Originally Posted by
tribulation2008
Hey JGIG.
Luke was not an apostle and received his information from what he was told.
It sounds like you don't believe that Luke's writings are inspired Scripture.
Paul mentored Luke and told Luke of his conversion. LUKE was not there at Paul's conversion and was NOT a witness of his conversion. Those who were there, however, never witnessed for him. Paul lied and said they heard the voice of Jesus, then changed it and said they didn't.
Yet the account is there in the Scriptures. Again, it sounds like you don't believe that Luke's writings are inspired Scripture.
As far as Peter, biblical scholars are unsure of who pinned the letter. The letter by 1 Peter said it was written by Sylvanus (1 Peter 5:12). 2 Peter was also marked as a possible pseudograph. Scholars also believe that the letters of "Peter" were tampered with.
Your statement implies 'all scholars' are unsure. That is not the case at all: http://bible.org/article/2-peter-peter%E2%80%99s
You say that 'scholars' (again implying 'all') 'believe' that the letters of Peter were tampered with. I found no reliable sources that say so. And last I checked, 1 and 2 Peter are in the canon of Scripture, so close scrutiny was obviously given to both. You'll have to do better than your ambiguous say so for me to buy your assertions.
There was no need for Jesus to call a murderer to do His work after he commanded to apostles to teach all nations what He had commanded them.
Paul was just carrying out the Law as it is written . . . why do you call Paul the Pharisee a murderer? He was upholding the Law you claim to obey!
The fact is, there are only 12 apostles to the Lamb (Rev 21:14) and Paul could not be an apostle. He never met Jesus. Jesus made it clear that what the Father had told Him, that He told the apostles.
So if what you say is true, why is the following in the canon of Scripture?
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Apparently, the apostles knew nothing of Paul's gospel and feared he was NOT an apostle.
Where is the Scriptural evidence for this assertion?
Regardless, Paul clearly taught and acted differently than Jesus. If we need Paul, then Jesus did not finish His job.
Then what did Jesus mean when He said this:
John 14:12
12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
or this:
John 16:12-15
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
His faith doctrine is the broad way to destruction.
So this isn't true?
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
Paul's words hang himself. For example:
Romans 3:7 Paul metions that the truth of God had more abounded through HIS LIE unto God's glory.
Um, no. That's not what it says. Let's try a healthy dose of context, shall we?
Romans 3:1-20
1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Paul was not saying that about himself; he was relaying a faulty argument! Your accusation falls flat in the face of reality.
2 Cor 12:16 Paul mentions he was crafty and caught them with guile.
Did you really think that no one would bring up context for this one either? Paul was known for his sharp wit and occasional sarcasm, as evidenced in this passage:
2 Corinthians 12:11-21
11 I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing. 12 I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 13 How were you inferior to the other churches, except that I was never a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!
14 Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well. If I love you more, will you love me less? 16 Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery! 17 Did I exploit you through any of the men I sent to you? 18 I urged Titus to go to you and I sent our brother with him. Titus did not exploit you, did he? Did we not walk in the same footsteps by the same Spirit?
19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? We have been speaking in the sight of God as those in Christ; and everything we do, dear friends, is for your strengthening. 20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder. 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Careful study will show you that Paul was NOT holy spirit inspired.
Based on what I've discovered above about your conclusions, careful study is not something you are familiar with.
I'll go with the canon of Scripture as it stands, thank you.
-JGIG