroquine
Chlorpheniramine
Chlorpromazine
Cocaine
Colchicine
Congesprin
Contac
Dalmane
Darvon
Delphinium
2, 4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic Acid
Digitalis or Foxglove
Dilantin
Diphenylhydantoin
Diphenoxylates
Doriden
Doxepin
Elaterin
Elavil
Equanil
Ergotamine
Ethchlorvynol
Gasoline
Glutethimide
Golden Chain
Hemlock
Hexachlorophene
Imipramine
Iodine
Ipecac
Isoniazid
Kerosene
Lead Acetate
Malathion
Mefenamic Acid
Meprobamate
Mercuric chloride
Mercury
Methylene Blue
Methyl Salicylate
Miltown
Morphine
Multivitamins with Minerals
Muscarin
Narcotics
Neguvon
Nicotine
Nortriptyline
Nytol
Opium
Oxazepam
Parathion
Penicillin
Pentazocine
Pentobarbital
Pesticides
Phenobarbital
Phenolphthalein
Phenol
Phenolthiazines
Phenylpropanolamine
Placidyl
Potassium Permanganate
Primaquine
Propantheline
Propoxyphene
Quinacrine
Quinidine
Quinine
Radioactive Substances
Salicylamide
Salicylates
Secobarbital
Selenium
Serax
Silver
Sinequan
Sodium Salicylate
Sominex
Stramonium
Strychnine
Sulfonamides
Talwin
Tofranil
Tree Tobacco
Yew
Valium
Veratrine
Some Silver & Antimony Salts
Many Herbicides 32, 39, 40
& 4000+ chemicals, drugs, toxins, & wastes

[Pastor Guest]

The TPTB want everything to go on as normal in a pandemic situation...you will be ordered to go to work...if you are unemployed you may be ordered to work sick wards...

oh and I think back in 2005 medical workers had to sign paperwork saying the would show up on a pandemic situation...


Actually our state and local people told us that everyone ought to be
prepared to stay at home for an extended period of time. They also
said that electricity could go out.

[Micah68]

We homeschool and live in a remote, rural area far from any airports, convention centers, or other highly populated/transient attractions.

Right now, we are just cautiously watching the news and web, but are prepared to lockdown the property and self quarantine if/when we feel it necessary.

[kelee877]

Actually our state and local people told us that everyone ought to be
prepared to stay at home for an extended period of time. They also
said that electricity could go out.

ok thank you

[54321...]

I'm worried about what they are NOT reporting as far as numbers. Mexico has those slum areas that may not have medical care or ways of reporting sickness and/or death.

I have the feeling the reported deaths are the people who "matter". The homeless and indigent usually fall through the cracks because they could be dead and no one would ever know. The slum areas could have terrible infection rates and the authorities wouldn't care.:sad:

[Sassafras]

Oh GOOD GRIEF!!!
This is NOT a pandemic scourge of flu. This is a flu that killed 60 people in Mexico City where, when I visited there almost 30 years ago, people lived in cardboard boxes on the sidewalk, and among the sewage and filth of one of the poorest and filthiest places in the world.......and I'm sure the situation hasn't improved in the intervening years.
We don't live in Mexico City. We don't have malnutrition and worms to begin with and I think this flu is not the pandemic you are waiting for. (I HOPE!)
Don't get your panties in such a wad!

I don't see anyone getting their 'panties in such a wad'. I see folks being prudent and preparing for what's here now. It may not be pandemic at the present, but I'm going to do absolutely everything in my power to protect my family. Being sick is not fun!

The numbers out of Mexico keep changing. Yesterday it was 60 dead. Today it's in the teens. We can't go based on what MSM is reporting. We have to go with our gut. If your gut is telling you to lay low, by all mean do so, but please don't chide others for doing what they think is necessary. The Lord speaks to us all in different ways.

[SheWoff]

I'm worried about what they are NOT reporting as far as numbers. Mexico has those slum areas that may not have medical care or ways of reporting sickness and/or death.


Plus there are some other areas in Mexico hit with this that are very rural and reporting from those places will be sketchy at best. Expect the numbers to be just a very basic guideline coming out of Mexico, not a hard, set in stone number. This is a very fluid situation and the percentages will reflect that also. And also remember that an influenza epidemic/pandemic will come in waves with the first wave being the mildest. So say the death rate for this ends up being 6-10% of those infected. The next wave will be higher than the first. Not a good thing to think on really so I'll stop there.

She

[Sunflower]

My son has been sick with flu like symptoms for almost a week now. He is a very healthy child. High fevers in the 103-104 range with headaches. fatigue, poor appetite, chills. He is not a toddler, but middle school age.

He has been tolerating it, but the one thing that finally turned the tide was apple cider vinegar. I actually got him to choke some down (aprox. 1 tsp), and the fever finally broke.

He still doesn't feel 100%, but no fever and increased energy. ACV changes your body's ph, so viruses cant' survive.

I work as a nurse in the ER and will be taking it several times per day while this scary situation pans out. :shock: prayers to all....

[Summerthyme]

Someone asked about "elderberry capsules".

I'll probably classify them as "better than nothing"... but the commercial ones I've seen contain both berry and elderflower components, and I have serious doubts about how MUCH elderberry they truly contain. If we take 1/2 to 1 ounce of syrup (which is half elderberry juice and half honey, essentially)... how many capsules would you have to take to get the equivalent?

I just don't know, and I sure wouldn't want to be experimenting with something I didn't know worked for THIS particular bug.

Summerthyme

[bw]

Scientific experiments over many years attest to the effectiveness of charcoal as an antidote. ... arsenic and strychnine were mixed with charcoal and ingested by humans under laboratory conditions. The subjects survived even though the poison dosages were 5 to 10 times the lethal dose

What laboratory would introduce 10 times the lethal dose of strychnine into a human as an experiment? A Nazi concentration camp?

Can't answer for the rest of the article, but this is BS.

[Snowsquaw]

and Loner with respect,

the WHO- folks with a way higher paygrade than I, are VERY VERY concerned. what 'concerns' me is that if they are releasing THAT then they are running around in thier offices with thier hair on fire. (insert that funny icon here!)

[Freeholder]

Snowsquaw, have you heard any more information on the three Mexicans your employee said had died of the flu?

Kathleen

[momof23goats]

We homeschool and live in a remote, rural area far from any airports, convention centers, or other highly populated/transient attractions.

Right now, we are just cautiously watching the news and web, but are prepared to lockdown the property and self quarantine if/when we feel it necessary.
this is what i wil lbe doing as well. I am just monitering this, when it starts showing up, in more clusters, I wil not go out. meaning off the homestead. I will stay on land.

[momof23goats]

I have the feeling the reported deaths are the people who "matter". The homeless and indigent usually fall through the cracks because they could be dead and no one would ever know. The slum areas could have terrible infection rates and the authorities wouldn't care.:sad:
this is true enough for sure. and all of mexico has slums, all over the country, bad slums, bad as what india has I would say. been there saw them .and people do pick through the dumps to make a living. terrible conitions, millions live in the streets. I have seen very small children, with lice in their eye lashes.

[SouthernMagnolia]

Someone asked about "elderberry capsules".

I'll probably classify them as "better than nothing"... but the commercial ones I've seen contain both berry and elderflower components, and I have serious doubts about how MUCH elderberry they truly contain. If we take 1/2 to 1 ounce of syrup (which is half elderberry juice and half honey, essentially)... how many capsules would you have to take to get the equivalent?

I just don't know, and I sure wouldn't want to be experimenting with something I didn't know worked for THIS particular bug.

Summerthyme

Thanks for the reply, Summerthyme. I have two older, especially difficult grandkids who won't even take liquid cough medicine. I was hoping that they might cooperate with the capsules...but I'm going with your instincts. And of course, the six younger grandkids couldn't take the large capsules anyway. I don't even want to think of the trouble the adult parents will give me...until/unless they get really sick.

Jan

[goatlady]

Southern, in addition, in the herbal world capsules/powdered herb are considered the LEAST effective herbal preparation for almost all herb. The more an herb is processed i.e. crushed/ground, the faster it looses it's potency and who knows how long those caps have been packaged and sitting on the shelf. Tincture first, then teas, lastly capsules is the order of potency. You can always put the spoonful of tincture in a large glass of juice for the kids to drink, adding honey or sugar won't hurt a bit either.

[SouthernMagnolia]

Thanks for the additional info, Goatlady!

Jan