Perry Stone changes shirts in the middle of his video

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Originally Posted by Matt TwoFour

Here's what I came across-- a joint television appearance with White and Stone:

Paula White: "...take communion once a day."

Perry Stone: Take it [communion] everyday and as you're praying thank God for blessing you financially.

"He said, 'Take it everyday and as you're praying thank God for blessing you financially. Thank Him that that's part of the provision. They needed $50,000 and they got an amazing, remarkable $50,000 miracle, this couple did!"

Paula White: "Call that toll free number! We want you to get the 'Meal That Heals!'"

(Paula White and Perry Stone, "Paula White Show," October 9, 2004)
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I mean...even if he weren't guilty of selling an endless series of useless "holy" trinkets and gizmos like all the other super-rich Charismatic TV evangelists...there are still all the other problems:

1) This horrendous "prosperity gospel" false teaching..2) his long list of very, very odd "insights" and "revelations" etc. And the other aforementioned issues...which for me personally, makes him someone I steer clear of.

I'm not trying to go out of my way to upset people. But in these last days there HAS to be a safe place and a safe way of hashing through and sorting through all these leaders on the 'Christian' scene...to see what they're really made of. Jesus has warned there will be a large number of satanic "Christian" leaders who will have fooled the Christian public, and who will be used to perpetrate a deadly apostasy deception.

I'm always asking fellow Christians--"If Jesus says there are large numbers of top-level Christian leaders who are actually satanists...have you spotted any of them yet??"

99.9% of the time they admit to me they can't point out a single suspect among America's popular Christian leaders! That is hugely tragic. And you see here what happens when one even attempts to begin a discussion about possible "false prophets". Everybody has their favorite 'venerated' 'untouchable' Christian leader these days.

Evangelicalism is living in the age of "the cult of personality".

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Matt - could you please point us to the documentation of everything you have done in your life to make sure you have never made mistakes or been seen in the company of someone we can deem as not acceptable?

Based on your assessment criteria then I think you may also be concerned about Jesus statement here:

Mark 9
Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” 39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward."

Jesus warns us to not be deceived. That directive is to the individual not to anyone who feels they are the gatekeeper whose job it is to decide who the deceivers are.

Jesus tells us we have no other teacher but Him. He is the only gatekeeper and shepherd. There are no job openings.

Please show me where Jesus directs any human being to point fingers at another human being that they are to decide who is and who is not worthy to be heard? We (as individuals) are to judge one another by the fruit.


What is the fruit that we are to compare them to?
Matthew 5 and Galatians 5
The Beatitudes

He said: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


Gal 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Every human is in error somewhere since we know there is only one who is perfect and we are not Him. And that would include you and me. When one human being sets themselves up as to where that line is drawn where others errors are worse than someone elses, they cross a line. Someone who is deceived by errors regarding their salvation need to be pointed to seeking a relationship with Jesus through a humble and surrendered heart, not a policeman. How are they supposed to discern future error if they are not pointed to the only one who can be with them 24/7 to teach and guide them? Those who are in a personal relationship with Him can discern truth from error. So we need to point them to that goal.

We are told to love others and to preach the gospel.

If we are busy doing that and leaving the rest to the individual to discern truth through the Holy Spirit's guidance to direct the seeking heart, then we don't really have time to be pointing fingers in judgment of others.

The only way to give people the tools they need to discern truth from error is by sharing the truth of the gospel and pointing them to seek His counsel.

The only way we can identify a counterfeit is by knowing the real deal.
Jesus is the real deal and those who know Him can spot counterfeit messages, preaching error and are not deceived.

We are to be about our Father's business to introduce people to His message and then it is up to the individual to receive His message directly from Him to their heart or reject Him. It is not our job to be running around judging who is and is not getting it exactly right.

In my early years as a born again Christian I also thought that it was important to do what you are doing and was caught in that trap of judging others and feeling like I was a policeman to help protect others.

As I grew to know Him better I learned that it is not our job to do that and I could trust Him to guide the individual heart who is sincerely seeking Him.

God is the author of every heart beat. If He felt those preaching error were a serious problem, He would take care of it. Instead, He leaves them to continue on and trusts that those who truly seek Him will see the discernment as He reveals it to their hearts. Those who are seeking words to satisfy their itching ears will listen to error and reject the tugging of the Holy Spirit on their heart pointing out the error. But it is all His work, not ours.

Matt-

I was pointing out that he does not claim to sell special communion food. I know that he believes in the financial stuff. I am in agreement that we must be vigilant fruit inspectors.

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Originally Posted by Mrs. S

Matt-

I was pointing out that he does not claim to sell special communion food. I know that he believes in the financial stuff. I am in agreement that we must be vigilant fruit inspectors.

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I hear ya! I think I was just addressing any other folks who might be listening.

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Originally Posted by Emily

Matt - could you please point us to the documentation of everything you have done in your life to make sure you have never made mistakes...

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Oh...I'm going to have to get back to you on that. I think I'm missing portions of my "Life Files"...1986 to 1989. They're in my basement somewhere. And I know for a fact that I cut a guy off in traffic and yelled at him, sometime in '87. (I also ripped a mattress tag off that same year. It was a bad year.)

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As I grew to know Him better I learned that it is not our job to do that and I could trust Him to guide the individual heart who is sincerely seeking Him.

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Well, I would say...you learned wrong. In contradiction to your statement, the Bible (Galatians 6:1) says that if we find a brother who has fallen into error we should attempt to restore that brother. That biblical instruction presupposes the appropriateness of believers attempting to discern (whether rightly or wrongly) sin and error. So, you're off on that one.

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Jesus tells us we have no other teacher but Him. He is the only gatekeeper and shepherd. There are no job openings.

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That is a blatantly anti-biblical statement. The Spirit has routinely given gifts to the church (gifts of service, mercy, teaching, etc. etc.). Many believers have been called to teach. There must be hundreds or more right here on this board that are 'teaching' by virtue of attempting to share their views on the Bible. You're attempting this right here and now...and once again, are breaking your own rules. Mama mia.

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Originally Posted by Bethshaya

Until you can profess that your feet fit perfectly into Jesus footsteps, your short time left is better spent working on the plank in your own eye.

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I would argue you are mis-applying the "plank/speck" passage. If a wolf or false teacher or false teaching has slipped into and amongst the flock...what are you proposing we should do? Apparently...nothing.

The Bible has something different to say about that. I mean...even the Apostle Paul took Peter on, publicly. At one point, Peter was folding on the issue of Jewish dietary laws, and Paul called him on it. You would tell Paul to get the plank out of his eye....instead of trying to relieve Jesus-followers of the false and unbiblical burden of defunct Jewish dietary laws?

Makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Matt TwoFour

I would argue you are mis-applying the "plank/speck" passage. If a wolf or false teacher or false teaching has slipped into and amongst the flock...what are you proposing we should do? Apparently...nothing.

The Bible has something different to say about that. I mean...even the Apostle Paul took Peter on, publicly. At one point, Peter was folding on the issue of Jewish dietary laws, and Paul called him on it. You would tell Paul to get the plank out of his eye....instead of trying to relieve Jesus-followers of the false and unbiblical burden of defunct Jewish dietary laws?

Makes no sense.

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Paul called Peter on a doctrine but Paul was a direct disciple of Christ given a directive by Christ Himself.
The foundations of the faith - the very message itself to be preserved for generations to come was being engraved.

We can share how we believe those very scriptures have meaning in our life and what we have learned from and about them but we are not writing doctrine or in a position of authority as they were.

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Originally Posted by Matt TwoFour

Oh...I'm going to have to get back to you on that. I think I'm missing portions of my "Life Files"...1986 to 1989. They're in my basement somewhere. And I know for a fact that I cut a guy off in traffic and yelled at him, sometime in '87. (I also ripped a mattress tag off that same year. It was a bad year.)

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Well then until we can know who you are and if you are without sin then I don't think you should be dragging out things of other people's lives from 2004 to try to paint them in some light for judgment.

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Well, I would say...you learned wrong. In contradiction to your statement, the Bible (Galatians 6:1) says that if we find a brother who has fallen into error we should attempt to restore that brother. That biblical instruction presupposes the appropriateness of believers attempting to discern (whether rightly or wrongly) sin and error. So, you're off on that one.

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Sorry, but I will take the teaching of the Holy Spirit (John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.) over a person on the internet whom I know nothing about except what they choose to reveal.

As for Gal 6
Galatians 6

Doing Good to All

1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load. 6 Nevertheless, the one who receives instruction in the word should share all good things with their instructor.

I don't see where this applies to your desire to judge others who are not here to defend themselves or dragging things from the past that they may have repented of.

I notice you avoided responded to Jesus words I posted from Mark 9

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That is a blatantly anti-biblical statement. The Spirit has routinely given gifts to the church (gifts of service, mercy, teaching, etc. etc.). Many believers have been called to teach. There must be hundreds or more right here on this board that are 'teaching' by virtue of attempting to share their views on the Bible. You're attempting this right here and now...and once again, are breaking your own rules. Mama mia.

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We have discussed this before. Teaching from the stand point of sharing what we have learned and sharing the gospel message and teaching people HOW to read, etc

But Jesus made it very clear that the only one we are to take our actual doctrine from is Him.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Matthew 23:10
Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Since scripture does not contradict scripture and what Jesus said is very clear, then there must be an explanation to it.

But there is no human being that I will trust to teach me anything that I don't take to Him in prayer and read scripture to confirm if it is true or not.

Even Paul told people to do the same with what he was teaching.
Acts 17:11 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

But you want us to see what you say as the end all as if you still do not have more to learn or that you can not be wrong.

Share what you have learned and stand on those things that are salvational but everything else we can share what we have learned along the way and have open hearts to learning and a willingness to believe we can be wrong.

The Lord has the final word in being our only teacher.

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Originally Posted by Matt TwoFour

I would argue you are mis-applying the "plank/speck" passage. If a wolf or false teacher or false teaching has slipped into and amongst the flock...what are you proposing we should do? Apparently...nothing.

The Bible has something different to say about that. I mean...even the Apostle Paul took Peter on, publicly. At one point, Peter was folding on the issue of Jewish dietary laws, and Paul called him on it. You would tell Paul to get the plank out of his eye....instead of trying to relieve Jesus-followers of the false and unbiblical burden of defunct Jewish dietary laws?

Makes no sense.

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No, we are to correct them out of love. Did you write or call HIM yet? Or are you just out to slander his name all over the internet without applying what the bible says we are to do.

Even in the circumstance that you mention, Paul addresses Peter directly, he doesn't go to the town square telling everyone else.."Did you hear what Peter says...he's the antichrist."

So when are you going to call or write Perry to address it?

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Originally Posted by Bethshaya

No, we are to correct them out of love. Did you write or call HIM yet? Or are you just out to slander his name all over the internet without applying what the bible says we are to do.

Even in the circumstance that you mention, Paul addresses Peter directly, he doesn't go to the town square telling everyone else.."Did you hear what Peter says...he's the antichrist."

So when are you going to call or write Perry to address it?

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When were you going to privately write or call (or PM) me...to correct my error? You see...I think you're misapplying Scripture again. Paul did NOT "address Peter directly" and/or privately. He confronted him in front of the entire Christian community...because that was the arena in which Peter was committing his error.

If someone is perpetrating potential false teaching in the public arena...then it is completely appropriate for a discussion of his potential errors to take place among the community members...i.e. in a public arena.

Case in point, you feel I am committing error in this discussion board...and that's where you're seeking to deal with the issue. Only makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Emily

Well then until we can know who you are and if you are without sin then I don't think you should be dragging out things of other people's lives from 2004 to try to paint them in some light for judgment.

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I see. OK, well..."until we know you are without sin", I hope you'll stop "dragging" my errors and faults out in order "to paint them in some light for judgment".

Over and over again...these gargantuan self-canceling, contradictory advisories.

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Matthew 23:10
Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.

Since scripture does not contradict scripture and what Jesus said is very clear, then there must be an explanation to it.

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The explanantion is--you're misunderstanding and mis-applying the Matthew passage. You're right though--there are no contradictions in the Bible. All the dozens and hundreds of passages which exhort us to teach and preach..are correct. Therefore...

...your teaching (that teaching is incorrect)...is incorrect.