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Thread: Perry Stone changes shirts in the middle of his video

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Cherry Blossoms View Post
    There are scripture verses that affirm the gift of teaching.

    Mark 16:15 (KJV)

    15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    First of all, thank you so much for your kindness in trying to bring forth the scriptures that Matt was claiming were in the Bible to refute my position. Yes, this is Jesus telling us to preach the gospel. It does not say to teach who are and are not false teachers. We are warned to watch out for them but no one is ever assigned to root them out or are there examples of such that I have seen.

    1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV)

    28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
    Paul never specifies teaching anything beyond teaching the gospel and what Christ laid down as the foundation of our faith.

    I do not see how this trumps what Jesus said in two other verses:
    Matthew 23:10
    Nor are you to be called teacher, for you have one teacher, the Messiah.

    John 14:26
    But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
    Regarding speaking out about false prophets and teachers:

    Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)

    17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
    This was Paul repeating Jesus warnings to test folks by their fruit and do not listen to anyone who does not walk by the fruit of the spirit. Love trumps all.
    John 13:35
    By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

    2Peter 2:1-3 (KJV)
    1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
    2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
    3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
    Again, Peter is repeating the warnings of Christ to the believer to be forewarned and careful not to listen to every one that comes along. I am sorry but I still do not see how this advocates what I see Matt doing.

    I don't see these scriptures advocating for one person to be in between Christ and the believer pointing to who is and is not on the approved list.
    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (KJV)
    13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
    Again, Paul is repeating the warnings of Christ to the believer to be forewarned and careful not to listen to every one that comes along.
    The ministry of teaching and preaching had to continue after the Apostles were gone. All members of the Body of Christ have been given spiritual gifts.
    Teaching and preaching the Gospel and learning to be more like Christ in loving one another. I don't see it advocating judging and writing people off.

    When I read the Bible through His teaching me, I see His emphasis on love. I see His emphasis on lifting one another up. I see warning the individual to be diligent in who and what they listen to and to check the scriptures and His counsel always.

    When Paul and Peter disagreed it was over doctrine. Paul did not write Peter off as a false teacher.

    The enemy has a field day with how Christians turn on each other in self justified rooting out the bad guys. How does one get appointed to be the one doing the rooting out? Is there a scripture that says one person is ordained to be that person and what they say goes?

    The people Christ warned us about are everywhere. The only way we can know the good guys from the bad ones is by checking with the only one who is in a position to know - Christ Jesus.
    John 10:27
    My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

    If anyone is not in a personal relationship with Him and growing to be more like Him every day then they will not hear His warnings and they will be dependent on humans. But who is to say how far to trust anyone?

    I know I have grown in my walk with Him over the years and am so glad that I pointed people to Him and not telling them to rely on me because I learn every day more things and what I had wrong yesterday. Only Christ Jesus through the teaching of the Holy Spirit can give us the end all truth and that is who we should be pointing people to - not dependent on us to help them discern. Hopefully all of you are growing to know Him and His ways better every day too. None of us are 'there' yet so how can any of us judge another except by their fruit?

    What I find kind of funny about this whole discussion is that when I was first born again, I too watched those televangelists. However, I did what the Bible said and checked out what they were teaching. I learned a few things and tossed out what didn't line up. But what it did do for me was teach me discernment. Using them as a learning tool, I learned how to hear His voice and how to research what was being put out there by them.

    What a fantastic opportunity that was and I learned the Bible and drew closer to Him through it. Romans 8:28 applies - 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

    They didn't deceive me because Christ, the good shepherd cared for me and guided me. He tugged on my heart and it was my choice to stay and listen to the deceptions or follow Him by walking away from them. He was very faithful. Fortunately, I chose to walk away from them and follow Him.

    But one thing I learned from the beginning that has not changed since I first was born again - the foundation of ALL truth is Christ Jesus as the narrow path to salvation and that LOVE must be at the root of everything we do. That love includes even love for those we think are deceivers either willingly or that they are deceived themselves. If they don't change, they will suffer far worse than being ignored by those they seek to follow them.

    The fruit of the spirit is:
    Gal 5
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

    Between looking for that fruit and the Holy Spirit guiding us, we can know who is and is not speaking truth and of God. No one should rely on any human being to do any of that for them or they may be being led by the deceiver himself.

    We should be fruit inspectors, know His voice and the Bible so well that no deceiver can move us from our foundation, and make sure love is at the center of how we proceed. If we do that, we don't need anyone else to point out the rotten fruit. As you said, even unbelievers can tell who is and is not telling His truth. So we, who have the Holy Spirit are our personal teacher and trainer should be even more equipped to do it as well.

    Those who consider themselves Christians who are deceived are deceived by more than false teachers - they do not have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus because if they did - He would not let them be deceived.

    They are the ones who I believe Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7
    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    He is the perfect shepherd. Those folks who are being led by false teachers don't have the personal relationship with Christ and that is why I keep saying we need to point them to HIM and quit worrying about warning them about false teachers. If they know Him, no false teacher will get their foot in the door to their heart.

    I think that Matt's heart is in the right place. I think that his intentions are honorable. But I disagree that he is doing the right thing. We should always be pointing people to the good shepherd for their discernment and leave the calls as to who is and is not worthy to listen to up to Him to guide them.

    If they are not hearing His voice, they may not be saved and isn't that a greater concern than who they are listening to on TV?
    'A person with an experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument,'" writes von Campe

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by bbwx View Post
    Gal 5:14-16 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Regardless of what I think about Perry why do we need the dueling scriptures here? Agree to disagree and walk away from it. Even if your position is the right one what is being accomplished here is not bearing good fruit.
    I cannot speak for others in this thread but my reason for continuing is explained in my last post. Especially towards the end of that post.

    I hope you read it and consider my concerns and can see the purpose.
    'A person with an experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument,'" writes von Campe

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Cherry Blossoms View Post
    Pride is a sin and always arguing to the bitter end because you are always right is pride. No need to pull the "judge not/ plank in your own eye" card. I know I am a sinner and Jesus has forgiven me much. I cry when I think that Jesus chose me in all my unworthiness. I am filthy in light of His holiness.

    I believe we are to have a teachable spirit. I want to know if I'm being deceived. I pray for discernment every day and am not so pompous to believe I couldn't be deceived. Adam and Eve lived in Paradise and in the presence and majesty of God. Can you even imagine? How awesome must that have been?! They had it all. No pain, no sorrow, no sickness or a worry in the world. Yet they succumbed to the wiles of the devil. He's had thousands of years to practice his craftiness. We must rely on Jesus at all times because without Him we can do nothing.

    1 John 4:4

    4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

    Matthew 26:41

    Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    Yes, we have the Word of God and the Holy Spirit but we can also learn from one another. We will be growing and learning until the day we die. We are commanded to expose false teachers in the Bible. We should be screaming from the rooftops warning one another. Pray, pray and pray some more for the lost to be saved. We need to plant as many seeds of truth as possible and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

    In these last days those that would lead Jesus' followers astray are increasing in number. Jesus warned us of the great deception and falling away that was to come. The wolves came in to the churches as soon as He left this earth. The majority of televangelists are charlatans. They grow rich on the money they manipulate from the people with their Beg-a-thons. It amazes me how unbelievers can spot a phony but we can't? No wonder Jesus calls us sheep because sheep are some of the dumbest animals out there. Did Jesus or the Apostles sit in a chair that looked like a throne, have a private jet, luxurious cars, a mansion(s), wear expensive clothes, have millions of dollars, travel the world etc.? Oh that's right, they travel to spread the Good News. So they quote scripture, big deal. Even the devil knows scripture. Why aren't they feeding and clothing the poor instead of living like royalty?

    We are in a WAR and in this time in history, the war drums are beating louder. A soldier never underestimates the enemy and is ever vigilant because your life and those around you depend on it. You snooze, you lose. Too big a price to pay in my opinion. Every soul is precious to God.

    1 Peter 5:8

    8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    BTW Read your book last year Matt. Really appreciate all your hard work.

    I am in total agreement, cherryblossoms.......

    I've read your book too, matt.......

    and I, too, am very appreciative of your time spent.......

    and your willingness to share.......

    For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow..............Ecclesiastes 1:18

    LORD please forgive us our unkind, unloving ways.........ALL OF US..........

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