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Thread: The Gettysburg Address---By Abraham Lincoln

  1. #11
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    Default Need More info

    I need a "real" history lesson. So, I had heard that the emancipation of slavery was already underway before the civil war, and that, the civil war was more about state's sovreign (spelling probably wrong) rights. So, South wanted to cede from the Union mainly to economic and state rights issues? Again, up "North" I am sure we are taught a very different "view". Any books to suggest reading on this that outline this?
    Thanks.

  2. #12
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    I like:
    The South was right
    The real Abraham Lincoln
    States Rights and the Union
    The South Under Siege
    Facts and Falsehoods

    I am forgeting many more.

    History is skewed. There is a whole new world out there for you when you start to mine good literature on civil war history. You will learn that Lincoln had no use for slaves, and wanted to send them all back to Africa. You will likely not call it the civil war, but the war of Northern Agression. At least I do....and I am from the North.

    It is interesting history accounting the darkest period for our nation...at least maybe until now.
    AI

  3. #13
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    Smile

    thank you for the list..I will start self-informing...

  4. #14
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    when you get through with studying the war, then start looking into the "reconstruction" of the South.

    Then your eyes will be opened even more...

  5. #15
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    I'll agree Lincoln was the beginning of the end of the rights of the states and the people.
    It's a shame John Wilkes Boothe didn't do what he did a lot sooner.
    It might've saved the Confederacy and in turn the freedoms of the American People.
    Like I said before, I posted this only for it's historical signifigance.
    Last edited by patriot2980; 04-30-2008 at 11:18 PM. Reason: For clarification and spelling
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson
    ________________

  6. #16
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    Red face

    ...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, HAS perish from the earth.
    If the south did succeed from the Union, which is plausible. Then there is very little difference in the use of government troops to overthrow a sovereign nation as then as it is today.

    So what do you put the odds of succession of any of the states today? Oh, that's right, The president stated in the State of the Union address that the the state of the Union was STRONG!
    Last edited by cfskellyvt; 06-01-2008 at 10:26 PM. Reason: update original content of the address
    The Difference between Communism and Capitalism:
    Communist Governments take over Successful companies(Gazprom).
    Capitalist Governments take over Failed companies(Fannie/Freddie/AIG).

  7. #17
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    Thumbs up

    It is so refreshing to see a reasonable discussion of Lincoln. The Lincoln myth is so damaging. Most thinking people can look at the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights, and then consider what we have today, and readily admit that we aren't even close to what was intended. When confronted with the question of "well, what happened?" the usual response is "well, incrementalism, little by little, the Founder's protective measures against central government tyranny was eroded." Which sounds reasonable at first. But then if that person has actually studied how the Founders knew that central government power had to be physically taken away and physically kept in the hands of the sovereign States by actually constructing a form of government that did not allow the people to simply vote away their independence, that person then is faced with the inconvenient truth that the form of government established by the Founders could only be uprooted by actual force of arms, violent revolution. And, alas, that is what happened. The original form of government established by the Constitution was a puny powerless central government, with the Constitution itself an instrument of the States' power over it. Like an inverted pyramid. The 14th Amendment, as lovely as it sounded at the time, converted the Constitution into an instrument for the All Powerful Central Government to lord over the States, and reversed the pyramid of power. (No comment on the history of the inscription on the obverse of the Great Seal...don't want to end up in the root cellar, mere coincidences, nothing to see here.)

    Cheers,

  8. #18
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    I am reading Shelby Foote's Trilogy "The Civil War" and wondering how accurate this is based on some of the information posted above?

  9. #19
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    Shelby Foote is one of the many well known Lincoln worshipers. Just google "Shelby Foote Lincoln Apologists" or even "Lincoln Apologists" alone.

    Of all of the presidents, Lincoln has arguably had the most impact on this country since its founding and the present way things are, next to FDR, so for better of for worse, we are directed to praise them for it every President's day. The winners write the history.

    On Lincoln history, I'm not suggesting that you stop reading Footes' masterpiece. But when you are done, pick up two short books by Thomas Dilorenzi; The Real Lincoln, and Lincoln unmasked. He has excellent bibliographies for further reading as well. Along the way, the following brief paper does a nice job of identifying some of the problems with "scholarship" and "bias."

    http://www.mises.org/journals/scholar/ostrowksi.pdf

    For some, "Lincoln saved the Union and ended Slavery," and it doesn't matter what the evidence may be, because to mess with that belief, is to mess with many other layers of belief, and that would make Reality way too sticky to deal with.

    But, if you are one that wants to find out the truth, read on, and discern.

  10. #20
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    Thank you Josh for the recommendations, the link was a very interesting read. I have a few layers to go through myself with regard to perceived/taught verse actual history. Thanks again

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