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Thread: Christians and OT Law

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by grampster View Post
    One needs to consider that when one dies, there is no more time. Time is irrelevant.
    time is irrelevant, now.

  2. #62
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    interesting thread.

  3. #63
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    Default Amen--

    "The purpose of the law was to show us in no uncertain terms that we could never be righteous."

    Thank you...It's so true...

    Dahlia
    "Some stories are true that never happened"
    -- Eli Wiesel

  4. #64
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    Wow! Imagine my surprise to see this thread resurrected 3 months later!

    Might be opening a can of worms here, but here goes....

    I learned the reason Christ came was because no one, NO ONE could keep all the laws - thus being perfect in God's eyes.

    Well check out Luke 1:6. If you go here http://www.mystudybible.com/ just to the left of the square with the arrors is a book. Click on it, then scroll down and highlight the book of Luke, then Chapter 1, then verse 6. When it brings it up, as you roll your mouse over the words, it'll give you the Greek word and the definition.

    TO me, it would seem there were 2 people who kept all of God's laws.
    We wanted a FIGHTER. We got a fighter in Trump. He will not take anything laying down. Trump or Bust.




  5. #65
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    Our pastor teaches that Christ FULFILLED the Law. Meaning it need not bind anyone again, he made the attonement that all of the sacrifices were designed to make for us. Christ replaced the 128 (or however many there are) Laws with 2 Commandments. thus there is no legitimate reason to try to follow the Law anymore.
    "I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain"
    [Frank Herbert...Bene Gesserit Fear Littany}

    night driver's I-garage:
    http://bluemudpatriot.wordpress.com/

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buick Electra View Post
    Wow! Imagine my surprise to see this thread resurrected 3 months later!

    Might be opening a can of worms here, but here goes....

    I learned the reason Christ came was because no one, NO ONE could keep all the laws - thus being perfect in God's eyes.

    Well check out Luke 1:6. If you go here http://www.mystudybible.com/ just to the left of the square with the arrors is a book. Click on it, then scroll down and highlight the book of Luke, then Chapter 1, then verse 6. When it brings it up, as you roll your mouse over the words, it'll give you the Greek word and the definition.

    TO me, it would seem there were 2 people who kept all of God's laws.
    From: http://niv.scripturetext.com/luke/1.htm (a link from www.bible.cc )
    << Luke 1 >>
    New International Version

    Introduction

    1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilleda among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

    The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold

    5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly. 7But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well along in years.

    8Once when Zechariah’s division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, 9he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense. 10And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
    The "Both" that that verse talks about is both "a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth".

    Now, there is a difference between "upright in the sight of God", and sinless. Every person is born in sin, and therefore fallen by their human, cursed, birth. Jesus, born of a virgin, by the act of the Holy Spirit is the only human being ever born without sin, and never sinned.

    It's just like the issue of circumcision. Abram/Abraham had God's approval before he was circumcised because he did what God said for him to do, having faith in God, and showing it through his actions. Acts 7:8 talks about it, and that routes you back to Genesis 17:11, where God gives Abraham the sign of the covenant to him, his circumcision. Now, Back in Genesis 15:6"Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness. " So God had already at that point already regarded Abram (soon to be renamed Abraham) as "upright/righteous" at that point.

    The point of it all, is that we are deemed "upright" with God, when we have full faith in Him, in His actions and abilities, and live in that faith. It's not the wording of kept laws that make us righteous, but the declaration by God, our Lord that makes us holy, through the faith in Him, and His ability to do that. He knows we are broken, living in a broken world, and will change that later. All we have to do is believe in Him, and cling to Him, trying to do his Will the best we can.

    Another way of looking at it, is when Peter was shown in Acts 10:12 the "sheet" with all of the animals, and to go kill, and eat:
    From: http://niv.scripturetext.com/acts/10.htm
    Peter’s Vision

    9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

    14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

    15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

    16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

    17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

    19While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three men are looking for you. 20So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
    The purpose of the dream was to make Peter understand that the old laws do not apply to the Gentiles that are becoming Christians. God has made everything pure for them, that they already partook of, so that nothing would be a stumbling block for them to become Christians. This dream also taught Peter that the laws and customs of not going into a Gentile's (unclean) house were also lifted for the Jews (like Peter) converting to Christianity:

    Acts 10:27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”
    ...
    Acts 10:34Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.
    ...
    Acts 10:40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

    44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

    Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
    Notice that the Gentiles, heard the good news, believed it, and through it, God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the actions and abilities of both them and the Holy Spirit, and immediately the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on them. At that point they had done nothing more than believed, and had faith in God, through the Lord Jesus.

    Anything we do above believe and have faith in the Lord and our God, whether that be good works, following the laws, or anything else, is just reinforcement of our Faith in Him. As the Bible says:

    Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

    1st Corinthians 1:26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”

    Romans 3:27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    Acts 13:38“Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.


    Loup
    Obama is a PsychoSomatic Disorder: He is a Psycho that is trying to get you to take the Soma, so you will not see the Disorder that his "Hope and Change" is spreading.

  7. #67
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    You know, I just needed to open this up and read the above comments by Loup.

    Thank you. I'll be resuming some things because of the Word you presented and working harder to defeat some other things. That string of scripture is the best thing I have read in months.

    That Word also reconfirmed what I have known about how saved people should act when surrounded by those in darkness. We are not to boast or wag our finger or accuse because the faith that we have, the faith that has saved us, is not of us, but rather a gift from the LORD. It seems to me that the following scripture tells us that not only is Grace a gift, but also the Faith that brought the Grace upon us. Two gifts, Faith and Grace. "Ephesians 2:8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." God's workmanship, not our workmanship. An analogy: The table does not come about because of anything the table has done. The table, for heaven sake, does not even exist until the he who works at building it, completes it. Therefore those of you who feel that you must keep Torah, under the Law, then continue to do so in the spirit of why you are called to do so...perhaps you were prepared in advance to do for His reasons. As long as you call Jesus, LORD through the gift of Faith gaining Grace, then do not boast of it and call others to it. Of course, vice versa may hold just as well; do not boast of not having the need to keep Torah, for you are prepared, perhaps, for other works. And hold tight to the faith that whatever work it may be that you are prepared for, that it might only be a very small thing...1st Corinthians 1:26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”

    See, the underlined above is the cornerstone of works. As redeemed people, we do the works not to prove anything, not to boast about, not to confirm anything, but merely because whatever those works are, they were "...prepared in advance for us to do." and they may only be a very small part of a greater work that the LORD has ordained. Man, I never realized that till just now!!
    Last edited by grampster; 08-27-2011 at 09:33 PM.

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