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Thread: Do You Believe in Scripture And in Scripture Alone?

  1. #31
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    Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Consequently, sola scriptura demands that only those doctrines are to be admitted or confessed that are found directly within or indirectly by using valid logical deduction or valid deductive reasoning from scripture. However, sola scriptura is not a denial of other authorities governing Christian life and devotion. Rather, it simply demands that all other authorities are subordinate to, and are to be corrected by, the written word of God. Sola scriptura was a foundational doctrinal principle of the Protestant Reformation held by the Reformers and is a formal principle of Protestantism today.


    By contrast, the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches teach that the Scriptures are not the only infallible source of Christian doctrine. For them Scripture is but one of three equal authorities; the other two being Sacred Tradition and the episcopacy. These churches also believe that the Church has authority to establish or restrict interpretation of Scriptures because, in part, it implicitly selected which books were to be in the biblical canon through its traditions, whereas Protestants believe the Church passively recognized and received the books that were already widely considered canonical.


    Sola scriptura is one of the five solas, considered by some Protestant groups to be the theological pillars of the Reformation.[2] The key implication of the principle is that interpretations and applications of the Scriptures do not have the same authority as the Scriptures themselves; hence, the ecclesiastical authority is viewed as subject to correction by the Scriptures, even by an individual member of the Church.


    Luther said, "a simple layman armed with Scripture is greater than the mightiest pope without it". The intention of the Reformation was to correct the perceived errors of the Catholic Church by appeal to the uniqueness of the Bible's authority and to reject what Catholics considered to be Apostolic Tradition as a source of original authority alongside the Bible, wherever Tradition did not have biblical support or where it supposedly contradicted Scripture.


    Sola scriptura, however, does not ignore Christian history and tradition when seeking to understand the Bible. Rather, it sees the Bible as the only final authority in matters of faith and practice. As Martin Luther said, "The true rule is this: God's Word shall establish articles of faith, and no one else, not even an angel can do so."[3]
    The term heretical is commonly used by Protestants who denounce teachings and institutions that they accordingly view as deviating from Scripture.




    According to sola scriptura, the Church does not speak infallibly in its traditions, but only in Scripture. As John Wesley stated in the 18th century, "In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church."[28] For this reason, sola scriptura is called the formal cause or principle of the Reformation.

    Protestants argue that the Scriptures are guaranteed to remain true to their divine source; and, thus, only insofar as the Church retains scriptural faith is it assured of God's favor. Following such an argument, if the Church were to fall away from faith through Scripture (a possibility which Roman Catholics deny but Protestants affirm), its authority would be negated. Therefore, the early Protestants argued for the elimination of traditions and doctrines they believed were based on distortions of Scripture, or were contrary to the Bible, but which the Roman Catholic Church considered scripturally-based aspects of the Christian faith, such as transubstantiation (John 6:51), the doctrine of purgatory (1 Cor 3:15), the veneration of images or icons (Numbers 21:8), and especially the doctrine that the Pope in Rome is the head of the Church on earth (Papal supremacy) (John 21:17).


    -----just some excerpts from wikipedia, there is alot more info on WHY sola scripture was considered so very important.

    fascinating stuff that gets you thinking. sola scriptura was not meant as a weapon against the RCC or to harm it, it was meant as a tool of reform that the church badly needed. the church responded violently seeing it as an attack on its authority and power, it denied it needed any reform and demanded obedience. hence the great split or schism.

    i believe if the church had humbled itself, examined itself and cleaned house, no split would have happened. in my view the church brought it on itself.

    not unlike a person claiming to be a christian who is confronted by other christians for their unchristian behavior. the person can examine themselves and repent of their errors or can get mad and say go to hell to the confronters. the RCC said in effect go to hell to those challenging it.

    as i said, it is fascinating and would in a way be humorous or silly if not for all the people excommunicated, imprisoned, tortured or burned for daring to question the church.

    very sad, very, very sad time.
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  2. #32
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    I will gladly accept your observations as to how some people get swept up in the Adoration of Mary. I will never tell anyone that Mary is a key to their Salvation. Do however indulge me, I'm also certain that in this world, many times, women and parents, who struggle in poverty, working so hard. Could look to Mary as an example of how a good child can be raised in a world filled with misery and sin. I will also agree with you, that it is rather a bit too much with the weeping statues, all of that.

    I will also say, in the vein of going to far, that one of the FIRST slams out of the average Protestant's mouth going after Catholics is right at Mary. While I see no need to Worship Mary, I see the pattern going the other way.

    In my ONE, and ONLY criticism of the Sola concept, AGAIN, I don't dispute with anyone, the Bibles Sacred status, it's inerrant status, or it's being the inspired works of God, through men.

    My only contention with the concept, is that it diminishes the personal, human contact of love and witness by loving, Holy Spirit filled people. I Worship Christ, his teachings, and his example. I don't Worship this, or any book. Christ didn't write anything, he TAUGHT, he touched, he lived, and he gave everything. When he offered the bread, it was HIS portion for the day. To walk with Christ is to strive to do the same.

    Try as one might, the same impression is really hard to effect from a book, even to a receptive reader, compared to that of loving human interaction. Why is that so hard to agree with?

    Otherwise, I couldn't care less if anyone were to be led to convert Rome. It is telling that anywhere you go, and discuss this, it can't be done without the Sola crowd throwing turnips on the Catholics. I won't otherwise claim to say that in many peoples minds, Sola IS an assault on Catholicism. It does seem to be on the front line of those explaining the concept, as well as any argument over it. I have no intention to argue over it, the Spirit isn't in it for me. Again, I'm pleading for the Soul reaching out to another, in torment, alone, sick and in prison, I'm sure you've read that. A dusty Bible in that cell might be a comfort, but nothing like someone to talk to.

    I also wish all of those evil crimes by those claiming to do so in Christs name never would've happened. The history of mankind is filled with the fruits of original sin. We as such love the darkness, without his Grace, we continue to walk towards it. All due to our sinful nature. While all of these crimes you say are historical fact, these were EVERY bit as well, the sins and crimes of MEN, not the Church Christ began.

    You also forgot to give mention to the countless Saints who died willingly espousing the same values. Someone working with a bias only filters out or in what the bias is working for, so, even with Bible studies, it is good and proper to seek fellow Christians for sharing and comparing our perceptions of the Holy Writ, I'm sure you'd allow for that? even the occasional Sunday School?

    Point me then, in the direction of the Congregation that isn't filled with sinners, that too, is where I'd like to go.

    The gate has always been narrow, and the Bible can inspire, but to SEE, to WITNESS someone living a life going against the tides, shedding off temporal comforts, wealth, things of the earth, filled with the Love and Grace of the Holy Spirit, that is the Christ like example I'd like to follow. Show me where there's more people living the great Commission, because I for one can't get close enough, often enough, to the Holy Spirit.

    I'm certain some can be swayed by reading a book, but to see and touch and be around that is where most will be drawn to. God must know the same, he became as Flesh, and did it for us, gave us a living example of what he wishes for us. He didn't just send the manual. He already tried that.

    Perhaps what we're witnessing, are countless mini reformations? did you ever think of that? when someone feels that first presence of the Holy Spirit come down, when they REALLY know, REALLY FEEL Christ come into their heart, and that all powerful love inside of them, they want to keep that, to grow closer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. It may just be that they get a taste of some of the Churches, and they don't know HOW to say whats missing, but they know that the Spirit that filled them isn't in there, and they keep looking for it. Perhaps all too many Christians might not be able to throw Scriptures around as poison darts, to tear down, to destroy, but satan does, and thats ALL he does.

    Sometimes it's better to love, than to be right. Even if Rome sucks, I still say, your hanging WAY too much on that one peg.
    "You Can't MAKE this stuff up."


    They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it. For it was the stumbling block of their iniquity.
    Ezekiel 7:19




  3. #33
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    Sometimes it's better to love, than to be right.---

    God bless you Capt, you have a sweet soul. we may disagree here and there on some things, but you are always good to talk with.
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  4. #34
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    One of the most committed Christians I know, a man who walks with Jesus each day, who not only speaks his faith, but lives it and shares it with everyone at all times, who lost a son to brain cancer and then has spent the last 20 years raising money for St. Jude Hospital without a penny being spent to fund the raising of the money, who reminds people continuously that Jesus is the Truth, the Light and the Way, who is the closest to be in the presence of a living breathing saint, one of my oldest friends, is a Roman Catholic.

    Praise Jesus.

    If Jesus didn't want men sharing the gospel by word and deed, why did he appoint Apostles? Why are we given the Holy Spirit? I, too, believe all of the truth that is necessary is in Holy Scripture, which is God breathed and men were inspired to write it down and translate it in the way it needs to be so that every person can find the Truth there. Those are the Words that are used by men to share the Light, the Truth and the Way. It us usually a person who leads someone to Scripture. Jesus Christ is presented and worshiped in the Roman Church. As Jesus Himself said to his Apostles who were grumbling about others spreading the Gospel, that if they weren't against us they are for us. The Roman Catholic Church is spreading and has spread the Gospel. It is full of sinners just like every Protestant Church.

    Churchgoing people should be reminded that Christ pointed out that His Church is like the body; many, many parts make up the body, each doing it's own thing which makes the body work as one critter with Christ as it's head. With the body perhaps cancer could be described as Satan, getting into the body and trying to destroy it, cause it to eat itself up, to break it down so that it no longer works together but it divides like a plague and kills it. Churches that preach and teach Christ crucified, died, resurrected and went home to heaven are all part of that body that is His church; having varied purposes and jobs but all working for each other to make it whole.

    For me, I have too many things in my life that shame me and nearly bring me down because I fail and fail and fail and Jesus lifts me up and up and up and up. I ain't got any time to rag on denominations. I know the truth and that's good enough.

  5. #35
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    Your story is an Inspiration. ANYONE, can be a Saint. Some, known as lessor, being Family, or regional in focus, often the story goes out, and there you go. Anyone who accepts the challenges God puts them to, and does so well, is a Saint to someone, somewhere, somehow.

    If it weren't for my Saintly Grandmother, I can promise you, based on where I was raised, I'd either be dead, or in prison.

    A Bible, complete, and inerrant, and it is just that, left alone on a shelf, or in a dusty drawer, holds no real power.
    "You Can't MAKE this stuff up."


    They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it. For it was the stumbling block of their iniquity.
    Ezekiel 7:19




  6. #36
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    All Protestants claim to believe in Holy Scripture. Additionally, Protestants claim that the notion of Scripture alone not only exists, but is sound doctrine. If these claims are true, then surely the following Protestant beliefs would be readily available within Holy Scripture. Accordingly, I ask you the following questions:


    1. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase “Scripture Alone”. You can’t as it is a Protestant fabrication originating with the apostate, Martin Luther.
    Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    2. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t as it is another Protestant fabrication originating with Martin Luther, when he added the word ‘alone’ to Rom 3:28, and bragged about doing so.
    You are correct, the statement is not found in scripture, it is a by-product of corruption by liars and corrupt teachers. As to its origin, nay, Martin Luther is NOT its originator. MARCION is its originator!!! As to THE LIE you have placed and continue to place in your questions, "Holy" scripture, that LIE was struck on the cover of the book by YOUR leaders of...<sic>...."orthodoxy". Scripture is papyri/paper/reeds/tablets/stones/animal skins with etching from THORNS/ pens/ reeds/ink. Their is nothing "Holy" about 'scripture, nor is their anything "Holy" about the vault scipture is kept in (bible version). ONLY GOD IS HOLY, the "Holy One"!!!

    3. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture that the father of Protestantism (Martin Luther), and indeed contemporary Protestants, have the right to delete seven canonical books of the Bible. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)
    Anyone has the right to pluck out their eye, cut off their arm, cut off their leg to enter the kingdom "maimed" rather then hell "whole" as commanded by the Lord (Mt.5:29-30). As the word of God in whole is a type and shadow of Christs body, "cutting off" that engrafted in that is "evil", is a right held by all men equally. Their is no leader of either the labels you wont to throw around (protestantism/"orthodoxy") that have authority over any man in this matter. The books you are alluding to claiming "canonical" were chosen by the authority of men you choose to be yoked under, and traditions that make void the word of God. BARE YOUR OWN YOKE, serve your own masters, as for those that are Christs, they will serve the Lord!!!

    4. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that except for Protestants, no one is to add to or subtract from God’s word. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)
    vain repetitions!

    5. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Protestants were given the right to establish ‘churches’ in addition to, and opposition to, the true Church established by Jesus Christ. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17))
    God the Holy One, is going to found his church upon an unbelieving (Jn 13:9), faithless (Mt.14:31),unconverted (Lk 22:32) canaanite (Mt 10:4, Mk 3:1 who denied him (Mt 26:34, Mt.10:33), wicked (Mt.26:51-52), betrayer (Jn.21:17), and corruptor of the church (Jn 21:1, the BEAR of the BEAST of Revelation ch.13 (Acts 15:10, 12:7, Rev.13:2, Gal.1:18, Dan.11:27) a ringleader in the greatest APOSTASIA known to man??? (Acts 15, Gal. 1:1, who served and followed the ANGEL OF SATAN AND HIS ANTICHRIST(Gal.1:18, Acts 12:7, 2 Cor.12:7, Dan 7:8 and dozens more)??????. To have the gall to seduce via your sorceries of "orthodoxy" that the son of Jonas replaced the son of God as THE ROCK (Psa 95:1) and STONE (Dan 2:34)????? THOU ART DRUNK with the "double" God has ordained you (Rev.18:16). Walk in the light of it thereof (Isa.50:11, Hab.2:16).

    6. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible is the ‘pillar and bulwark of truth’. You can’t. (1Ti 3:15)
    This one doesnt deserve the time of day!

    7. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus established a book. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17)
    Prov 3:3, 7:3, Isa 10:19, 30:8, Jer.31:33, Lk 10;20, Rev.20:12 to name a few!

    8. Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Thou art Peter, the rock, and upon this rock I will write my Bible”. You can’t. (Mat 16:1
    Why dost thou tempt the Lord God???

    9. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told His disciples to write anything down. You can’t. (Mat 10:1-15)
    Lk 22:36, Hab 2:2!!!

    10. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus told His disciples to spread the Faith by publishing a book. You can’t.
    Mk 5:20, Deut.32:3, Jer 4:5, 4:16, 5:20, Psa 26:7 and on and on!!!!!

    11. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible comprises 100% of the Faith. You can’t. (Joh 20:30-31; Joh 21:25; Joh 16:12-15)
    Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 2:7, 1 Pet 1:23-25, Rev 1:2!!!!!!!!!!!

    12. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “except for you Protestants, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained. You can’t. (Joh 20:21-23; 2Co 5:18 )
    Your house and its heads CANT FORGIVE A HOUSEFLY!!! (Jer 31:30, Psa 94:23, Ezek 18:4). Neither has it any authority to do ANYTHING (Lk 20:8, Pr.29:2)

    13. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “This is My Body; This is My Blood. Except for you Protestants, do this in remembrance of Me”. You can’t. (Luk 22:19-20 1Co 11:24-25)
    Why accusest thou when thou ART GUILTY???? (Jn 6:53)

    14, Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Truly, Truly except for you Protestants, unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you.”. You can’t. (Joh 6:47-58 )
    Mk 7:8-9....whenever the saints partake of the word, THEY ARE EATING HIS FLESH AND DRINKING HIS BLOOD!!!! But YOUR father sayeth otherwise (Jn 8:3

    15. Show me please, where in the Gospels the Blessed Mother of God states “All the world, except for Protestants, shall call me blessed.”. You can’t. (Luk 1:48 )
    WRONG MOTHER!!! (Mt 12:48-50, Jn 2:4) THY BLASPHEMIES BEWRAYETH THY SPEECH (Rev.13:6)

    16. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that “Everything that Jesus did is contained in the Bible.”. You can’t. (Joh 21:25)
    An insult to the intelligence!

    17. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states "So faith comes from what is read, and what is read comes by the preaching of Christ. But I ask, have they not read? Indeed they have; for "The Bible has gone out to all the earth, and the Bible to the ends of the world." You can’t. (Rom 10:17-18 )
    Isa 52:10, 1 Cor.10:11

    18. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told anyone not to keep the commandments, as all one has to do is state ‘I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior’, and he is forever ‘saved’ and free to sin boldly. You can’t. (Mat 19:16-19)
    This one I shall AGREE on with you!!!

    19. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that, except for Protestants, good works are necessary. You can’t. (Mat 7:21, Jam 3:14-26, Phi 2:12-13, Rev 3:15-16, Joh 15:1-2, 1CO 3:9; 2Co 5:10; Mat 25:31-46; et al) (Refer to Note 1 below).
    This one I AGREE with you in part!. However, what ye of the supposed 'orthodoxy' deem as "good works" and the good works indicated by Christ and others in scrip, ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER. Thats not a wonder for THE DEVIL uses the word of God to destroy the Lords children as well (Gen 3:1, Mk 8:15)!!!

    20. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Jesus will leave the Church alone as orphans for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise, delete seven books of the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Joh 14:18 )
    Lk 22:22, Mt 9:15....as to your other accusations, those not of your house HAVE BEEN MANY during those 1500 years. Luther was not their father and they themselves rejected your poison scrolls of abominations! I am pretty much assured now that you are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of your own history, of the bible, of how the canon came to be, of the wickedness of your own house!

    21. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the gates of Hell will prevail against the Church for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise and delete seven books from the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Mat 16:18 )
    Rev.ch.13, Mt.24:39......you like to accuse the rejecting of your apocryphal latin scrips, but refuse to acknowledge your own scrip rejecting and enumerations by lot. HYPOCRITE!!!!. Your "fathers" of your house were INFIDELS AND BASTARD SONS, heretics of the highest degree, ROBBERS, MURDERERS, ANTICHRISTS who raped, pillaged, burned, usurped, butchered the Lords words and his heritage and claimed it all under his authority. Your fathers MUTILATED the Lords garment parted by 4 lots/gospels, placed therein AN ABOMINATION overshadowing the Christ, and have not rested day nor night till that time to make proselytes two-fold the child of hell more then your selves!!! But thou knowest this already thyself (Rev.12:12)

    “If you believe what you like in the Gospel and r4eject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” St. Augustine.
    Rev.14:6!!!!


    Note 1:

    Protestants proclaim that all one has to do to be forever justified is to satisfy John 3:16 by simply stating once during their lifetime something similar to "I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior.".

    John 3:16 reads:
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (RSV-CE)

    The Greek word used in this citation and translated as ‘believes’ is pisteuo. It means to ‘have faith in’ or to ‘believe in’.

    Protestants take this verse out of context, and hold that anyone who simply declares that ‘Jesus is my Lord and personal Savior.’ is saved. That is to say, that nothing else is required. All subsequent sins committed by any one making this claim, will not bar them from Heaven.

    The Protestant King James Version translates John 3:36 as follows.

    Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Your attention is directed to the two words: ‘believeth’ and ‘believeth’ in the KJV translation of Joh 3:36 above. Two different words are used in the Greek, and the King James Version translates both of them as ‘believeth’. This is incorrect, and is a false translation.

    The first word in Joh 3:36 translated by the King James Version as ‘believeth’ is pisteuo. As mentioned above, it is a correct translation i.e. .believeth’ or ‘believes’. However, the second word translated incorrectly as ‘believeth’ is apeitheo. Apeitheo means to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Hence, the citation above from the King James Version is inaccurate and false.

    The RSV-CE has the correct translation which reads:

    Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. (RSV-CE)

    Thus, we see clearly that the Protestant claim that all they have to do is satisfy Joh 3:16 once during their lifetime, and they are forever saved is false and erroneous.

    Individual verses of Holy Scripture must be read in context.

    Text taken out of context is a pretext.

    Now re-read all of the 3rd chapter of John’s gospel, using the correct translation of Joh 3:36 as per the RSV-CE above.

    http://jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/


    Furthermore, Protestants ignoring the following (which are only a few) does not make them disappear or render them inapplicable:

    “So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder.” (Cf. Jas 2:17-19)

    The teaching of Jesus could not be any clearer on this requirement. Consider the following from the Gospel of Matthew: "Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Cf. Matt. 19:16-19)

    "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." (Cf. Rev 22:12)
    The very same one who is the author of this rightly so heresy (Eph.2:15), is the same one you like to appeal to to prove your own abominations. YOU WILL USE LIES AND DECEITS TO AUTHORIZE YOUR OWN WICKEDNESS, proving the one whom ye appeal to is the one who is your "first" father. And rightly so for PETER WAS NEVER A "POPE", LINUS WAS THE FIRST POPE ORDAINED BY THE ANTICHRIST "PAULUS". PETER NEVER LEFT THE REGION, NEVER WENT TO ROME!!! THE FIRST CANON THEIR EVER WAS WAS THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW IN "HEBREW" USED UP TIL AT LEAST 64ad CONTAINING NONE OF THE ABOMINATIONS ENGRAFTED BY THE FATHERS OF YOUR HOUSE THEY LATER PLACED THEREIN!!!!

    Yea, certainly I hear from you by your every breath "hath God said?" (Gen 3:1)....

    Mt.23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
    3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
    4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
    5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
    6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
    7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
    8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
    9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
    10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
    11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
    12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
    13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
    14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

  7. #37
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    I will gladly accept your observations as to how some people get swept up in the Adoration of Mary. I will never tell anyone that Mary is a key to their Salvation. Do however indulge me, I'm also certain that in this world, many times, women and parents, who struggle in poverty, working so hard. Could look to Mary as an example of how a good child can be raised in a world filled with misery and sin. I will also agree with you, that it is rather a bit too much with the weeping statues, all of that.

    I will also say, in the vein of going to far, that one of the FIRST slams out of the average Protestant's mouth going after Catholics is right at Mary. While I see no need to Worship Mary, I see the pattern going the other way.
    Freind, "lukewarm" is recieved with SPEWING (Rev 3:16) Slamming the woman called Mary first is because she is a byproduct and creation of those BEHIND her reverance, it stands out. To attack "it" first is reactive because of the representation. To attack it first is a response BY GOD through his people who know him to destroy the evil works, idols and idolatry of mens hands and minds. BLAME IT ON GOD!

    In my ONE, and ONLY criticism of the Sola concept, AGAIN, I don't dispute with anyone, the Bibles Sacred status, it's inerrant status, or it's being the inspired works of God, through men.
    No "bible" is "sacred. No 'bible' is inerrant. Whether its an AV, or a Vulgate, or whatever you want to foist, THEY ARE ALL ERRANT because the men placed in charge with the responsibility of Gods words are ALL ERRANT. However, said errancies do not bound the word of God. THE WORD IS "ALIVE" AND THE WORD IS "SPIRIT" (Jn 6:63). No matter what men do to it on paper, those who have his spirit will detect, determine, judge what is the live from the memorex (job 6:30, 12:11)

    My only contention with the concept, is that it diminishes the personal, human contact of love and witness by loving, Holy Spirit filled people. I Worship Christ, his teachings, and his example. I don't Worship this, or any book. Christ didn't write anything, he TAUGHT, he touched, he lived, and he gave everything. When he offered the bread, it was HIS portion for the day. To walk with Christ is to strive to do the same.
    Jn 8:6......the ground was THE DUST from which ye are made from. The Lord WRITES upon the tables of human hearts now under the new covenant.

    Try as one might, the same impression is really hard to effect from a book, even to a receptive reader, compared to that of loving human interaction. Why is that so hard to agree with?
    Jer 2:33 Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways.

    Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Their is nothing wrong with human interaction, but when said human interaction compromises the necessity of the defining of truth, then itself becomes a cast away. Their is no agreeing to disagree for the sake of relationship and "love" (Amos 3:3) At the very heart of Christs message was the rejection of this precept.

    Otherwise, I couldn't care less if anyone were to be led to convert Rome. It is telling that anywhere you go, and discuss this, it can't be done without the Sola crowd throwing turnips on the Catholics. I won't otherwise claim to say that in many peoples minds, Sola IS an assault on Catholicism. It does seem to be on the front line of those explaining the concept, as well as any argument over it. I have no intention to argue over it, the Spirit isn't in it for me. Again, I'm pleading for the Soul reaching out to another, in torment, alone, sick and in prison, I'm sure you've read that. A dusty Bible in that cell might be a comfort, but nothing like someone to talk to.
    Im sorry friend, Ill take Gods word over human companionship any day, and that to was one of the premiere messages of Christ. You are saying Gods words are not him or his power wherein God placed his word ABOVE EVERYTHING (Psa 138:2) For us, it determines heaven or hell! (Jn 12:4

    I also wish all of those evil crimes by those claiming to do so in Christs name never would've happened. The history of mankind is filled with the fruits of original sin. We as such love the darkness, without his Grace, we continue to walk towards it. All due to our sinful nature. While all of these crimes you say are historical fact, these were EVERY bit as well, the sins and crimes of MEN, not the Church Christ began.
    Nay friend, their is no "original sin", that is rejected by Jesus himself. The spirit of MAMMON COLLECTIVE is where sin lies. Sin is in the world, your not born with it (Eccl.7:29, 1 Jn 4:4)

    You also forgot to give mention to the countless Saints who died willingly espousing the same values. Someone working with a bias only filters out or in what the bias is working for, so, even with Bible studies, it is good and proper to seek fellow Christians for sharing and comparing our perceptions of the Holy Writ, I'm sure you'd allow for that? even the occasional Sunday School?
    is not this forum a "church" in effect???(Mt 18:20)

    Point me then, in the direction of the Congregation that isn't filled with sinners, that too, is where I'd like to go.
    The very word 'sinners' means and is applied to in context, the continueing practice of sin. Sin simply is and means transgression of the law. So then, if you want to find such a place, then seek one that does not hold to PAULINISM!!!. PAUL IS THE AUTHOR of the transgressing of the law thats written in bibles, aided and abetted by Peter, and finally affirmed by James and the elders at the council of Jerusalem!!!! You will have to reject MANY of both catholic and protestant alike!

    The gate has always been narrow, and the Bible can inspire, but to SEE, to WITNESS someone living a life going against the tides, shedding off temporal comforts, wealth, things of the earth, filled with the Love and Grace of the Holy Spirit, that is the Christ like example I'd like to follow. Show me where there's more people living the great Commission, because I for one can't get close enough, often enough, to the Holy Spirit.
    Great Commision???? The concept in its continuance today is but another vile lie and yoke to keep the sheep under the yokes of their corporate hirelings serving MONEY!.

    I'm certain some can be swayed by reading a book, but to see and touch and be around that is where most will be drawn to. God must know the same, he became as Flesh, and did it for us, gave us a living example of what he wishes for us. He didn't just send the manual. He already tried that.
    Doscetism!!! God did NOT become "as" flesh!. He is NOT in the "likeness" of flesh!!!. Jesus Christ has come IN the flesh, fully man, fully God!!!! You do NOT have or know God if you have a TRINITY or a VIRGIN BIRTH, both of these concepts utterly betray who and what God in fact is. GOD IS A SPIRIT (Jn 4:24)

    Perhaps what we're witnessing, are countless mini reformations? did you ever think of that? when someone feels that first presence of the Holy Spirit come down, when they REALLY know, REALLY FEEL Christ come into their heart, and that all powerful love inside of them, they want to keep that, to grow closer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. It may just be that they get a taste of some of the Churches, and they don't know HOW to say whats missing, but they know that the Spirit that filled them isn't in there, and they keep looking for it. Perhaps all too many Christians might not be able to throw Scriptures around as poison darts, to tear down, to destroy, but satan does, and thats ALL he does.
    Jn 6:63!!!!!. Umm, if you had someTHING come INto you from WITHOUT that was not written on a page my friend, THAT IS A DAIMON!!!!. YOU NEED DELIVERANCE!

    Sometimes it's better to love, than to be right. Even if Rome sucks, I still say, your hanging WAY too much on that one peg.
    Jn 21:15 ¶ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
    Lu 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cub View Post
    .

    Do You Believe in Scripture And in Scripture Alone?


    All Protestants claim to believe in Holy Scripture. Additionally, Protestants claim that the notion of Scripture alone not only exists, but is sound doctrine. If these claims are true, then surely the following Protestant beliefs would be readily available within Holy Scripture. Accordingly, I ask you the following questions:


    1. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase “Scripture Alone”. You can’t as it is a Protestant fabrication originating with the apostate, Martin Luther.

    2. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t as it is another Protestant fabrication originating with Martin Luther, when he added the word ‘alone’ to Rom 3:28, and bragged about doing so.

    3. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture that the father of Protestantism (Martin Luther), and indeed contemporary Protestants, have the right to delete seven canonical books of the Bible. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

    4. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that except for Protestants, no one is to add to or subtract from God’s word. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

    5. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Protestants were given the right to establish ‘churches’ in addition to, and opposition to, the true Church established by Jesus Christ. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17))

    6. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible is the ‘pillar and bulwark of truth’. You can’t. (1Ti 3:15)

    7. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus established a book. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17)

    8. Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Thou art Peter, the rock, and upon this rock I will write my Bible”. You can’t. (Mat 16:1

    9. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told His disciples to write anything down. You can’t. (Mat 10:1-15)

    10. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus told His disciples to spread the Faith by publishing a book. You can’t.

    11. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible comprises 100% of the Faith. You can’t. (Joh 20:30-31; Joh 21:25; Joh 16:12-15)

    12. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “except for you Protestants, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained. You can’t. (Joh 20:21-23; 2Co 5:18 )

    13. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “This is My Body; This is My Blood. Except for you Protestants, do this in remembrance of Me”. You can’t. (Luk 22:19-20 1Co 11:24-25)

    14, Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Truly, Truly except for you Protestants, unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you.”. You can’t. (Joh 6:47-58 )

    15. Show me please, where in the Gospels the Blessed Mother of God states “All the world, except for Protestants, shall call me blessed.”. You can’t. (Luk 1:48 )

    16. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that “Everything that Jesus did is contained in the Bible.”. You can’t. (Joh 21:25)

    17. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states "So faith comes from what is read, and what is read comes by the preaching of Christ. But I ask, have they not read? Indeed they have; for "The Bible has gone out to all the earth, and the Bible to the ends of the world." You can’t. (Rom 10:17-18 )

    18. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told anyone not to keep the commandments, as all one has to do is state ‘I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior’, and he is forever ‘saved’ and free to sin boldly. You can’t. (Mat 19:16-19)

    19. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that, except for Protestants, good works are necessary. You can’t. (Mat 7:21, Jam 3:14-26, Phi 2:12-13, Rev 3:15-16, Joh 15:1-2, 1CO 3:9; 2Co 5:10; Mat 25:31-46; et al) (Refer to Note 1 below).

    20. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Jesus will leave the Church alone as orphans for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise, delete seven books of the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Joh 14:18 )

    21. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the gates of Hell will prevail against the Church for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise and delete seven books from the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Mat 16:18 )


    “If you believe what you like in the Gospel and r4eject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” St. Augustine.


    Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?
    www.call2holiness.org/ScriptureAlone/ScriptureAlone.htm

    Both Faith and Good Works Required
    www.call2holiness.org/faith.html



    Note 1:

    Protestants proclaim that all one has to do to be forever justified is to satisfy John 3:16 by simply stating once during their lifetime something similar to "I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior.".

    John 3:16 reads:
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (RSV-CE)

    The Greek word used in this citation and translated as ‘believes’ is pisteuo. It means to ‘have faith in’ or to ‘believe in’.

    Protestants take this verse out of context, and hold that anyone who simply declares that ‘Jesus is my Lord and personal Savior.’ is saved. That is to say, that nothing else is required. All subsequent sins committed by any one making this claim, will not bar them from Heaven.

    The Protestant King James Version translates John 3:36 as follows.

    Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Your attention is directed to the two words: ‘believeth’ and ‘believeth’ in the KJV translation of Joh 3:36 above. Two different words are used in the Greek, and the King James Version translates both of them as ‘believeth’. This is incorrect, and is a false translation.

    The first word in Joh 3:36 translated by the King James Version as ‘believeth’ is pisteuo. As mentioned above, it is a correct translation i.e. .believeth’ or ‘believes’. However, the second word translated incorrectly as ‘believeth’ is apeitheo. Apeitheo means to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Hence, the citation above from the King James Version is inaccurate and false.

    The RSV-CE has the correct translation which reads:

    Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. (RSV-CE)

    Thus, we see clearly that the Protestant claim that all they have to do is satisfy Joh 3:16 once during their lifetime, and they are forever saved is false and erroneous.

    Individual verses of Holy Scripture must be read in context.

    Text taken out of context is a pretext.

    Now re-read all of the 3rd chapter of John’s gospel, using the correct translation of Joh 3:36 as per the RSV-CE above.

    http://jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/


    Furthermore, Protestants ignoring the following (which are only a few) does not make them disappear or render them inapplicable:

    “So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder.” (Cf. Jas 2:17-19)

    The teaching of Jesus could not be any clearer on this requirement. Consider the following from the Gospel of Matthew: "Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Cf. Matt. 19:16-19)

    "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." (Cf. Rev 22:12)

    .
    You used so many fonts, sizes, and colors no one could possibly answer your questions directly.
    If there's any faithfulness in me, it's only by His grace and totally to His glory...


    God gave the solution to what's coming upon this nation and this world:

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

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