Last ditch effort to save my tomato plants.

[Patches]

I posted earlier about the trouble I was having with my tomato plants. I put Epsom salt on them and it didn't help. Looking at the pictures on the trouble shooting sites, it is some kind of blight. Ga. is having a lot of problems with the disease brought on by white flies, and we have had huge amounts of rain so far this year. Anyway whatever it is there is no cure.

Since I don't have anything to lose at this point, I mixed up 1/4 cup of Clorox in a gallon of water and sprayed the leaves. A friend of mine told me his father used to do that whenever he had a diseased tomato plant.

Have any of you ever heard of this?

[TNHermit]

Can't say I have heard of this. But my tomatoes were dieing and had yellow leaves. I put Epsom salts on with wood ashes. The soil was to acid!! They are pretty much out of it now. The lower leaves are still yellow but the tops are nice and green. I also sprayed them with wettable sulphur

[Patches]

Thanks Tn, I will give that a try too. I have twenty tomato plants and only sprayed a few with the clorox solution to see what would happen. It is such a shame, the plants were beautiful and all are setting fruit.

I have one grape tomato plant and it seems to be the only one not having problems.

[Summerthyme]

CAREFUL with the wood ashes. They certainly will "sweeten" the soil (raise the pH), but they won't stop at neutral! Lime sweetens soil but can't ever get it above 7.0. Overuse of wood ashes will give you an alkaline soil, and most plants don't like that at all... (also, green beans and other bush beans HATE ashes... not sure what it is, but it's the best way to have a really lousy crop of beans)

Patches... you also might want to try using a teaspoon of tea tree essential oil in a gallon of water (add a squirt or two of Dawn dish soap to emulsify/blend it) and spray a couple plants. I used it on late blight on potatoes and it did seem to help, although I think I used it far too late for it to really do any good..

Summerthyme

[Ms. American]

I agree that a soil test fjor ph and nutrients is in order. That's the first thing.

I've used bleach on water lillys, but never tomatoes. I've heard however that peroxide is helpful for some types of fungi. It prevents the fungi from being able to stick to the plant. You dilute it 50/50 and put into a spritz bottle.

Also, if there is some sort of Blight in your area, why not give your local extension office a call and see exactly what kind of blight it is, how best to effectively treat it?

Sometimes tomato leaves will go yellow if they get a huge influx of water all at once after a dry spell, or if they've been over watered for a while (like a couple of weeks).

How are your soil conditions? Is the soil too heavy so that the roots can't get enough air (like clay soil), or is so sandy that it can't hold water?

Do they need fertilizer? Now that they are blooming and setting fruit, their need for nourishment is greater than ever. Under the right conditions, the plants stress out at this point in time.

Is it too hot and possibly getting too much sun? In hot climates, tomatoes love to be in dappled shade during the heat of the day. What happens to the leaves at the heat of the day? Do they curl up and try to close themselves? If so, the plant is transpiring faster than it can take on water.

Tomatoes should be continually moist, but not sloppy wet. Just moist. They shouldn't dry out. Make sure they are well mulched, but not touching their trunks. Leave about 2 inches from their central stem, bare. You can moisten the mulch to allow for humidity around the plants.

How are they spaced? Are they too close together? If so, they may not be getting good air circulation. You could trim lower sucker branches to allow for a little more air flow, even set a small fan low to the ground to increase some air flow if your air tends to be still.

When do you water, and how? Tomatoes do best if they are ground watered. If they are sprayed, it sets them up for blights and fungi, especially if they happen to have a skin injury.

What time of day do you water?
Do not water in the evening if you spray water (sprinkler). If you must water in the evening, use ground watering...ie open hose set to not wash away soil, allow it to soak in. But make sure that you still have a good two hours of sunshine so that leaves can dry. Removing those bottom suckers goes far in preventing rots. But, tomatoes really like morning watering so that they can sip water all day long while it's hot.

[Patches]

This year I am growing most of my tomatoes in earth boxes. We have had a lot of rain but the water level in the boxes stay at a constant level. I even bought new growing mix this year, a high quality, Fafard.

I also changed their location from last year and do have them in dappled shade. I mixed Sulfur and water this afternoon and sprayed some of the plants with it. I don't have any wood ashes, so I won't attempt to get any.

I still have a few plants in the garden and they are doing worse than any of them, Early Girl. I am growing Arkansas Travelers, Rutgers and Early Girl. So far the Arkansas Travelers are doing better than the rest, but they look like they are beginning to get it. I started those from seed.

I will see if what I did today makes a difference, if not I will try the peroxide. I appreciate all the input and I will let you know how it goes.

[packyderms_wife]

Sounds like you have a copper deficency in your soil! We're battling white flies and aphids here right now as well as japanese beetles. As soon as it'd done raining tomorrow i'm spraying with Neem oil again.

Kimberly

[Animal Lover]

Get someone who smokes and beg their butts. Put them in a gallon jug and let them sit in warm water until you get an awful brown looking water. Then spray the leaves. That will help you a lot. I have done this to kill white fly and it has always worked. But do it quick, because the white fly will spread even to your house plants. Good luck, AL

[dilligaf]

Since I don't have anything to lose at this point, I mixed up 1/4 cup of Clorox in a gallon of water and sprayed the leaves.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/images/smilies/eek.gif its a good thing you didnt have anything to lose. my money is on your mater plants being dead right here soon.

not sure what your problem is as i didnt read the other thread but generally speaking when the moisture begins to take hold of the maters in this area we have found that putting calcium in the soil really helps them. we usually crumble up old sheetrock around them.

of course the only problem we have with the moisture usually is blossom end rot.

[dilligaf]

Get someone who smokes and beg their butts. Put them in a gallon jug and let them sit in warm water until you get an awful brown looking water. Then spray the leaves. That will help you a lot. I have done this to kill white fly and it has always worked. But do it quick, because the white fly will spread even to your house plants. Good luck, AL

tomatoes get tobacco mosaic from simply handling them with nicotine stained hands. if you did that i would think it would be disastrous..

if you have sprayed tomato plants with that and they survived i am amazed..

[momof23goats]

I put egg shells around them vrumbled up, and I just use 7 on them. works well enough. in fact I got to put it on them tomorrow.

[Patches]

What ever it is, it's now attacking my angel trumpets. The top leaves are curling.

[Summerthyme]

"Angel trumpets"? Nightshade species?

You've got a blight or wilt. Probably "early blight" which attacks most nightshades.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=early+blight&aq=f&oq=

See if these pics look like it.

This is LATE Blight:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=late%20blight&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Other possibilities are verticillium wilt:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=verticillium+wilt&aq=f&oq=

DO NOT use tobacco on nightshade plants... it will kill insects, but it may also infect the plants.

One thing to keep in mind... if this is blight, it's HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS to other plants (potatoes, tomatoes, peppers and other nightshades). And it can hang around in plant material from year to year.

If you decide to give up on these plants, you need to BURN them, and then disinfect the earth boxes or pots (or tomato cages and anything else they were touching). A copper containing fungicide might help.

I'll put in a plug for my all time favorite tomato, and the ONLY variety (including "disease resistant hybrids) I've ever seen recover on it's own from late blight and then go on to produce a ton more fruit. It's called Royal Chico, it's an older paste type which used to be quite common for commercial growers. It's a paste tomato, but is juicy enough to be tasty. And I've had it produce very well in a year where EVERY OTHER tomato plant died of blight before ripening a single fruit.

Summerthyme

[Patches]

Thank you Summerthyme, I will try the copper and I will see if I can find some Royal Chico seeds and have them on hand for next year.

I am so disappointed, I was looking foreward to a great crop of tomatoes this year. I appreciate everyone trying to help me sort out this problem.

[Summerthyme]

I do understand... there is little more frustrating than having lush, healthy plants, having babied them for weeks, seeing a ton of fruit forming, and then watching them sicken and die!

Baker Creek seeds carries the Royal Chicos... they are an open pollinated variety, so if you buy a packet, you shouldn't ever need to buy another!

You may want to look around for some bulk tomatoes to can for your own use... depending on where you are, you can probably find some at a pretty decent price. Also, have you considered starting a few new plants from seed, disinfecting the boxes, and growing a fall crop? I could likely even get away with that here in the frozen north, although I'd have to choose a short season variety and probably provide protection for a few weeks at the end of the season.

These type issues are why, first, I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read people posting "I've got my cans of "survival seeds", and if TSHTF, I'll just grow my own food"!!! and second, why I keep repeating "if you get a good crop of anything storable, put up TWO YEARS WORTH (at least, and for most things, I'll can up three years worth... the exception being something like beets which tend to lose quality after a couple years)

My youngest son told me on the phone the other day "Mom, if we had to survive off our garden, we'd starve"!! LOL!... and he grew up on the farm, helping me with everything from planting to canning. (as a side note, it's funny how freakin' smart I got after they grew up and left home! ROTFLMAO! They use me as a human encyclopedia.. I once spent a half hour on the phone giving planting instructions for every vegetable variety they had seeds for... out of my head. It's even funnier when I note that the kid who gave me the most grief about "living Amish" and "cooking from scratch", now begs for our "good" homegrown veggies and fruit. They all tell us they can tell the difference between what they can buy in the store and what they grew up eating, and they're not impressed...

Summerthyme

[Patches]

I sprayed this morning.

Some very sage advice Summerthyme, that I will follow. If I had your phone number I'd keep you on speed dial.

[Ms. American]

If the leaves are curling/deformed...sounds like something is destroying the roots. It could be nematodes, could be a blight/disease of some sort, could be that the soil isn't really all that good.

I still think that your best bet is to call your local extension office for a definitive diagnosis. If there's a blight in your area, there may be more elsewhere being carried on the wind. The extension office needs to know that so they can determine the extent of it so that they can work with local farms in the area.

Also, the extension office just might know how to remedy the ailment. YOU need to know because if it's fungus, or some sorts of blight, you may need to dispose of ALL of your garden tools, gloves, shoes and clothing. Clorox won't cut it..btdt.

Try googling "tomatoe diseases" or "vegetable diseases" or variations. You might find a picture that matches. But please, utilize your local extension office. You pay enough taxes, put your money to good use!

And the thing about tobacco...very true. It can cause mosaic virus which effects all kinds of plants, some in different ways.

If you can eliminate soil and growing condition issues, nutrient and water issues, moisture/heat issues, then the next thing to look at is pests and diseases. Get help.

[Summerthyme]

YOU need to know because if it's fungus, or some sorts of blight, you may need to dispose of ALL of your garden tools, gloves, shoes and clothing. Clorox won't cut it..btdt.


WTF??? Good grief... if this was true, farmers wouldn't own any equipment, and they'd be farming stark naked!... we'd be throwing away everything from combines to clothing, on a very steady basis.

Disease spores are a fact of life in gardens and on farms. Blight is more or less endemic, and while Cooperative extension will likely have some ideas, it's not a "reportable disease"... believe me, they KNOW it's out there. And you certainly CAN disinfect equipment, etc. What you can't do very well is sterilize soil, and the soil is where the blight spores hang out off season. Also, if YOU have it, the neighbors almost certainly do... so tossing out equipment, etc, is an exercise in futility.

It's most important to realize that certain conditions contribute to these problems... high humidity is the BIG one. Some diseases prefer cool, damp weather... others thrive in warm and damp. Avoiding ANY handling of wet plants is crucial, and can be difficult in some years. I've had too many seasons where I've had to decide whether a bad weed load is less dangerous to my eventual crop than the risk of going into a wet garden and weeding- and possibly spreading disease.

Burning affected plants, then using a good sprayer and spraying a chlorox solution or other antifungal disinfectant (that would be a good question for the co-op extension folks... I'm sure there are sprays designed for disinfecting greenhouses and equipment) should be plenty adequate. In the garden, it's important to rotate crops, and that means rotating CLASSES of plants... in other words, don't plant peppers where you had tomatoes last year- they're both nightshades. Ditto potatoes and eggplant. The same goes for all the cole crops- cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, etc... they're all susceptible to the same pests and diseases. It's darned hard to rotate crops well enough in a small garden. I finally ended up moving my main garden two years ago... it had been in continuous mixed vegetables for over 25 years, and I couldn't grow potatoes or tomatoes any more without huge blight problems. I moved it to a half acre patch which is highly fertile but very rocky, and grow sweet corn on the old patch. In another couple years, I'll probably switch back.

Farming may not be rocket science, but it's one heck of a lot more complicated than many people realize.

Summerthyme

[Ms. American]

WTF??? Good grief... if this was true, farmers wouldn't own any equipment, and they'd be farming stark naked!... we'd be throwing away everything from combines to clothing, on a very steady basis.

And it's also why big farmers struggle year after year with fungus and wilt, and have become so very dependant upon chemical gardening, as well as bioengineered plants/seeds. Greenhouses can be wiped out in very short time.

There's been a lot of work done in finding ways TO sterilize soil in the fields. Run a google..it's mind boggling. Start with fusarium wilt.

Some of the blights/fungus/wilts we have floating around these days are a disaster.

[Summerthyme]

Ms American... I AM a farmer. Believe me... those molds, wilts, blights and all have been around since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden.

I'm not making light of them, but your advice was HORRIBLE... I'd hate to see someone think they had to follow it.

MOST TIME, you can avoid most of the problems with simple management... rotation schedules, common sense (clean the machinery well between seasons, if not between fields) and JUDACIOUS use of treatments (either organic or chemical, as needed) to control these.

But occasionally, weather hits that will negate every effort. There is likely NO working farm fields which don't have most of the assorted blights, wilts, etc in their soil. Keeping a healthy organic matter level encourages a healthy, active soil population of everything from beneficial nematodes to bacteria and fungi which usually will keep the various disease organisms in balance, if not eliminate them.

The truth is, there is never a year where you won't have SOME problems... it's usually possible to keep from losing an entire crop, but some loss IS going to happen.

And there is NO way to "sterilize" our lives or equipment or anything else enough to change that, at least not down here on Earth.

Summerthyme

[shortstop]

I think my container tomatoes have Wilt, curling yellowing leaves and such... do I dump the dirt and use kitchen safe clorox to clean out the container... they still have a few tomatoes are they safe? And i have bell peppers with one in the same container... are they goners too?

[AmericanPatriot]

I just read that yellowing leaves is caused by a need for more nitrogen
Hope this helps

[SheWoff]

I just read that yellowing leaves is caused by a need for more nitrogen
Hope this helps

Easiest way to get that into the soil quick? Miracle - gro? Mine started doing that about two days ago. Or could it just be from the extreme heat?

She

[Summerthyme]

Curling and yellowing MAY not be a disease. As pointed out above, it can be a nitrogen deficiency, or too much water, or not enough water, or a bunch of other possibilities.

I know of no wilt or virus which makes the fruit unsafe to eat... some can turn them bitter, or start them spoiling, though...

Miracle Gro as a FOLIAR SPRAY (sprayed directly onto the leaves and absorbed directly) is the quickest way to get nutrients into a stressed plant. As long as you don't see lesions (round spots, mushy places, etc) on the leaves, it's very possibly weather stress or nutrient issues.

Summerthyme

[shortstop]

Oh. I'm so glad to hear this news... I didnt want chop them down... Miracle-Gro it is... Thank you guys :-D

[momof23goats]

jmine were swimming in water, then yesterday, mud, now it is raining again. so they will probably drown.

[Animal Lover]

Oh Summer you are so right!!! We had a soil sample done at the Dept. of Agriculture in our state. Too much wood ash. My hubby had me dumping in the garden and then raking it around. Green beans wouldn't even grow. We have planted grass on that spot now. Have gone to raised beds. They seem to be doing well even with all the rain. AL

[Barry Natchitoches]

Get someone who smokes and beg their butts. Put them in a gallon jug and let them sit in warm water until you get an awful brown looking water. Then spray the leaves. That will help you a lot. I have done this to kill white fly and it has always worked. But do it quick, because the white fly will spread even to your house plants. Good luck, AL



PLEASE DO ***NOT*** FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!!!!!!!


I am a Master Gardener who specializes in orgranic food production. I have also grown tomatoes successfully for over a decade now -- to the point where my 20 tomato plants are running my family out of my home, they are producing so many right now (blight or no blight).


That having been said, please do NOT use tobacco juice on tomato plants!


The reason you do NOT want to do this is that tomatoes are susceptible to the tobacco mosaic virus. You will just be exchanging one fatal problem for another.


What should you do instead?


Well, if it is the late blight that is hitting most parts of the country early this year, there may not be much you can do about it. Try spraying your plants with a mixture of: fish emulsion (you can buy this at most nurseries and even some WalMarts), espon salt, non-fat dry milk, and baking soda. One tablespoon of each ingredient, diluted, per gallon of water.


That might help if the blight is in the earlier stages. Especially the baking soda and the non-fat dry milk, both of which make the tomato's living environment more alkaline. (Fungi do not do well in alkaline environments).


BTW, here is what each ingredient of the spray contributes to the tomato plant:


The fish emulsion offers a ready source of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus.

The epson salts offer the plant extra magnesium.

The non-fat dry milk offer the plants extra calcium. (Tomatoes need alot more calcium and magnesium than most vegetables do.)

The baking soda raises the pH level of the plant's living environment (ie, adds alkalinity to the tomato's world), which hinders the spread of the fungal blight.

You might want to add two other ingredients to the spray as well: a teaspoon of liquid seaweed extract (aka "liquid kelp") to add trace minerals to the mix, and some lemon scented dish washing detergent (which acts as a mild insecticide and also helps the spray stick to the leaves of the plant longer).


Of course, always water tomato plants at the root line -- never water the plant with a sprinkler or something that emulates rain. It is bad enough that mother nature waters our tomato plants from the top, we do not have to do the same thing when we water our plants. Tomatoes do best if you water them very deeply but only once a week, and water them in a way that you moisten the soil, but the plant does not get wet.

[Barry Natchitoches]

If the leaves are curling/deformed...sounds like something is destroying the roots. It could be nematodes, could be a blight/disease of some sort, could be that the soil isn't really all that good.

I still think that your best bet is to call your local extension office for a definitive diagnosis. If there's a blight in your area, there may be more elsewhere being carried on the wind. The extension office needs to know that so they can determine the extent of it so that they can work with local farms in the area.

Also, the extension office just might know how to remedy the ailment. YOU need to know because if it's fungus, or some sorts of blight, you may need to dispose of ALL of your garden tools, gloves, shoes and clothing. Clorox won't cut it..btdt.

Try googling "tomatoe diseases" or "vegetable diseases" or variations. You might find a picture that matches. But please, utilize your local extension office. You pay enough taxes, put your money to good use!

And the thing about tobacco...very true. It can cause mosaic virus which effects all kinds of plants, some in different ways.

If you can eliminate soil and growing condition issues, nutrient and water issues, moisture/heat issues, then the next thing to look at is pests and diseases. Get help.


If you call the local extension office, bear in mind that in many areas of the country, these folks are NOT knowledgeable of organic means of growing food or dealing with veggie plant problems. And the bad thing is that they will sometimes CLAIM that they are, when the truth is that they are not.


And you will not be able to tell if they are lying or not.


Now, if you are a chemical gardener, that will not matter.


But if you want to grow organically, it is best to research the problem for yourself on the net or in quality organic reference books like the organic growing books put out by the Rodale publishers.

[Barry Natchitoches]

Miracle Gro as a FOLIAR SPRAY (sprayed directly onto the leaves and absorbed directly) is the quickest way to get nutrients into a stressed plant. As long as you don't see lesions (round spots, mushy places, etc) on the leaves, it's very possibly weather stress or nutrient issues.

Summerthyme



Fish emulsion used as a foliar spray will work every bit as fast as Miracle Grow, but has the added advantage of not being harmful to the soil and the microbial population that lives in the soil and feeds your plants.


I would suggest mixing in some liquid seaweed extract to the mix, for trace minerals, plus maybe some epson salts (for magnesium), non-fat dry milk (for calcium), some lemon scented dish washing detergent (to help the spray stick to the leaves longer), and either baking soda (for nightshades like tomatoes, peppers or potatoes) to fight fungal blight, or else one uncoated, cheap aspirin per gallon to bolster the immune system of the plant.


(An organic vegetable grower and Master Gardener out in rural west Tennessee has been conducting some research on her farm and found that nightshades do better when sprayed with baking soda, while other veggies do better when aspirin is used in the spray instead. She found that the beneficial effects were negated, however, in all kinds of veggies when she used BOTH aspirin and baking soda. This lady has a Ph.D. in quantitative research, and applies those skills to her farm, though she does not have a formal education in botany.)

[Tweety]

This may be way off in left field. I have seen this spider web stuff on weeds. I'm talking about chemtrails, spray. I wouldn't put it past this buggers to do something that would stop our food from growing. About 2-3yrs ago I had my guys put up 4x4 post about 71/2 feet apart. in square area's. On top we put up that shading material. because I knew we would be getting the Sun Heat that would try and kill and burn the tomato's or what ever I grew under cover. Under the shade it drops the temp about 15 degrees. It also helps with the water usage. I have also done another thing out in my other garden --put up metal stakes abut 5 ft high about 2ft. apart on the end of rows. about 10 from the other end. I went and got that ground white cover and placed it on top with ties. so the plants underneath also doesn't get fried. If you cant find the white ground cover. Go to your Goodwill store and find some cheap sheet curtains and split it down the middle and use that cover. I found a few for 2.00$. We me living here in NM we get heat. Uv about 11-13 high so you feel the burning. You can imagine how the plant feels. They are growing by leaps and bounds. My tomatoes are on the east side of the house. The west side gets so hot. Here I have to deal with sand/dirt. I have to haul in the black dirt or compost. Hope this helps someone, in their thinking.

[Tweety]

This may be way off in left field. I have seen this spider web stuff on weeds. I'm talking about chemtrails, spray. I wouldn't put it past this buggers to do something that would stop our food from growing. About 2-3yrs ago I had my guys put up 4x4 post about 71/2 feet apart. in square area's. On top we put up that shading material. because I knew we would be getting the Sun Heat that would try and kill and burn the tomato's or what ever I grew under cover. Under the shade it drops the temp about 15 degrees. It also helps with the water usage. I have also done another thing out in my other garden --put up metal stakes abut 5 ft high about 2ft. apart on the end of rows. about 10 from the other end. I went and got that ground white cover and placed it on top with ties. so the plants underneath also doesn't get fried. If you cant find the white ground cover. Go to your Goodwill store and find some cheap sheer curtains and split it down the middle and use that cover. I found a few for 2.00$. We me living here in NM we get heat. Uv about 11-13 high so you feel the burning. You can imagine how the plant feels. They are growing by leaps and bounds. My tomatoes are on the east side of the house. The west side gets so hot. Here I have to deal with sand/dirt. I have to haul in the black dirt or compost. Hope this helps someone, in their thinking.

[Zarathustra]

Patches
I posted earlier about the trouble I was having with my tomato plants.

I was having a terrible time with my tomatoes this year too, Patches. I started looking around the net for something that would help and I believe this might help I've included some links for you to read (it's all a quick read). I bought a 40 pound bag of the horticulture cornmeal and spread it under the tomato plants about 2 weeks ago and I see the difference already. My one and only "Paul Robison" heirloom tomato was on it's last legs but now I see new green growth and maybe, just maybe I'll get a couple tomatoes off it (it's one of my favorites). http://i25.tinypic.com/v63zp4.gif

I think I'll be using this stuff on all my plants from now on including the orchard just as a safe guard. And the posters that warned you about spraying tobacco juice on your tomatoes are absolutely correct it would have been a disaster. Also, smokers should wash their hands before entering the garden if they plan on handling tomato plants.

Here are the links, Patches.

Cornmeal
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/1372/

Cornmeal Juice
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/153/

Cornmeal and its many uses
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/18/


I thought I'd include these too I mean, who would have know this stuff, lol

Cornmeal Uses from the garden to skin treatments!
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/116/

Cornmeal for Thrush (for all us mommy doctors :-D )
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/2149/

Corn Smut (Wow, never knew this, ewww! http://i39.tinypic.com/qx9mpt.gif )
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/2404/

Hope you get some tomatoes from your plants, Patches, I had almost given up but it looks like things have made a turn around now. http://i43.tinypic.com/9rngnc.gif