Fifty (bible) reasons why the jews are not israel

[orion commander]

Daytonabill0001, glad you and your ilk are here. Saves me a lot of typing and looking up scriptures.

[Daytonabill0001]

ilk??? What's that?

[Daytonabill0001]

Yay!!! This thread is in the cemetery, RIP...

[Carol]

Agreed Orion Commander. There certainly, lately have been some strange, confusing thread titles. STRANGE I say STRANGE . It's really time to put on the whole armour and pray earnestly for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. I get the feeling things will get more confusing/deceptive as time goes on. Strange, I say strange...........

[clarity]

It's because we are sick and tired of refuting and contending for the Truth and verascity of the Holy Scriptures which you guys, time and time again, keep twisting to make the Scriptures say what you want them to say. Sick and tired of it.

I wish you guys had your own room here on the Tree to bore each other to death in. If Housewolf were to give you guys your own room, I promise you that I would never set foot inside of that room.

It should be made that any guests to your room would be allowed to ask questions, but not allowed to argue with your response to those questions directed to you. This way, the stupid can be sucked into your web of deception and help thin out the gene pool.

Why do I say that? It's because of your fellow co-conspirators that have run afoul with the .gov and as a result, they go after your kind.

This would be a headache for Housewolf and he would have to put your room in the members only section to keep prying eyes out and for peace of mind for Housewolf.

Lets face it... You guys are seditious to the cause of Jesus Christ and to the .gov...

You have accused people of lying and twisting Scripture simply because they do not abide by the same doctrine you (and the majority) accept. Now you want people you don't agree with segregated from the rest. You can continue your persecution, but you cannot stop the Truth.

Truth is neither dictated by democracy nor spurious translations of the Bible. Truth is also not dictated by people insecure in their faith that they would rather hide our views in the Cemetery, or in our own hole where no one can read them. If we are so obviously wrong, it should be incredibly easy for you to tear it apart, but you don't because you can't. The evidence supports the Truth.

You repeatedly use the words Jew and Gentile as a support for your doctrine. Is that really Truth? Does the underlying meaning of the words you spout truly support it? No.

The word Jew itself is erroneous. A truncated transliteration of a Latin word that has adapted a modern definition that is not supported in Scripture. The word distinctly means Judean--someone of the nation of Judea or of the culture. The Greek word being Ioudaios, a word rooted from the word Ioudaia which is Judea.

Jew does not mean Israelite or Judahite. This is evident in John 7:1 when Jesus was walking in Galilee to be avoid being killed by the Jews (Judeans). Galillee was the home of Israelites as well, but they weren't seeking to kill Him; only the Judeans were seeking to kill Him, so he avoided Judea.

The word Gentile has got to be the most deceptive of all. It is a completely modern fabrication from the transliteration of the Latin adjective gentilis which means 'of or 'belonging to a nation'. The word replaces two different Greek words in the KJV: Hellen and ethnos. Hellen meaning Greek and ethnos meaning nation. The word ethnos does not mean non-Israelite as can succinctly be seen in John 18:35 when Pilot uses the word in reference to the Jews (Judeans).

There is a repeated contrast of two groups in the New Testament because there are two groups being discussed: the divorced house of Israel and the house of Judah. The Greek and Judean contrast is one of many references to these two groups.

When Paul wrote in Romans 11 of the wild olive tree being grafted onto the 'cultivated' olive tree , he was referring of the rejoining of the houses of Israel and Judah. This was a fulfillment of the two stick prophecy in Ezekiel 37. Throughout the Old Testament olive trees are used to represent Israel such as the olive tree in Jeremiah 11:16, which says, The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

The houses are rejoined now, not later as some would say. This is told in Hebrews 8:8-12 (quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34) which says,

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

...and finished with a new declaration,

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The new covenant is for Israel and Judah and they have been reunited in the Christ.

[The End of Days]

Daytonabill0001, glad you and your ilk are here. Saves me a lot of typing and looking up scriptures.

Allow me to help you and Daytonabill0001 out with the scripture. Maybe I can "twist" it some more by quoting it.

Who did Jesus come for?

Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mat 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Act 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Act 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

[Daytonabill0001]

You have accused people of lying and twisting Scripture simply because they do not abide by the same doctrine you (and the majority) accept. Now you want people you don't agree with segregated from the rest. You can continue your persecution, but you cannot stop the Truth.

Truth is neither dictated by democracy nor spurious translations of the Bible. Truth is also not dictated by people insecure in their faith that they would rather hide our views in the Cemetery, or in our own hole where no one can read them. If we are so obviously wrong, it should be incredibly easy for you to tear it apart, but you don't because you can't. The evidence supports the Truth.

You repeatedly use the words Jew and Gentile as a support for your doctrine. Is that really Truth? Does the underlying meaning of the words you spout truly support it? No.

The word Jew itself is erroneous. A truncated transliteration of a Latin word that has adapted a modern definition that is not supported in Scripture. The word distinctly means Judean--someone of the nation of Judea or of the culture. The Greek word being Ioudaios, a word rooted from the word Ioudaia which is Judea.

Jew does not mean Israelite or Judahite. This is evident in John 7:1 when Jesus was walking in Galilee to be avoid being killed by the Jews (Judeans). Galillee was the home of Israelites as well, but they weren't seeking to kill Him; only the Judeans were seeking to kill Him, so he avoided Judea.

The word Gentile has got to be the most deceptive of all. It is a completely modern fabrication from the transliteration of the Latin adjective gentilis which means 'of or 'belonging to a nation'. The word replaces two different Greek words in the KJV: Hellen and ethnos. Hellen meaning Greek and ethnos meaning nation. The word ethnos does not mean non-Israelite as can succinctly be seen in John 18:35 when Pilot uses the word in reference to the Jews (Judeans).

There is a repeated contrast of two groups in the New Testament because there are two groups being discussed: the divorced house of Israel and the house of Judah. The Greek and Judean contrast is one of many references to these two groups.

When Paul wrote in Romans 11 of the wild olive tree being grafted onto the 'cultivated' olive tree , he was referring of the rejoining of the houses of Israel and Judah. This was a fulfillment of the two stick prophecy in Ezekiel 37. Throughout the Old Testament olive trees are used to represent Israel such as the olive tree in Jeremiah 11:16, which says, The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

The houses are rejoined now, not later as some would say. This is told in Hebrews 8:8-12 (quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34) which says,

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

...and finished with a new declaration,

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The new covenant is for Israel and Judah and they have been reunited in the Christ.

Forgive me Clarity, my Lord Jesus did say "Let the tares grow with the wheat"... Let me ask you something, does Jesus confirm the Word in your midst as in;

Mar 16:17 And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;
Mar 16:18 They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.
Mar 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after He had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and He sat down at the right hand of God. [Ps. 110:1.]
Mar 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message by the attesting signs and miracles that closely accompanied [it]. Amen (so be it).

Well? Does Jesus confirm His Word like that in your midst? Can any of you run out demons? Do people get healed when you lay hands on them? Are you led by the Spirit of God? Have you ever been warned of danger by that small, still voice as you went about in your daily activities? Do you live a lifestyle that is holy, even as He is holy?

Being blind to the truth as is evident in your expositions, I can work the most brilliant responses to your lies and you would fail to see it. Let's face it, Jesus doesn't confirm your message with miracles and signs... That means your truth is not the truth. Sorry, Jesus still confirms His Word even today... The truth as revealed in the Word of God has power, supernatural, Holy Ghost breathed power, I don't see that among your group.

If I'm wrong, show me the evidence where Jesus confirms your message with miracles and signs following...

[Emily]

Allow me to help you and Daytonabill0001 out with the scripture. Maybe I can "twist" it some more by quoting it.

Who did Jesus come for?

Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mat 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Act 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Act 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Scripture does not contradict scripture.

Jesus did come FIRST to Israel but the gift He came to give of redemption was first promised in the Garden of Eden and then reaffirmed to Abraham.
They were not Israel.

Gen 12
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.

John 1
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John 4
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a]) 10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

John 12
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

1 John 2

1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 6
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

John 12
30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

Gen 18
18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.

Psalm 22
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

There are more but it is clear that He is the savior to ALL men and women, not just Israel.

Israel is the lineage through whom He was born and first offered the gift of salvation and through whom Christianity was born.

The issue so many forget is that when we become a Christian we are BORN AGAIN a child of God - through the lineage of the second Adam as a NEW CREATION. The first Adam was a child of God before the fall. Adam gave up his inheritance when he sold out to Satan.

Israel were never called a child of God. Christians who are born again a NEW CREATION are called Children of God.

Jesus doesn't tell people who come to Him that they will be given the right to be called Israel.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

John 1:12
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

John 3:3
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."


Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
(Die to self)

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Romans 8:1
[ Life Through the Spirit ] Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 6
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

So while so many struggle to either claim to be a part of Israel, replace Israel, or replace Israel with the church - when someone comes to a saving faith, they become a NEW CREATION and a child of God.

Israel is unique in that God chose Jacob (the one who struggled with God and triumphed) as the lineage through which the messiah would come and also as a witness to the world that God Is Real. He will continue to work through them until it is all complete (Rev 22). The struggle with Jacob was prophetic. Clearly a man cannot win against God. But the name was significant to remind all of us that in the end, God will bring her through until all the world sees the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as the one true God.

No one of Israel individually are saved unless they come to a saving faith but the nation of Israel will continue to be the focus of God's attention and work as a witness to the world.

[Daytonabill0001]

Allow me to help you and Daytonabill0001 out with the scripture. Maybe I can "twist" it some more by quoting it.

Who did Jesus come for?

Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luk 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mat 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Act 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Act 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Php 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Oh my Lord, he asked me the hardest, most feared question anyone could ever devise!!! Just kidding, but you are wrestling with the Scriptures to your own destruction.

All I have to do, using my own little mind, is to type whatever the Holy Spirit tells me and then I type the scripture... Actually I find the Scripture I hear and then I copy and paste it here...

I present to you this one verse that should, I said should, explain everything to you. But it probably won't... After all, the blind lead the blind, much like the Pharisees and the Sadducees of old...

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisee sect, Nicodemus, a prominent leader among the Jews.
Joh 3:2 Late one night he visited Jesus and said, "Rabbi, we all know you're a teacher straight from God. No one could do all the God-pointing, God-revealing acts you do if God weren't in on it."
Joh 3:3 Jesus said, "You're absolutely right. Take it from me: Unless a person is born from above, it's not possible to see what I'm pointing to--to God's kingdom."
Joh 3:4 "How can anyone," said Nicodemus, "be born who has already been born and grown up? You can't re-enter your mother's womb and be born again. What are you saying with this 'born-from-above' talk?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus said, "You're not listening. Let me say it again. Unless a person submits to this original creation--the 'wind hovering over the water' creation, the invisible moving the visible, a baptism into a new life--it's not possible to enter God's kingdom.
Joh 3:6 When you look at a baby, it's just that: a body you can look at and touch. But the person who takes shape within is formed by something you can't see and touch--the Spirit--and becomes a living spirit.
Joh 3:7 "So don't be so surprised when I tell you that you have to be 'born from above'--out of this world, so to speak.
Joh 3:8 You know well enough how the wind blows this way and that. You hear it rustling through the trees, but you have no idea where it comes from or where it's headed next. That's the way it is with everyone 'born from above' by the wind of God, the Spirit of God."
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus asked, "What do you mean by this? How does this happen?"
Joh 3:10 Jesus said, "You're a respected teacher of Israel and you don't know these basics?
Joh 3:11 Listen carefully. I'm speaking sober truth to you. I speak only of what I know by experience; I give witness only to what I have seen with my own eyes. There is nothing secondhand here, no hearsay. Yet instead of facing the evidence and accepting it, you procrastinate with questions.
Joh 3:12 If I tell you things that are plain as the hand before your face and you don't believe me, what use is there in telling you of things you can't see, the things of God?
Joh 3:13 "No one has ever gone up into the presence of God except the One who came down from that Presence, the Son of Man.
Joh 3:14 In the same way that Moses lifted the serpent in the desert so people could have something to see and then believe, it is necessary for the Son of Man to be lifted up--
Joh 3:15 and everyone who looks up to him, trusting and expectant, will gain a real life, eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life.
Joh 3:17 God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again.
Joh 3:18 Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.
Joh 3:19 "This is the crisis we're in: God-light streamed into the world, but men and women everywhere ran for the darkness. They went for the darkness because they were not really interested in pleasing God.
Joh 3:20 Everyone who makes a practice of doing evil, addicted to denial and illusion, hates God-light and won't come near it, fearing a painful exposure.
Joh 3:21 But anyone working and living in truth and reality welcomes God-light so the work can be seen for the God-work it is."

I didn't see anything in what Jesus told old Nicky that would indicate that salvation belongs only to any certain group... Did you? Oh, silly me, I shouldn't expect you to all of a sudden renounce your ways, you are going to keep on deceiving as you always have.

It's going to take a Damascus Road experience to turn you to the light. That's what it took to get Paul to turn around. Paul turned out to be God's greatest apostle to the Gentiles...

Sorry, I forgot that the tribulation period, better known as the time of Jacob's Trouble, will force alot of people who are playing around to come to the fork in the road.

There, you will have to choose which way to go and that will be your last free choice you will ever get to make. When you get to that fork, chose wisely, your eternal fate depends on it.

Hello Emily, that's wild, my post ended up agreeing with yours and I didn't even know you had posted while I was working on mine... God bless you Emily!!!

[The End of Days]

Oh my Lord, he asked me the hardest, most feared question anyone could ever devise!!! Just kidding, but you are wrestling with the Scriptures to your own destruction.

All I have to do, using my own little mind, is to type whatever the Holy Spirit tells me and then I type the scripture... Actually I find the Scripture I hear and then I copy and paste it here...

I present to you this one verse that should, I said should, explain everything to you. But it probably won't... After all, the blind lead the blind, much like the Pharisees and the Sadducees of old...

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisee sect, Nicodemus, a prominent leader among the Jews.
Joh 3:2 Late one night he visited Jesus and said, "Rabbi, we all know you're a teacher straight from God. No one could do all the God-pointing, God-revealing acts you do if God weren't in on it."
Joh 3:3 Jesus said, "You're absolutely right. Take it from me: Unless a person is born from above, it's not possible to see what I'm pointing to--to God's kingdom."
Joh 3:4 "How can anyone," said Nicodemus, "be born who has already been born and grown up? You can't re-enter your mother's womb and be born again. What are you saying with this 'born-from-above' talk?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus said, "You're not listening. Let me say it again. Unless a person submits to this original creation--the 'wind hovering over the water' creation, the invisible moving the visible, a baptism into a new life--it's not possible to enter God's kingdom.
Joh 3:6 When you look at a baby, it's just that: a body you can look at and touch. But the person who takes shape within is formed by something you can't see and touch--the Spirit--and becomes a living spirit.
Joh 3:7 "So don't be so surprised when I tell you that you have to be 'born from above'--out of this world, so to speak.
Joh 3:8 You know well enough how the wind blows this way and that. You hear it rustling through the trees, but you have no idea where it comes from or where it's headed next. That's the way it is with everyone 'born from above' by the wind of God, the Spirit of God."
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus asked, "What do you mean by this? How does this happen?"
Joh 3:10 Jesus said, "You're a respected teacher of Israel and you don't know these basics?
Joh 3:11 Listen carefully. I'm speaking sober truth to you. I speak only of what I know by experience; I give witness only to what I have seen with my own eyes. There is nothing secondhand here, no hearsay. Yet instead of facing the evidence and accepting it, you procrastinate with questions.
Joh 3:12 If I tell you things that are plain as the hand before your face and you don't believe me, what use is there in telling you of things you can't see, the things of God?
Joh 3:13 "No one has ever gone up into the presence of God except the One who came down from that Presence, the Son of Man.
Joh 3:14 In the same way that Moses lifted the serpent in the desert so people could have something to see and then believe, it is necessary for the Son of Man to be lifted up--
Joh 3:15 and everyone who looks up to him, trusting and expectant, will gain a real life, eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life.
Joh 3:17 God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again.
Joh 3:18 Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.
Joh 3:19 "This is the crisis we're in: God-light streamed into the world, but men and women everywhere ran for the darkness. They went for the darkness because they were not really interested in pleasing God.
Joh 3:20 Everyone who makes a practice of doing evil, addicted to denial and illusion, hates God-light and won't come near it, fearing a painful exposure.
Joh 3:21 But anyone working and living in truth and reality welcomes God-light so the work can be seen for the God-work it is."

I didn't see anything in what Jesus told old Nicky that would indicate that salvation belongs only to any certain group... Did you? Oh, silly me, I shouldn't expect you to all of a sudden renounce your ways, you are going to keep on deceiving as you always have.

It's going to take a Damascus Road experience to turn you to the light. That's what it took to get Paul to turn around. Paul turned out to be God's greatest apostle to the Gentiles...

Sorry, I forgot that the tribulation period, better known as the time of Jacob's Trouble, will force alot of people who are playing around to come to the fork in the road.

There, you will have to choose which way to go and that will be your last free choice you will ever get to make. When you get to that fork, chose wisely, your eternal fate depends on it.

Hello Emily, that's wild, my post ended up agreeing with yours and I didn't even know you had posted while I was working on mine... God bless you Emily!!!

Again, context. It's like a broken record with you. Jesus himself said who he came for. Everything else falls under that context. Someone can believe the words of Jesus or believe another doctrine. That is up to people to decide themselves. On the Day of the Lord, ignorance will not be an excuse.