Gardening is sure trial and error, better learn while you can.......

[firebird]

I have been experimenting on my garden each season to see what is and is not working. Here is what I have come up with over the past 5 years:
-raised beds work best
-good fencing is a must
-the weeds and grass are relentless here in Florida
-weather is unpredictable, it is either drought or floods it seems
-I have had it flooded out twice and turned to dust 3 times
-the fall garden is by far the most productive and sustainable
-yellow squash get that awful white mold every time
-I am lousy at growing corn
-hybrid tomatoes are awful
-root crops absolutely cannot survive a spring garden, but are great fall/winter
-I can put in a fall garden in September and it will produce through February
-I am trying the milk approach on the squash mold, time will tell. Want the garden to be pesticide free
-going to try mushroom compost in the fall. Have done it one other time and was happy
-have tried without it for 3 years, because WTSHTF mushroom compost will not be available, so I had better learn without it.
-so far, I could not sustain my family with what I produce (mainly because garden is small) I can enlarge it at will though. I am keeping it small so I can learn and not get overwhelmed.
-summer heat is the main killer here, so the summer garden is labor intensive

Well, that is what I have learned so far. Probably forgot some things in the process. It is mandatory to garden now and learn, because WTSHTF we will not be afforded a learning curve and most will starve. Otherwise, I have really enjoyed the garden.

[Micah68]

Amen! It is NOT as easy as it looks, and even experienced gardeners have years where one crop of the other doesn't work, or things get wiped out. Having one years worth of food is good, two years is safer.

Regarding your white mold on squash, this is from one of my gardening books:

White mold is most severe when the soil surface is kept continuously moist for two or more weeks. Therefore, promoting air movement within the plant canopy can significantly reduce disease incidence and severity. Avoid dense planting, narrow row spacing, and excess and overhead irrigation. Orientating rows parallel to the prevailing wind direction can also help reduce periods of leaf wetness in semi-arid environments.

[firebird]

Regarding your white mold on squash, this is from one of my gardening books:

White mold is most severe when the soil surface is kept continuously moist for two or more weeks. Therefore, promoting air movement within the plant canopy can significantly reduce disease incidence and severity. Avoid dense planting, narrow row spacing, and excess and overhead irrigation. Orientating rows parallel to the prevailing wind direction can also help reduce periods of leaf wetness in semi-arid environments.

I tried that this year and still got the mold. It is really bad here in Florida. In one raised bed, I only planted 6 squash plants for good spacing, and as dry and hot as it is here, we still have the mold. Nuts!

[Micah68]

Can you put down a thick layer of wood chips under the plants, or something that would help drain off the moisture?

The only other thing I could think to try would be to trellis them, using pantyhose to hang the fruit so the vines can support the weight.

Best of luck

[firebird]

Can you put down a thick layer of wood chips under the plants, or something that would help drain off the moisture?

The only other thing I could think to try would be to trellis them, using pantyhose to hang the fruit so the vines can support the weight.

Best of luck

A friend suggested straw too. I think the ground cover will be my next experiment.

[Ms. American]

I always thought Florida was humid.

How's your soil drainage? Try gound watering...don't use a shower type waterer. If you must use a shower type water system, do it in early morning only, never in the evening. I'd try a cyprus mulch rather than straw because straw holds surface moisture better, where as a wood mulch holds the moisture in the ground, but it's surface drys out better. You could mulch a little deeper and have to water less. It's easier to handle than straw, too.

[packyderms_wife]

I tried that this year and still got the mold. It is really bad here in Florida. In one raised bed, I only planted 6 squash plants for good spacing, and as dry and hot as it is here, we still have the mold. Nuts!

Are they growing upwards? I found the best way to defeat the mold was to have the squash growing on a trellis or up a tree. Works very well I might add, last year was a flood year here and white mold was an issue. I finally allowed the hubbard squash to grow up into the neighbors crabapple tree and that seemed to take care of the issue - btw the neighbor while intrigued didn't mind the seemingly hostile take over by my plant.

K-

[Martinhouse]

Any time I mulched with straw, the whole bottom side of the squash, cukes and melons would rot out. I partially solved that by cutting the side walls of empty bleach and vinegar jugs into three curved pieces and putting those under each fruit. They need to be oriented to drain any water.

When the squash bugs got bad, I started trellising and that made it easier to find the bugs and the egg masses under the leaves. Two years ago, the vine borrers discovered my garden and when the vines are trellissed, there's no way to bury vines to encourage new root growth past the borer damage.

Last year I planted my squash the middle of august and hoped for a late frost. I didn't have a bug or borer problem that late in the season, but I sure had to pour on the water. I plan to try this with pumpkins this year.

This is in west central Arkansas.

I'm lucky that I never had a mold problem.

Carol

[Tesla'sMom]

It certainly is!

My big battle here in the Mid-Atlantic is weeds. There's a farm behind me growing field corn, and they practice "no till" which means they spray and spray. I think the "uber weeds" blow over into our yard!

The first thing I learned is that there's a reason they grow mainly corn around here. Not lettuce, or celery! It's a wonderful place to be a cow- lots of fields!
But the ground is "schist" full of rocks- always!

The carrots are a bust this year.
On the other hand, the turnip greens we ate were delicious- who cares about the turnips???? and the potato plants seem happy!

I've never had good luck with beans. Certainly not like my in-laws in Ohio; they live in the NW, which is full of lime and used to be lake bottom!

The best news is tomatoes grow anywhere! All they need is water, food and sun---even two tomato plants is better than nothing. We've got about 20 going, so I'll be canning for weeks!

[Midnight Blue]

I started gardening a few years ago and each year I improve upon it. I did some container gardening when we lived in an apartment and that was so-so. This year I put in two good sized gardens as well as buying a couple more grape vines and blackberry bushes. I still plan on buying some more fruit trees.

The raised rows work well. Last year I didn't space things out well at all and that was "fun". :lol: I still don't think I spaced things out enough this year but I did better than last year. Weeds are always a huge problem and almost impossible to keep up with. As it is I spend and hour or two out of everyday just taking care of the gardens and trees.

The new things I'm attempting this year are radishes, lettuce, spaghetti squash, onions, beans, and carrots. We'll see how they do.

[Micah68]

I know alot of very experienced gardeners (us included!) who are having weird trouble this year.

There's a thread about it on here somewhere.

[Liberty]

We're in SW Ohio, and the garden is popping with life. The beans, squash, beets, okra, potatoes and tomatoes are exploding from the ground. We've had lots of rain, but Friday/Sat/Sun will be 78 and full sun. No mold problems last year, and so far, so good in this year's garden.

[Ms. American]

I was late getting things into the ground due to an extra long cold spring and late frost, but also due to tons of rain. My clay soil was soup with water so I couldn't put any amendments into this first year garden till things dried out a bit. Once that happened, I got it planted and it just went wild! The tomatoes have been in the ground only a couple of weeks, have grown over a foot and are already loaded with blossoms! They look uber healthy too. I did lettuce in pots in early spring because most of the time lettuce can go into the ground weeks before most people plant them. So, I've had a bumper lettuce crop. Radishes are doing well too. Time will tell with carrots and beets due to the soil conditions, but they all popped up in record time, and are growing like gangbusters.

I tend to move around a lot and have grown gardens in a variety of conditions and weather types so this is my first year in a very wet climate with clay soil. I must say...I like it so far!

[momof23goats]

mine were slow coming up this year, the plants are doing great. I am going to plant more beans tomorrow. got to. and the carrots are up and the peas, I think I wil do morepeas, and morebeets, vabbages are doing great. wow, I am so busy this year. spinach isn't doing well. so will plant more. the lettuce is sslow comingup also. but the cukes, have taken off like a rocket.
so have the squash. things are looking up for sure. huge garden, and I feel like I am on top right now.
looks like there will be a plenty, trusting in the LORD, for a great harvest.

[SheWoff]

I agree that the best time to learn is NOW not after the fact. And this year would have been a perfect one to get started on. So many problems going on that it would keep you on your toes and teach you a whole heck of a lot!

We try to plant something different every year too, trying to learn new stuff, what grows well here and what doesn't, how to amend the soil without over doing it for our area. I have gardened in Indiana while growing up and in Florida for about 15 years while I lived there and I can tell you, the two are different as night and day! What works for most of the US will NOT work in Florida lol. It's a semi-tropical environment. That brings separate problems and a whole lot of bugs most of us don't have to worry about...like palmetto bugs LOL. Spiders in your garden that spread out bigger than your foot when you squish them and they are big, furry, nasty looking critters. Then there are snakes like rattlesnake and coral snakes, etc...not anything I worry about here in TN. And I have found that gardening here in TN is about a cross between the two other states, so thank goodness I have something to draw on when I run into problems here. But....if I hadn't gardened before...I would be sunk come shtf time.

It's going to be a whole lot more than just digging a hole and plopping some seeds in it and then canning up the results LOLOL. I get a kick out of people who say they have seeds put back. Any tools? I got a tiller! And what about gas for it? A little.:oops: Any other tools? Huh? Do you know how to can? No but I can learn. Or I'll just put it in the freezer. Where you getting the electric from? A generator. Got enough gas? No. Probably not.:oops: Ever garden before now? No, but I have seeds! And books! UGH!!! People, please take the chance and work at it now, before tshtf. Where when you make a mistake it can easily be worked out or you can get the advice from friends, family, look it up on line, ask someone on line, etc...Heck, it takes a couple of years just to get the soil right! LOL.

Anyways....this year is a mess for us too. We planted 2 - 100' rows of onions and 4 - 100' rows of potatoes. They all got flooded out. Every last one of them. Poof. Gone. The rain lasted for weeks...no sun, rain and more rain. But some years are like that. That's why we keep 2-3 years of food on hand. So that if something goes bust one year, we can try it again the next one and not have to starve. :-D But...the beans are growing like weeds. We planted navy, purple hull peas and green beans. I swear I can sit there by the garden and watch them grow lol. The okra is zooming up too right along with the beans. And the tomatoes are looking good, so the thing about putting a tablespoon of miracle gro and a teaspoon of Epsom salts down in the hole first, then cover that a little and then put the tomato plant in...works great! Even with all the rain and humidity, not one little tomato has blossom end rot. :-D We even have little pickling cukes the size of your pinky finger. :mrgreen: So far, so good except for the potatoes and onions.

Oh well...live and learn. But start learning now. That's the most important thing. 8)

She

[momof23goats]

oh your so right on
she, I just laugh when I hear that, and I have heard all your saying a dozen times for sure.
turst me on that one.
for sure.
I try to keep at least 2 years offood at all times aswell. and usually three. better that way, you don't go hungry if you have abad year, and those times do happen. like this year, very cold, and really cold nights, so seeds drowned beforethe ycame up with all this heavy rain for sure.
now i am going to replant beans, for sure, tomorrow. just some years are better than others.

[Limner]

MOM, I didn't get my beans out yesterday (we had company...) but they're going out today, too.....

[jolara]

Last year was our first garden and I have to say, so far this year is much better. I like to believe it's due to trial & error mixed in with a bit of luck as our weather has been quite wacky here in Arizona this year.

I admit, I failed miserably growing potatoes. I will try again in the fall...but I never even got a leaf from the seedlings I planted. All rotted in the cedar pots I planted them in. The potatoes in our pantry closet grew more stems than the ones that were planted intentionally! :|

I know you are supposed to rotate crops but I had read that tomato horn worms don't like Basil or Marigolds but they need to be 2nd year plants in order to repel those nasty worms. I planted Roma's and Brandywines in the same plot as last years tomatoes and once again sprinkled in Basil and Marigold seeds all throughout the tomato bed and I have not seen 1 horn worm this year on any of the tomatoes! *happy dance* The basil and marigolds are literally growing half-hazardly in between the 8 plants that are ranging between 4-6 ft. tall at this time. I must have 50 big green Brandywines hanging off the vines right now and nearly the same for Roma's. (I wasn't planning to save tomato seed this year...I was more hoping to harvest a few as last year I only grew grape tomatoes and got a couple of mid sized fruit from another type plant.)
1657

Our corn did better this year...we actually got full ears of corn instead of half. All the corn is harvested and I'm considering a second planting for fall harvest.

Strawberries are continuing to bear fruit daily. I like to give credit to the composted steer manure we mulched them with.

We have been successful with Texas sweet onions which are all harvested but 2 and we are currently growing red onions. (all were planted as sets.) Bell peppers, hot peppers, various squash, cucumber, watermelons & cantalopes are all starting to bear fruit &/or flowers. Just planted pumpkin and gourd seeds today.

Dill was very prolific too this season...It was planted with the corn and the bush beans. :? The beans were doing super until I had to yank them out due to finding a rattlesnake hiding in the bushes taking a siesta.
1656

[firebird]

The 100+ degree heat is destroying my garden this year :-(

[Fortruth2]

One thing about gardening that took me the longest time to learn was how to grow the right quantiites of things for long term canning and storage..and to experiment a bit until I found some old faithful varieties I could trust to be pretty consistent each year..

I like to try things new myself too..

For the fun of it, this year I got really blessed with an opportunity to use a square foot garden that was established on an old farm years ago..over 30 boxes set up any where from 4 x4 to 8 x 8, with two feet of brick set around each box and the entire perameter of the garden..about 750 square ft. and one garden I have to work with

I had grabbed a "poop load" of those 20 cent American Seed packets, some for 10 cents when I found them and actually tried just about everything out somewhere in this garden, to see how it would go..and everything went in as "seed" from 4/6 forward , thru 4/31.

without exception with some green peppers at the first planting, everything came up..I had over a 90% germination rate.

But the other garden where I had used my other "better seeds"..that had worked before..talk about a disappointment I had less than a 50% success rate there, and worse,..I just ended up redoing things again for a second chance, and it turned out being the seeds that were the problem, not the soil..and also the water from the rain we have had..the boxes seemed to do much, much better than the row planting with handling the rain we have had..

You should see it now ..I wish I could post the pics..its pretty amazing whats going on there..I was able to get 25-32 ft row size plantings in the larger boxes.

There has to be a plan A, B and C when it comes to gardening..when it goes well it goes great, but when a bad year comes around..it goes real bad..and you just have to go with it.

[Indigo]

Fortruth, I have also had terrific luck with those 20cent American Seed packets! Congrats on being able to plant in all those old beds! Yay!! I wish you could post pics of them, too.

I am having fun with the raised beds I built at my mom's place. They are doing just great! Our soil here in the frozen northland is thin and often poor quality. So I built raised beds and they are doing so great! I am going to build a few more this weekend. Yes, it's late to be planting them, but I could still get some short season stuff like lettuce and radishes - but the biggest reason is so that they are ready to rock and roll in the spring. :)

God bless
Indigo

[Fortruth2]

I am glad to hear you had luck with them too Indigo.

They really took off...and have done wonderfully and for such a cheap investment..I am so pleased and blessed.

There are a few of us exchanging progress with our gardens having used them and everyone is very pleased with the results.I live in South Central PA, my friends are in Colorado, and Ohio, as well as KY, we are all just amazed with them.

I had no intention of even doing a second garden, but when the opportunity presented itself, I jumped on it to just try those seeds out since I had so many of them.

Since I am on dial up I have no luck with posting pics most of the time..or I would have shared just to endorse these seeds for anyone who grabbed them.

The boxes are just great..as I can space things out and yet get a great crop in each box..everything has bloomed at this stage and is begining to bear fruit. Wasn't kidding either I tried every variety I got my hands on too..

So far the peppers, again were the only things that were cranky but I started them too early the first time, the second time they started shooting up like weeds..everything did..lol..I had to do a lot of thinning out ..now I have multiple colors as well as hot, sweet, etc. YOu can see the peppers forming now

I got in over 40 ft of corn and 50 plus feet of greenbeans, and yellow as well, tons of peas, sugar and cow..multiple tomatos, including those pear yellow ones..there are probably over fifty plants,

Tons of sqaush multiple varieties, summer and winter, pumkins, spinach, lettuce, collards, Kholabri, cabbage, brussel sprouts, turnips, beets, herbs, carrots, eggplant, broc. cukes out the Kazoo with three varieties..radishes..mellons, honeydew and watermellon..

got the spring onions, and did sets, and garlic too..so much lettuce of different varieities

I started early enough and just reseeded in three week intervals, so much will come in and then another round will be right behind it..and am going into 60 days with the first planting which is starting to go to town there.

I hit two different displays so what I did not find at one, I found at another location and here, this one, put them on sale for ten cents, then 7 cents a pack pretty early into this promo..so I went "nuts"..lol!! But only invested maybe $18.00 for the entire garden , if that..

My one friend is getting similar results too ..we are both shocked and very pleasantly surprised considering the scale of the gardens we did with just these seeds..

that they are all heirllom varieties is even better as I will also be harvesting the seeds, which was one of the reasons I wanted to try them out.

If anyone is interested in pics to see how this was set up and the results, I will be glad to email them, just pm me..



.

[nchomemaker]

People who have a stock of seeds for post shtf, thinking they will just learn then how to garden can be compared to pioneers who set out for the West with no knowledge and skills how to grow things but hey they had a stock of seeds! Course, back then most folks knew how to grow things and had plenty of experience, still must have been a learning curve with the different climate and soil.

[jsmalone1]

I just began to garden last October and live in SW missouri. I also have been through a lot of trial and error even though I have done much reading---this was a big help gardeningrevolution.com

[Fortruth2]

Gardening is all about trial and error..lol..that's how you learn and so important to keep at it .ask a LOT of questions and always keep learning..

there are so many folks that have learned a lot of valuable lessons from the trials as well as the errors and they can help ya avoid a few of them straight out of the box if you pick their heads for tricks they have learned.

One of the first things I did about 25 years ago when I moved to the Lancaster, PA area from another state was to scope and find the local veggies stands on the Amish farms and built up a friendship with the locals over their gardens and produce they sold..they loved to share information and offer advice.

I have some friends where I drop in and help them harvest their produce and they give me seeds or transplants..one family has so many elderberry bushes and trees they keep around and I am able to grab berries anytime I want because they have so many and I am not only a great customer at their nursery, I help them set up and get the nurseries opened and closed in between seasons..

When I travel in other states I always stop and chat with the locals about how they do things..

and grab some of their produce to try and harvest the seeds if I know they are unique heirloom varieties..

There is not much you can do when the weather is the issue that works against you but there is so much you can do if you just hang in there and keep at it..becasuemore often than not, it's just about learning tricks and getting your confidence after a few years at it.

Tried and true is a valuable set of skills to have and you only get them with investing a lot of sweat equity into the learning process.:mrgreen:

[Rumpelstump]

You´re spot on, It´s like architecture/art.

I´ve seen many nice gardens without a house, but never a building I would enjoy over time without a garden.

[minnie]

My Mennonite neighbor has the most beautiful garden ever. Every year he does the same thing and always has a excellent harvest. He grows everything he eats as well as raising his own cows and chickens. He told me once he spends $0 at the grocery store.
He is not much of a talker so I feel I cannot ask for much help or advice from him but I sure would love to know his secrets.
My garden was pretty much a disaster. We have been flooding here most of the summer which is unusual - usually this time of year we are hauling water.
We have some tomatoes and peppers and a few cucumbers. I just pulled my garlic which was puny.
Weeds are always a problem. I am determined next year to use plastic.
I can tell you if my kids have to depend on my garden to feed them they will be hungry. I am thankful some of the other Mennonites around here sell their produce. Pretty cheap too.

[Rumpelstump]

Just ask him, if he is a nice man he´ll be happy to share just a bit to get you started on your journey.

He may be a person who prefere solitude, but if he´s a nice soul, he just will not be able to refuse Jesus call ;)

[minnie]

Just ask him, if he is a nice man he´ll be happy to share just a bit to get you started on your journey.

He may be a person who prefere solitude, but if he´s a nice soul, he just will not be able to refuse Jesus call ;)

For some reason I am able to cry over this - you are so right.

[Summerthyme]

Minnie... I don't know your situation, or your neighbor either, so you can take it for what it's worth:

Many of the "plain people" (Amish, Mennonites, etc) tend to be quite (very) conservative. Many of my Amish neighbor men aren't very comfortable talking *one on one* with women who aren't their wife, unless they are a friend/neighbor of long standing, or for business purposes.

If you have a husband or even a son who can go with you when you approach him for help, he may be more outgoing. None of this is ever meant as a slur on the woman (IOW, they truly aren't afraid the gals might try to jump their bones, to be crude about it! LOL!)... it's just decorum, of an old fashioned type, and a sense of what is "right".

If his garden did very well under the same conditions yours didn't, (unless his is on a hill or raised beds or whatever) I suspect a large part of his "secret" is compost. The more organic matter you can add, the better things work. It helps in wet years, and dry years, and releases nutrients under conditions which stymie chemical fertilizers.

Interestingly, in our VERY cold and damp year, the "big farmers" cornfields (which get the best of everything, and normally yield very well) look horrible. The Amish cornfields- minimal chemical fertilizer, lots of manure, and minimal herbicides plus cultivation for weed control) look good... lush, dark green, growing well and even stands.

The difference is the manure, plus the lower amounts of chemicals. "Chemicals" aren't evil, per se... but using more than the minimum will kill off all the soil microorganisms which feed us. In tough weather years, the difference is huge.

Summerthyme

[momof23goats]

most of the amish around here have green houses , the ystart all of their veggies in the green house. this year because we had such a cold and wet spring, they didn't put the plants out early. they left them in the green houses, now they are picking produce, while every ones else, is still waiting.
no beans yet, no tomatoes yet, just zuke. and cukes, that is it. even my lettuce froze 3 times ,tjhe last time the second week end in june.
and believe it or not, we had mighty heavy dew on the ground early this morning. real heavy. lo9oked almost like frost, it wasn't , but it was cold out early this morning.

[Rumpelstump]

As long as you carry your own work, and keep distance on other issues of life, give it a chance.

It´s tragic all the knowledge that get lost, because we fear contact with modest/strange persons.

Just be careful in your ways, and respect borders.

[minnie]

Minnie... I don't know your situation, or your neighbor either, so you can take it for what it's worth:

Many of the "plain people" (Amish, Mennonites, etc) tend to be quite (very) conservative. Many of my Amish neighbor men aren't very comfortable talking *one on one* with women who aren't their wife, unless they are a friend/neighbor of long standing, or for business purposes.
I think this is why he acts the way he does. he is a very plain man and I can tell I make him feel uncomfortable which in turn does the same thing to me. I wear regular clothes not long sleeves in the summer too.

If you have a husband or even a son who can go with you when you approach him for help, he may be more outgoing. None of this is ever meant as a slur on the woman (IOW, they truly aren't afraid the gals might try to jump their bones, to be crude about it! LOL!)... it's just decorum, of an old fashioned type, and a sense of what is "right".

If his garden did very well under the same conditions yours didn't, (unless his is on a hill or raised beds or whatever) I suspect a large part of his "secret" is compost. The more organic matter you can add, the better things work. It helps in wet years, and dry years, and releases nutrients under conditions which stymie chemical fertilizers.

Interestingly, in our VERY cold and damp year, the "big farmers" cornfields (which get the best of everything, and normally yield very well) look horrible. The Amish cornfields- minimal chemical fertilizer, lots of manure, and minimal herbicides plus cultivation for weed control) look good... lush, dark green, growing well and even stands.
I am seeing the same thing here.

The difference is the manure, plus the lower amounts of chemicals. "Chemicals" aren't evil, per se... but using more than the minimum will kill off all the soil microorganisms which feed us. In tough weather years, the difference is huge.

Summerthyme

I do think some of my problem is cultivation. I started in a area which already was covered in weeds - tilled it planted and wallah the weeds came back. I planted cucumbers in tires and they are doing well. I did not use any chemicals or manure. Only some seaweed fertilizer I bought at the Mennonite greenhouse.
Tomatoes did fair but I planted 30 plants.
I think before next year (if there is a next year) my husband and I will pay him a visit together. He likes my husband allot but he is not as outgoing as me so he will not ask enough questions.
Thanks for your reply.

[Rumpelstump]

Just observe most of the time, and ask if you see strange things.

There is secrets to gardening/animal welfare, that many have forgotten.

A cat may be just a skin to wrap around your neck, but for some of us it is far more, and we respect it if it seem to be Human.

A plant/animal will respond to both hardness/kindness, as long as you have been treated to the same.

I´ve been raised in kindness, but do understand the hard alternative.
And that such great Humans can rise out of ash.

[251bravo]

I always thought Florida was humid.

How's your soil drainage? Try gound watering...don't use a shower type waterer. If you must use a shower type water system, do it in early morning only, never in the evening. I'd try a cyprus mulch rather than straw because straw holds surface moisture better, where as a wood mulch holds the moisture in the ground, but it's surface drys out better. You could mulch a little deeper and have to water less. It's easier to handle than straw, too.GREAT Ms.American..Sunflower gave me this advice along with a raised garden..thanks:-D

[NH Yankee]

Just when you think you are getting a handle on how to do gardening, along comes the unexpected event! This year the wild blueberry and blackberry patches we pick from have been totally destroyed by what we think are bears. Worse case is, we can not protect the patches as they are too far away and near the woods. Hope some hunter gets them this hunting season!