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Thread: Concerned Follower Of Jesus!

  1. #11
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    Paul did speak of the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and the Law of Sin and Death...

    Is that the tare's doctrine? I'm pretty sure Paul finished his course or race in the earth with flying colors and a standing ovation from God in Heaven...

    A word of warning... Those who continually renew their minds on such drivel will become 'drivelized'... Renew your minds on only the Word of God while you still have breath... The Holy Ghost is quite capaple of teaching you the things of Jesus and will, in the course of life, bring into remembrance what He said in His Word so you can walk in the Spirit. That is why it is so vital to renew your mind to God's Word and not to what a puny, twisted blind man says. I apologize if that's too strong, but what would Jesus say? Hmm?
    Last edited by Daytonabill0001; 04-25-2011 at 10:41 PM. Reason: clarified my point a little better...
    Pride Always Has A Better Idea.

    And it's not your job to mold me to your likeness!
    _______________________________________________

    Mat 22:37-40 (msg) Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'

    This is the most important, the first on any list.

    But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'

    These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."

  2. #12
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    Default Paul to the unlearned...a stumbling block.

    Paul to the unlearned...a stumbling block.

    I read this or something like a it a few years back , and had my doubts about Pauline doctrines.

    But today I understand the language Paul used better , and he is not against keeping the commandments of God (Torah), he is very against keeping the doctrines of the Pharisees (Men) for salvation (Modern Day rabbinical Judaism.)

    The fact is , Paul is the most difficult author to understand. And even once you do understand him , it's really difficult to teach because you have to put so many things in their proper context. To Hear Paul correctly , You have to remove your bias against Torah , and unlearn the doctrines of lawlessness you once believed, and learn some things about the practicing Pharisees and their language , and why both the Messiah and Paul railed against them ( Pharisees).

    The error is not with Paul it is with our lack of understanding , and our false doctrines that cloud our mind. The KJV doesn't help much either , it's best to study the Greek text of Paul's letters , and the Aramaic would probably be better. The closer you can get to the intent and 1st century context of the very Jewish author Sha'ul (Paul) the better.

    Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, The Gentiles shall come to You From the ends of the earth and say, "Surely our fathers have inherited lies, Worthlessness and unprofitable [things]."

  3. #13
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    I agree Clearvoice. If Paul was against Torah why did he circumcise Timothy? That is just one example. He kept the Law and preached Yahshua as the perfect Lamb sacrifice.

  4. #14
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    This is why Paul circumcised Timothy:

    But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. -- 1st Corinthians 8:9

    Paul taught liberty in Christ. When a person is washed in the blood of Jesus, he becomes clean in God's eyes. When he is filled with the Holy Spirit, God's law is written on his heart, and the law written on paper (Torah) becomes irrelevant -- he has the mind of Christ, and knows what the will of the Father is without outward constraints.

    I don't find Paul hard to understand at all.
    IF you are willing & obedient , you shall eat the good of the land: But if you refuse & rebel, You shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isaiah 1:19, 20

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    Quote Originally Posted by grower View Post
    This is why Paul circumcised Timothy:

    But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. -- 1st Corinthians 8:9

    Paul taught liberty in Christ. When a person is washed in the blood of Jesus, he becomes clean in God's eyes. When he is filled with the Holy Spirit, God's law is written on his heart, and the law written on paper (Torah) becomes irrelevant -- he has the mind of Christ, and knows what the will of the Father is without outward constraints.

    I don't find Paul hard to understand at all.
    That is exactly why he had Timothy circumcised. So the unbelieving Jews they were going to would receive and hear the Gospel. . .So their liberty to not be circumcised in Christ would not become a stumbling block to the hearers they were going to.

  6. #16
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    Clearvoice[
    The KJV doesn't help much either , it's best to study the Greek text of Paul's letters , and the Aramaic would probably be better.
    Which 'THE greek text'? There are alot of Greek texts.

    Which 'Aramaic' texts?
    Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    Isa 66:2For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodySwordIsa63 View Post
    Clearvoice[ Which 'THE greek text'? There are alot of Greek texts.

    Which 'Aramaic' texts?
    And that is a problem?

  8. #18
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    Paul did not teach Torah?

    First off, there was no New Testament bible back then. When they taught scripture to the new converts and brought them back to the synagogue, what do you think they taught them out of?

    I know we have been brought up in a modern western mindset but please don't let that cloud our ability to see stuff like this.

    Paul when he was arrested because he was accused of corrupting the temple by bringing Greeks into it said the following.

    Act 22:3 I am verily a man, Jew, born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

    Not only was Paul a Jew but he was a Pharisee.

    He said "I am a Jew" (Present Tense)

    Standing before the Sanhedrin, Paul identified himself as a Pharisee in the present tense (Acts 23:6) NOT as a "Christian" when he said "Brothers, I myself am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee!"

    Paul even said in Acts 24:14 "I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets."

    In Acts 25:8 Paul said "I have committed no offense, not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, not against the emperor." Although free from condemnation through the shed blood fo Yeshua, he walked in obedience to the Torah as a Jew.

    When Paul finally gets to Rome, he "Called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: "Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner..." (Acts 28:17)

    Paul not only walked and kept the law but taught it as well.

    Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRodgers View Post
    Paul did not teach Torah?

    First off, there was no New Testament bible back then. When they taught scripture to the new converts and brought them back to the synagogue, what do you think they taught them out of?

    I know we have been brought up in a modern western mindset but please don't let that cloud our ability to see stuff like this.

    Paul when he was arrested because he was accused of corrupting the temple by bringing Greeks into it said the following.

    Act 22:3 I am verily a man, Jew, born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

    Not only was Paul a Jew but he was a Pharisee.

    He said "I am a Jew" (Present Tense)

    Standing before the Sanhedrin, Paul identified himself as a Pharisee in the present tense (Acts 23:6) NOT as a "Christian" when he said "Brothers, I myself am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee!"

    Paul even said in Acts 24:14 "I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets."

    In Acts 25:8 Paul said "I have committed no offense, not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, not against the emperor." Although free from condemnation through the shed blood fo Yeshua, he walked in obedience to the Torah as a Jew.

    When Paul finally gets to Rome, he "Called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: "Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner..." (Acts 28:17)

    Paul not only walked and kept the law but taught it as well.

    Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all

    John 1612 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. 13 5 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
    Jesus personally promised the disciples to send them the Holy Spirit to lead THEM into ALL truth - truth they were not yet ready for.

    ACTS 10:9 6 The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime. 7 10 He was hungry and wished to eat, and while they were making preparations he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners. 12 In it were all the earth's four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. 13 A voice said to him, "Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him again, a second time, "What God has made clean, you are not to call profane." 16 This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theresej View Post
    And that is a problem?
    Yes

    They all differ one from another.
    Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    Isa 66:2For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

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