Boer crosses with Alpines??

[Limner]

We have Two adult Alpine does (ages two and three).....probably with pedigrees back to Noah, tho' we haven't seen the papers yet....:? (owner hasn't produced them). But they are good healthy animals and we didn't get took, and they had three pretty does, so we did OK.

We're thinking ahead to this fall, and Hubby has been wanting a buck of our own. YUP we've had our own buck before, we know what that entails, and that's doable for us. Besides, we want to be SURE we had our own male, with all the goings on that this Fall might bring.

He's thinking about outcrossing to a Boer buck, so the babies will be bigger for the freezer. What are to pros and cons of this thinking? Would the three doelings born this fall be old enough to breed and do OK? (they look great, very growthy and fiesty, but I have heard that Boer kids have big heads, and that MIGHT be an issue.....)

Let me know your experiences, please!

[Stanb999]

Well let me tell ya. IMHO!

If you add Boer here are the very real likely results.

The does will give less milk.... Expect a max of about 2 quarts a day from 2 milkings.
The does will likely develop the "extra" teet.
They will keep weight better when milking.
They will likely get bigger, taller and longer.

From the bucks..
They will not get as meaty as the father.
They will have the "dairy" look.
They will grow a bit slower than a boar but faster than a dairy breed.
They will likely get very big.. Long bones and body.


There are positives like...
They will not require much grain.
They will have "hybrid vigor".
They should be a nice mix, if your not going for top production of either meat or milk.

[Limner]

Well let me tell ya. IMHO!

If you add Boer here are the very real likely results.

The does will give less milk.... Expect a max of about 2 quarts a day from 2 milkings.
The does will likely develop the "extra" teet.
They will keep weight better when milking.
They will likely get bigger, taller and longer.

From the bucks..
They will not get as meaty as the father.
They will have the "dairy" look.
They will grow a bit slower than a boar but faster than a dairy breed.
They will likely get very big.. Long bones and body.


There are positives like...
They will not require much grain.
They will have "hybrid vigor".
They should be a nice mix, if your not going for top production of either meat or milk.

Stan, are those Boer crosses on you farm pic page? That's not so bad, then. They look healthy and happy. We don't need gallons of milk every day...but we do need some. And we need more freezer (or canner) meat. Hubby can't eat most store bought beef (too many chemicals or something, it cramps his muscles up tight...ouch...) so we were hoping for some meatier critters......

[Stanb999]

Stan, are those Boer crosses on you farm pic page? That's not so bad, then. They look healthy and happy. We don't need gallons of milk every day...but we do need some. And we need more freezer (or canner) meat. Hubby can't eat most store bought beef (too many chemicals or something, it cramps his muscles up tight...ouch...) so we were hoping for some meatier critters......

Actually not really and yes...

We have two boer/Lamancha cross girls. One red and one white with the brown head.
Then we have one that is a daughter of the red boer cross.
Our herd buck is a Lamancha/alpine cross.
Now all the kids are mostly nothing and a big mix.


If you really want meat. I'd suggest you find a really big Buck. This will be more sure than getting any old buck of a certain breed. For instance our orginal herd sire was a Lamancha but was better than 250Lbs at 4 years old. The other thing I'd do is consider a bigger milk breed. The Alpine's aren't very big at full adult size compared to some of the other breeds.

[Limner]

Thanks, Stan! We already have the Alpines......so I suspect we'll have to stay with them. But who knows??? I'll keep your advice in mind.....

[goatlady]

Lim, around here the Alpine does/NUBIAN buck cross seem to be the way to go. Nubians are bigger boned than other dairy breeds, but not a big as Boers. I have always crossed Boer bucks with Nubian does and gotten VERY successful milk and meat animals. The Nugian already has enough bone structure to carry through and compliment the Boer bone structure but not overwhelm the Alpine. For what it's worh, my 3/4 Boer buck weighed in at over 450# and literally would collapse an Alpine if he tried to mount her! You certainly don't want injured does during breeding, gal. Check around for a nice Nubian buck, you will get really nice milk plus better meat, and easier kidding than using Alpine does and Boer bucks. Just my experiences over the years.

[Limner]

Goatlady, we have had Nubians before, and all but a few were apt to get sick alot.....and that was if they weren't hanging over the fence, hollering for snacks or attention or just to hear themselves scream. Hubby called them neurotic. I called them GONE. Maybe they were just spoiled.....but they sure had a different personality that the Alpines.

[Little RedRidingHood]

I had raised and shown Toggs for many, many years. Then someone gave me a newborn baby LaMancha and I was sold. Over the years the Toggs all died of old age or were sold off and I ended up with only LaManchas. My oldest wanted an Alpine doe for 4-H and thus we ended up with a few of them in the herd.
My best friend raised Nubians and I showed her herd for her at the shows. The difference between my herd and hers was the noise level. It didn't seem to bother her at all but they drove me batty!
She gave me a couple of purebred Nubian milkers one time but after a few months I was ready to butcher them ... just too loud for me. I ended up giving them back and telling her I just wanted to stick to one breed ... truth ... I am a Lamancha person all the way.
I had two purebred boer does about 4 years ago and they were great milkers and had excellet udders with perfect size teats for my hands. I was very happy with them. We bred them to a LaMancha buck and got really nice kids out of the two does.
I think you should go which ever way you want to go on your bloodline. Hybrid vigor has alot going for it but it is usually only first generation.
Each breed has good things and bad things. It is just whatever you can handle and want to work with that counts.
I'd breed those doelings late fall- early winter depending on weight.

[Stanb999]

I had raised and shown Toggs for many, many years. Then someone gave me a newborn baby LaMancha and I was sold. Over the years the Toggs all died of old age or were sold off and I ended up with only LaManchas. My oldest wanted an Alpine doe for 4-H and thus we ended up with a few of them in the herd.
My best friend raised Nubians and I showed her herd for her at the shows. The difference between my herd and hers was the noise level. It didn't seem to bother her at all but they drove me batty!
She gave me a couple of purebred Nubian milkers one time but after a few months I was ready to butcher them ... just too loud for me. I ended up giving them back and telling her I just wanted to stick to one breed ... truth ... I am a Lamancha person all the way.
I had two purebred boer does about 4 years ago and they were great milkers and had excellet udders with perfect size teats for my hands. I was very happy with them. We bred them to a LaMancha buck and got really nice kids out of the two does.
I think you should go which ever way you want to go on your bloodline. Hybrid vigor has alot going for it but it is usually only first generation.
Each breed has good things and bad things. It is just whatever you can handle and want to work with that counts.
I'd breed those doelings late fall- early winter depending on weight.

I have to agree... It seems the more LaMancha a goat has.... The less likely to get thin and die. Our long winters are why I went with them (the others got too thin or died :-( ), They are hairy,full size,thrifty and can live on just hay.

[goatlady]

No argument from me, gal, on Nubian's vocalness!!! They NEVER shut up, BUT I only BORROW a buck for a month each year for my Fr. Alpine breeding! The males don't seem nearly as "talkative" as the females! At least, Nelson is a nice quiet buck and good with the ladies.

[Freeholder]

The Oberhasli X Boer doe I got four years ago was out of a yearling Oberhasli doe (small dairy breed) sired by a big Boer buck. The doe didn't have any problems kidding. It still wouldn't hurt to be there when your does kid (I try to always be there, as you never know).

If you are very careful about selecting your Boer buck, you can avoid the double teat problem. They don't all have it. Get a buck from a line with really good udders (for Boers), as they tend not to have great udders, and that trait will follow your does down many generations.

I like the part-Boer breeding, if care is taken in selecting the buck, because not only do they add meat to the kids, making them much easier-keepers, they also add butterfat and protein to the milk, making it a lot richer.

Or you could use a LaMancha buck. They are meaty for a dairy breed, and calm and quiet. I've heard a lot good about them, just can't get past the ears. Plus I really like the Oberhasli's.

Kathleen