Concerned Follower Of Jesus!

[Kathe]

I agree Clearvoice. If Paul was against Torah why did he circumcise Timothy? That is just one example. He kept the Law and preached Yahshua as the perfect Lamb sacrifice.

[grower]

This is why Paul circumcised Timothy:

But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. -- 1st Corinthians 8:9

Paul taught liberty in Christ. When a person is washed in the blood of Jesus, he becomes clean in God's eyes. When he is filled with the Holy Spirit, God's law is written on his heart, and the law written on paper (Torah) becomes irrelevant -- he has the mind of Christ, and knows what the will of the Father is without outward constraints.

I don't find Paul hard to understand at all.

[Theresej]

This is why Paul circumcised Timothy:

But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. -- 1st Corinthians 8:9

Paul taught liberty in Christ. When a person is washed in the blood of Jesus, he becomes clean in God's eyes. When he is filled with the Holy Spirit, God's law is written on his heart, and the law written on paper (Torah) becomes irrelevant -- he has the mind of Christ, and knows what the will of the Father is without outward constraints.

I don't find Paul hard to understand at all.

That is exactly why he had Timothy circumcised. So the unbelieving Jews they were going to would receive and hear the Gospel. . .So their liberty to not be circumcised in Christ would not become a stumbling block to the hearers they were going to.

[CRodgers]

Paul did not teach Torah?

First off, there was no New Testament bible back then. When they taught scripture to the new converts and brought them back to the synagogue, what do you think they taught them out of?

I know we have been brought up in a modern western mindset but please don't let that cloud our ability to see stuff like this.

Paul when he was arrested because he was accused of corrupting the temple by bringing Greeks into it said the following.

Act 22:3 I am verily a man, Jew, born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Not only was Paul a Jew but he was a Pharisee.

He said "I am a Jew" (Present Tense)

Standing before the Sanhedrin, Paul identified himself as a Pharisee in the present tense (Acts 23:6) NOT as a "Christian" when he said "Brothers, I myself am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee!"

Paul even said in Acts 24:14 "I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets."

In Acts 25:8 Paul said "I have committed no offense, not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, not against the emperor." Although free from condemnation through the shed blood fo Yeshua, he walked in obedience to the Torah as a Jew.

When Paul finally gets to Rome, he "Called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: "Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner..." (Acts 28:17)

Paul not only walked and kept the law but taught it as well.

Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all

[Theresej]

Paul did not teach Torah?

First off, there was no New Testament bible back then. When they taught scripture to the new converts and brought them back to the synagogue, what do you think they taught them out of?

I know we have been brought up in a modern western mindset but please don't let that cloud our ability to see stuff like this.

Paul when he was arrested because he was accused of corrupting the temple by bringing Greeks into it said the following.

Act 22:3 I am verily a man, Jew, born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Not only was Paul a Jew but he was a Pharisee.

He said "I am a Jew" (Present Tense)

Standing before the Sanhedrin, Paul identified himself as a Pharisee in the present tense (Acts 23:6) NOT as a "Christian" when he said "Brothers, I myself am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee!"

Paul even said in Acts 24:14 "I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets."

In Acts 25:8 Paul said "I have committed no offense, not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, not against the emperor." Although free from condemnation through the shed blood fo Yeshua, he walked in obedience to the Torah as a Jew.

When Paul finally gets to Rome, he "Called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: "Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner..." (Acts 28:17)

Paul not only walked and kept the law but taught it as well.

Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all

John 1612 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. 13 5 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

Jesus personally promised the disciples to send them the Holy Spirit to lead THEM into ALL truth - truth they were not yet ready for.

ACTS 10:9 6 The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime. 7 10 He was hungry and wished to eat, and while they were making preparations he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners. 12 In it were all the earth's four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. 13 A voice said to him, "Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him again, a second time, "What God has made clean, you are not to call profane." 16 This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky.

[Kathe]

Paul did not teach Torah?

First off, there was no New Testament bible back then. When they taught scripture to the new converts and brought them back to the synagogue, what do you think they taught them out of?

I know we have been brought up in a modern western mindset but please don't let that cloud our ability to see stuff like this.

Paul when he was arrested because he was accused of corrupting the temple by bringing Greeks into it said the following.

Act 22:3 I am verily a man, Jew, born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Not only was Paul a Jew but he was a Pharisee.

He said "I am a Jew" (Present Tense)

Standing before the Sanhedrin, Paul identified himself as a Pharisee in the present tense (Acts 23:6) NOT as a "Christian" when he said "Brothers, I myself am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee!"

Paul even said in Acts 24:14 "I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets."

In Acts 25:8 Paul said "I have committed no offense, not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, not against the emperor." Although free from condemnation through the shed blood fo Yeshua, he walked in obedience to the Torah as a Jew.

When Paul finally gets to Rome, he "Called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: "Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner..." (Acts 28:17)

Paul not only walked and kept the law but taught it as well.

Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all

Don't you know???? Jesus and the disciples all walked around with the KJV under their arms. J/K of course.

I agree with you that the NT talks about Holy Scripture, scripture, etc it is only talking about the Old Testament. The Law, the Psalms and the Prophets.

[BloodySwordIsa63]

[QUOTE]

Don't you know???? Jesus and the disciples all walked around with the KJV under their arms. J/K of course.

You probably think that Jesus and the Apostles walked around with mein kampf tucked under their arms

[Theresej]

[quote=BloodySwordIsa63;1493453]

You probably think that Jesus and the Apostles walked around with mein kampf tucked under their arms

Actually, they used the Greek Septuagint version of scriptures. :)

[JGIG]

Paul did not teach Torah?

First off, there was no New Testament bible back then. When they taught scripture to the new converts and brought them back to the synagogue, what do you think they taught them out of?

Baloney. Paul and the other apostles taught from the OT to prove that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

They did not bring new believers 'back to the synagogue' . . . they got kicked out of countless synagogues as well as the Temple for preaching Jesus Christ an Him crucified and risen!

Seriously.

As for there being no New Testament back then, the Apostles were writing it in the form of letters to the Body of Christ - assemblies of believers scattered about. Their letters were copied and passed around from assembly to assembly. Those letters are the same instructions to the Body of Christ that we have now!

I know we have been brought up in a modern western mindset but please don't let that cloud our ability to see stuff like this.

Paul when he was arrested because he was accused of corrupting the temple by bringing Greeks into it said the following.

Act 22:3 I am verily a man, Jew, born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Not only was Paul a Jew but he was a Pharisee.

He said "I am a Jew" (Present Tense)

Standing before the Sanhedrin, Paul identified himself as a Pharisee in the present tense (Acts 23:6) NOT as a "Christian" when he said "Brothers, I myself am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee!"

Paul even said in Acts 24:14 "I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets."

In Acts 25:8 Paul said "I have committed no offense, not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, not against the emperor." Although free from condemnation through the shed blood fo Yeshua, he walked in obedience to the Torah as a Jew.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

Paul NEVER sought to put Gentiles under the Law. NEVER.

When Paul finally gets to Rome, he "Called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: "Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner..." (Acts 28:17)

Paul not only walked and kept the law but taught it as well.

Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all

Tell us, please, what did the Law keeping Jews do with Paul?

-JGIG

[Theresej]

Baloney. Paul and the other apostles taught from the OT to prove that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

They used the Greek Septuagint predominately. Additionally, they recognized the Christian writings to be scripture as well.

Peter tells us Paul's letters, for example, were considered scripture:

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

A misconception that is very common is that the canon of scriptures was closed at the time of Christ and the apostles. That is an unfortunate misunderstanding of the facts. Scripture was never closed for the Jews until the supposed council of Jamnia around 100AD .. and then the Jews argued over that attempt for 500 years and the Ethiopian Jews never accepted it, and still use the Greek Septuagint.