Perry Stone changes shirts in the middle of his video

[Matt TwoFour]

I am not judging you. I am trying to show you something from scripture...

Well again, using your skewed definitions, I am not judging either. I am simply trying to show from the Scriptures...regarding false teaching in the church world.

And to say you are not "judging" me...

you have made the charges against a brother in Christ.
you dug something up to vilify someone
rather than post what you disagree with him on - doctrinally - and in LOVE - you decide to dig around in his past and try to find dirt on him

These are all judgmental and false accusations. Not sure how you're confused on this.

You and I are having a conversation in the same venue that you have made the charges against a brother in Christ.

What difference would it make, whether it's in the same "venue"? Good grief. You're still "in disobedience to the Word" by your own skewed standards.

Mark 9 fully applies.

No, it does not. If Perry Stone could actually heal someone...I would not oppose such. (He doesn't heal anyone, that I know of.) But if he teaches "prosperity gospel" and/or "PreTrib"...I oppose those things. Therefore I post comments on discussion boards.

[Matt TwoFour]

I think you both need to take an extended leave of absence. Why not just walk away and let it go? Why do you always have to be right?

I would certainly agree that Emily's strange double-talking and double standards are a disturbing and disconcerting thing to witness.

But I wouldn't know why you're unhappy with me trying to expose false teaching..."prosperity gospel", as one example. Let "it" go?? Why would I do that? My vision is to try to alert decent, well-meaning Evangelical folks as to an 'end times' onslaught of false teaching and false teachers.

Jesus has warned that the majority of erstwhile Jesus-followers are going to be successfully lured straight through the gates of Hell. BBWX--how is it NOT a noble cause to try and help fellow believers steer clear of such?

For my part...your presumption that I engage in online (and off-line) ministry for petty motivations of "needing to be right"...is just that--an arbitrary presumption. You dismiss my motives just like that? Come on. Look at my link below: I've been working for years to expose false teaching in the 'end times'. There are most definitely dangerous wolves infiltrating the flock.

Have you spotted any of these wolves that Jesus warned about in the Olivet Discourse? Can you name one suspect in the top tier of today's Christian leadership who gives indication of being satanic? If not...doesn't that concern you?

Instead, you're just bemoaning my efforts--"Hey, can't we all just get along?". If you don't like to see the struggle to expose false teachers and false prophets then...don't watch, I guess. (?) I find that kind dismissiveness, smack in the middle of the most critical hours in church history...to be amazing and sad. Unfathomable to me.

I think the way in which this individual has been inappropriately interrupting discussions by loudly questioning the very legitmacy OF the discussion..is disruptive and disharmonious. The equivalent of banging a wooden spoon on a tin pot. In terms of 'proper decorum', it isn't his/her call to 'disqualify' entire discussions.

I would recommend (take it or leave it, of course) that you try to get past the banging of the wooden spoon and see if you can't discern possible dangers in our 'end times' church world. Read the first couple of chapters in my linked "book"/blog below...and tell me what you think!

All I can say is---I am concerned about (what I perceive as) false teaching from people like Perry Stone. I want to discuss such things. I consider that 'legitmate'.

[Elijah Gunn]

Well, I've read everything posted so far,and even went back and re-read Matt Two Four's first 2 posts. I find Matt not guilty of the crimes of judging,and condemning Mr. Stone with total disregard for the plank in his own eye.

Thanks for your vigilance Matt. I read some of your online book and think it's good.

[Matt TwoFour]

Well, I've read everything posted so far,and even went back and re-read Matt Two Four's first 2 posts. I find Matt not guilty of the crimes of judging,and condemning Mr. Stone with total disregard for the plank in his own eye.

Thanks for your vigilance Matt. I read some of your online book and think it's good.

I appreciate that. Thank you much.

[Al Swearengen]

I would certainly agree that Emily's strange double-talking and double standards are a disturbing and disconcerting thing to witness.

Awwww...c'mon! That's just the way she has always rolled around these parts!

EVERYONE sees it EXCEPT her!

[Emily]

Well again, using your skewed definitions, I am not judging either. I am simply trying to show from the Scriptures...regarding false teaching in the church world.

If you ever showed any scripture we could discuss it but you just allude to what you claim is there while railing that I am misinterpreting scripture. That isn't right.

What difference would it make, whether it's in the same "venue"? Good grief. You're still "in disobedience to the Word" by your own skewed standards.

It makes every difference. You have the opportunity to defend yourself, Perry is not afforded that opportunity.
Doesn't the scripture say that the purpose of pointing out error is to turn the brother or sister from their error?

How can Perry do that if he has no idea that the chastisement is taking place?

In the situation with you - you have had the opportunity to set things straight and you reject it. So be it.

I have presented my position and scriptures to support it.

You have not.

We can agree to disagree. We are both human and have ONE teacher - the Lord Jesus Christ. He also is the final judge and by the same standards you treat and judge others - you will be judged and treated. We each need to seriously remember that.

As for this discussion, we are instructed that when someone does not wish to listen to our message we are to dust off our feet so that is what I will do in this discussion.

Matthew 18
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

You made the contentions against Perry public so those of us who feel you are not handling it correctly have spoken out. You have chosen to reject our concerns from the body of Christ.

You can take your final shots at me if you wish, I will not respond.

I forgive you and will lift you in prayer.

[LabbyLove]

Never heard of this guy Stone before this thread. Not sure how good or bad he and his teachings are, but I know if he hangs out with the likes of Paula White and that crowd then he is most certainly worth taking a pause to check him out.

I don't feel badly for these people that we are discussing them. They are big boys and girls. They have put themselves out there and their teachings and motives should always be looked at carefully. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to teach others should be looked at and yes, discussed especially if we suspect there might be something off with Biblical teachings.j

I appreciate your efforts Matt, and your motives. YOU are not out there selling jewelry, books, tapes, etc. YOU are putting yourself out there and researching and exposing things that SHOULD be exposed and asking nothing in return. YOU are protecting Christians and our Father will thank you for protecting the flock one day. I pray for you and your family and for your peace and protection. I think your motives come from love. Not everyone will agree with you on things, but no one can question your motives.

[Matt TwoFour]

If you ever showed any scripture we could discuss it but you just allude...

That is nothing short of a deliberate falsehood. I've got Scriptures plastered all over this thread. Where do you get off at with these blatantly dishonest accusations? It's bizarre.

You have the opportunity to defend yourself, Perry is not afforded that opportunity.

That is false. There are complaints about Perry Stone's huge collection of odd teachings and "revelations" and "prosperity gospel" and "PreTribulationism" and trinket peddling...scattered from one end of the Internet universe to the other. You will see not one peep of a response from Stone. He has already long, long since been 'called out' on these issues. His response is non-existent.

I do not need to go through the silly formality of sending him an email when I've already seen his non-response a hundred times over. He's a guy who has been given the "Matthew 18" opportunity a hundred times over and is still teaching falsehood, by the reckoning of many. Therefore, your notion that I should not be allowed to publicly disagree with him...is nonsensical.

We are both human and have ONE teacher

Over the years, I have hearkened to the teachings of many, many folks to whom the Holy Spirit has apparently given a "gift of teaching".

Your out-of-context mis-application and misunderstanding of Matthew 23, by which you are thus creating huge contradictions in the Bible...is your own problem and no one else's. You keep using the royal "we"-- Nobody here agrees with your strange notions...when you claim it is wrong to "teach the Bible".

we are instructed that when someone does not wish to listen to our message we are to dust off our feet

Dusting off your feet with a fellow believer? No, Emily. Wrong again. My oh my--your handling of the Scriptures is (IMO) very, very poor.

You made the contentions against Perry public...

Your "contention" that the discussion of the various teachings of well-known Christian leaders is somehow immoral and inappropriate...is just the oddest and most absurd notion. Utterly nonsensical. It is OK to discuss various teachings and doctrines which are floating around the church world. That, Emily, is what a discussion board is for. Goood grief!

And it is OK (IMO) to voice complaint about the horrendous trend among almost all top TV evangelists...of peddling an endless series of utterly useless "holy" trinkets and gizmos, by which to raise money for lavish lifestyles.

[Matt TwoFour]

Never heard of this guy Stone before this thread. Not sure how good or bad he and his teachings are, but I know if he hangs out with the likes of Paula White and that crowd then he is most certainly worth taking a pause to check him out.

I don't feel badly for these people that we are discussing them. They are big boys and girls. They have put themselves out there and their teachings and motives should always be looked at carefully. Anyone that takes it upon themselves to teach others should be looked at and yes, discussed especially if we suspect there might be something off with Biblical teachings.

Just pure common sense. Thanks, Labby.

I know there are many gracious souls on this board who may or may not be disconcerted to see these verbal confrontations going on.

There's definitely a fine line between wasting my time with a tin-pot/wooden-spoon-banging spectacle scenario...and yet trying to convey my heart-felt warnings about a huge upcoming (and on-going, for that matter!) apostasy deception...despite the banging noises.

Sometimes I think I can use the cat-calling (have experienced this on many boards) to my advantage, as a kind of springboard. Other times, I get concerned that too many of the 'flock' are becoming too disturbed and just want the whole confrontation to go away. It's a tough call.

I have just found that this is the central objective with some of these folks: Not necessarily to produce good arguments (in fact, most of the arguments are particularly bad..virtually nonsensical)...but to shoo away the gentler souls who might like to have a calm, courteous, enlightening discussion.

I try to strike a balance. Don't know if I always achieve that.

[Emily]

That is nothing short of a deliberate falsehood. I've got Scriptures plastered all over this thread. Where do you get off at with these blatantly dishonest accusations? It's bizarre.

I am not going to let this go. You never responded with the scriptures to support your contention that there were dozens of scriptures refuting my position.

So you are the only one offering a deliberate falsehood. I did what you requested and did not find what you claimed would refute my position.

I asked you again and you still didn't provide them just tried to send me back to search for YOUR proof. It wasn't there.

At this point I am done trying to discuss this with you so don't bother now.

But I will not stand by while you basically call me a liar when you are the one saying things that are not true regarding the particular discussion we were having. You may have scripture plastered in this thread but you never posted those dozens of scriptures you claim refuted Jesus' words about us having one teacher - Him.