Do You Believe in Scripture And in Scripture Alone?

[BB]

This is just for you Cub.

[quote=The Cub;1568241].

Do You Believe in Scripture And in Scripture Alone?

All Protestants claim to believe in Holy Scripture. Additionally, Protestants claim that the notion of Scripture alone not only exists, but is sound doctrine. If these claims are true, then surely the following Protestant beliefs would be readily available within Holy Scripture. Accordingly, I ask you the following questions:


1. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase “Scripture Alone”. You can’t as it is a Protestant fabrication originating with the apostate, Martin Luther.

There is a failure to understand the meaning of the term "Scripture Alone". This phrase is meant everytime our Lord said, "Thus saith the Lord." When the devil tempted Christ, Jesus only used Scripture to defeat him.

Jesus said that man must not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Notice Jesus said, THE MOUTH OF GOD....not the mouth of men.

The meaning is that ALL doctrine is to be derived by Scripture and not by tradition or churches or men. "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness."

2. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t as it is another Protestant fabrication originating with Martin Luther, when he added the word ‘alone’ to Rom 3:28, and bragged about doing so.

Again you miss the point. It is not the literal phrase that is important as is the meaning of the phrase. Any reading of Romans 3-5 will reveal that it was Abraham's faith that was counted as righteousness....thus it was his faith alone that led to the 'fruits' of good works. But in salvation, it is all of grace....alone. We trust that Jesus paid the debts of our sins on the cross. We trust that Jesus has given us His Spirit to give us power over indwelling sin. And We trust that Jesus will return to deliver us from this evil world of sin. Salvation is all by Jesus by His grace and therefore can only be received by faith.....alone.

3. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture that the father of Protestantism (Martin Luther), and indeed contemporary Protestants, have the right to delete seven canonical books of the Bible. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

Please see biblewheel.com The research done proves conclusively that God intended only 66 books to be in the Bible. You do not find Jesus or any Apostle quoting from the apocaphra in the NT. You also have to ask why the Jews do not include the apocrapha in the Torah.

4. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that except for Protestants, no one is to add to or subtract from God’s word. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

No one is adding or subtracting. But the Catholics add. They add the apocaphra. They add tradition. They add ex cathedra. They add doctrines like the Immaculate Mary and infallibility of the Popes. Luther nailed 95 things the Catholics were 'adding' and 'subtracting'. Have you read them?


5. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Protestants were given the right to establish ‘churches’ in addition to, and opposition to, the true Church established by Jesus Christ. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17))

Whereever two or three are gathered in my Name, there I am. And where believers meet for worship of God there is the church. The Catholic church is not the true church. It actually is the false church described in Rev. 13:11 as the False Prophet and Rev. 17 as the harlot riding the beast.

6. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible is the ‘pillar and bulwark of truth’. You can’t. (1Ti 3:15)

The scripture you quote reads: "the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." Now read Eph. 2:19ff "but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit."

Do you see that the true church must be built on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles....meaning the Word of God. The Catholic church adds to that foundation....the teachings of men, tradition, Popes and Rome.

7. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus established a book. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17)

Jesus is THE LIVING WORD OF GOD.


8. Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Thou art Peter, the rock, and upon this rock I will write my Bible”. You can’t. (Mat 16:1

This point is just being argumentative. Jesus said we must "live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." The Scriptures are inspired by God in order to help God's people root out heretics, liars and false teachers and identify false churches ...like Roman Catholicism.

9. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told His disciples to write anything down. You can’t. (Mat 10:1-15)

And please tell me why you only refer to the gospels? Jesus spoke His last words in the book of Revelation. He clearly told John to write down all that he saw and heard.

10. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus told His disciples to spread the Faith by publishing a book. You can’t.

What a silly argument. God has decreed that the gospel of Christ shall go to all the world by the preaching of the gospel. How beautiful are the feet of those who PUBLISH glad tidings. Romans 10

11. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible comprises 100% of the Faith. You can’t. (Joh 20:30-31; Joh 21:25; Joh 16:12-15)

Well the foundation of the church is built upon the prophets (OT) and the Apostles (NT). If you add to that foundation you add to God's Word. See the last chapter of the Bible. No one is to add to God's Word.

12. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “except for you Protestants, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained. You can’t. (Joh 20:21-23; 2Co 5:18 )

Jesus alone has authority to forgive sins. The sins in the Scriptures you are referring to has to do with church discipline. Read Hebrews. The whole book teaches that our High Priest is Jesus ALONE. He alone has the power to forgive sins. "If any one is willing to confess their sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." 1John1:9

13. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “This is My Body; This is My Blood. Except for you Protestants, do this in remembrance of Me”. You can’t. (Luk 22:19-20 1Co 11:24-25)

Jesus held up a piece of bread and said, "THIS IS MY BODY". Clearly Jesus wasn't referring to His physical body which was sitting in one piece. Clearly Jesus was simply saying that the broken bread represented His broken body.

14, Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Truly, Truly except for you Protestants, unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you.”. You can’t. (Joh 6:47-58 )

You clearly reveal a failure to properly interpret the Scripture. Sometimes Jesus used figurative language....like in John 6.

15. Show me please, where in the Gospels the Blessed Mother of God states “All the world, except for Protestants, shall call me blessed.”. You can’t. (Luk 1:48 )

We do call her blessed...but not Co-Redemptress.

16. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that “Everything that Jesus did is contained in the Bible.”. You can’t. (Joh 21:25)

The Scripture you quote is clear. Not everything Jesus did is in the Bible. What's your point?

17. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states "So faith comes from what is read, and what is read comes by the preaching of Christ. But I ask, have they not read? Indeed they have; for "The Bible has gone out to all the earth, and the Bible to the ends of the world." You can’t. (Rom 10:17-18 )

Again, a silly argument. Faith by hearing "the Word of God"..not the teachings of men. The Bible is called the Word of God.

18. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told anyone not to keep the commandments, as all one has to do is state ‘I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior’, and he is forever ‘saved’ and free to sin boldly. You can’t. (Mat 19:16-19)

Romans 10:13 "For the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

19. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that, except for Protestants, good works are necessary. You can’t. (Mat 7:21, Jam 3:14-26, Phi 2:12-13, Rev 3:15-16, Joh 15:1-2, 1CO 3:9; 2Co 5:10; Mat 25:31-46; et al) (Refer to Note 1 below).

Good works are necessary as they reveal a changed heart. But good works do not save us. "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10

20. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Jesus will leave the Church alone as orphans for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise, delete seven books of the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Joh 14:18 )

He didn't leave us alone. That's the whole point. He said He would send us the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the true Vicar of Christ on the earth. That the Pope calls himself the Vicar of Christ is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

21. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the gates of Hell will prevail against the Church for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise and delete seven books from the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Mat 16:18 )

In Revelation 13 where we're told a false prophet would arise and make an image to the beast. When pagan imperial Rome fell in 476 A.D., the Bishop of Rome made an image to pagan Rome and established Papal Rome or what is better described as the Holy Roman Empire.

“If you believe what you like in the Gospel and r4eject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” St. Augustine.

The Gospel is found in 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures."

[CaryC]

Hey,

I'm not getting in this debate, but did want to point out to Capt Midnight his statement:

Christians Worshiped Christ for about 300 years before there even started to be a complied Bible,

Is quite incorrect. The New Testament was known to those alive around 100 AD as the 22 plus 5 (those 27 books are the same ones we have today). And by 150 AD most larger cities who had communities of Christians had a copy of these 22 and 5.

Iraneous of Lyon France, 150 circa, quoted quite frequently from these 22 and 5, which is evident in his writings and homilies. Many of those times were prolific writers, and are available today. Hippoletus (sp?) circa 175 AD in his "Essay on Anti-Christ" quotes/references from Revelation and Daniel.

What ever any one may believe about the Bible is not what I'm disputing, but rather simply the timeline of the ....compilation. The evidence that I have presented is a part of historical fact, and is quite undisputed, however that does not mean you have to believe it.

["Capt. Midnight"]

Some writings were coming together about that time. Yes. Some will say 100, some will say about 150 years AD. The New Testament as we know it today was not, as we know it today. I am not disputing what you said, I probably was too simplistic, but were both beating the same nail.

Even if we say, for fun, they had a complete, agreed upon NT at 100AD. They had to Worship something, and they did. Christ. Christ taught and gave instructions. So much so, that at different times, people thought it smart to write stuff down. As such, there was another push once it became real clear that the life expectancy of an Apostle wasn't very long, so they pushed them to write their Witness to what they saw that day, their New Testament, of Faith.

So, STILL saying 100AD, much of the books you, and I, hold dear, were written by St.Paul, who scurried around the known World teaching, instructing, and correcting, he didn't just tell them to read the manual. He TAUGHT them.

I don't Worship a Bible, I Worship Christ. We are not people of the book, muslims are.

I can't be bothered to wade into that mess up there made by BB. Are you just making jokes? I like jokes, I've a big sense of humor, but I'm hoping your just pulling Cub's short hairs with some of that stuff, you've said stuff in there that even secular, agnostic historians will tell you you're just 100% wrong, but that's all.

I'm also not prepared to question anyone's Salvation, and I pray everyday at 3pm for the same, for us all.

There's a big difference, in proclaiming the Holy Bible, as Infallible, Inspired works of God, to the thought killing cliche' known as sola scriptura. I don't need to cite chapters an Verses, the fruits are on display for us all to see, and the destruction increases at a frightening pace, right before our eyes.

The rest of that stuff you said is so reductive, child like in logic, and otherwise wrong without regard to whatever Verse you seem to think applies to whatever, I will just leave it lay right there, no insult otherwise intended.

I believe otherwise we all Love God, and he Loves us.

Amen!

[Rustic Rose]

Cub, you really do not know much about Protestants. My first reaction to what you wrote was, "WOW! what are you so angry about?"

BB, thanks for your excellent response to Cub.

[BB]

I can't be bothered to wade into that mess up there made by BB. Are you just making jokes? I like jokes, I've a big sense of humor, but I'm hoping your just pulling Cub's short hairs with some of that stuff, you've said stuff in there that even secular, agnostic historians will tell you you're just 100% wrong, but that's all.

Actually I thought the points that were made were simplistic and silly and I responded in kind although my comments were meant to have merit. Maybe you could point out where I'm a 100% wrong so we can talk about it. Cub's post was simply an attack on Protestants plain and simple.

The rest of that stuff you said is so reductive, child like in logic, and otherwise wrong without regard to whatever Verse you seem to think applies to whatever, I will just leave it lay right there, no insult otherwise intended.

Yes, a few of my responses were simplistic because of the simplistic attack. But again if you can point out where I was wrong, please do so. Simply saying I was wrong without saying why is pretty easy to do. Requires little effort and sounds good. I'll stand by my remarks.


Thanks Rustic Rose for your post. That's a confirmation.

[jazzy]

15. Show me please, where in the Gospels the Blessed Mother of God states “All the world, except for Protestants, shall call me blessed.”. You can’t. (Luk 1:48 )

dear cub, show me where in the Gospels or anywhere in scripture, we are instructed to bow down to her, pray to her, make statues of her, devote our hearts and lives to her and seek her out for help in getting to heaven. its not there. it was created by the church, totally made up for its own purpose. all the title, all the appellations and reasons to honor and pray to her are made up by man. so your point is invalid.

you seem to want us to believe that following the man made traditions created by the church that have added despite teachings in scripture is far more correct for christians than following the plain, simple words of Christ and teachings of the apostles. i can no longer do that, it is spiritually dishonest to me.

when the established church starts deviating from scripture and making things up, it proves it is no longer worthy of being trusted, and yes, it is then better to follow scripture alone as ones guide in how to think, act and worship the living God.

you seem to want us to accept that no matter how many times thru the centuries the church has done wrong, or done evil, or had evil minded leaders that persecuted, killed, and manipulated the people for its own gain, that it is STILL the one and only pure vessel of Christ. we are just supposed to forget about all that unpleasantness and let others think for us and tell us what God wants instead of going to God ourselves to find out.

im sorry, but i cannot find in the teachings of Christ evidence that Christ supports this premise.

the church may think it is the Only church, it might believe it is, but its actions prove different. actions speak louder than words.

luther was not a pure vessel by any means, but he was protesting the excesses and corruptions of the church that had built up over the centuries. it was overdue. the church, had it policed itself, kicked out the corrupt and returned to the actual teachings of the Lord, could have avoided the split.

so when a difference arises between a churchs actions and the words of Christ, ill take the words of Christ in scripture. i will continue to compare the teachings of Christ to the teachings of any organization that claims to be a christian church and represent him and avoid any and all who 'change' things.

scripture alone is good enough. its not 'worshipping' a book, its going to the source for Gods truth.

BB, i thought your responses were very good. well thought out and solid.

[The Lowest Room]

All Protestants claim to believe in Holy Scripture. Additionally, Protestants claim that the notion of Scripture alone not only exists, but is sound doctrine. If these claims are true, then surely the following Protestant beliefs would be readily available within Holy Scripture. Accordingly, I ask you the following questions:


1. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase “Scripture Alone”. You can’t as it is a Protestant fabrication originating with the apostate, Martin Luther.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

2. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t as it is another Protestant fabrication originating with Martin Luther, when he added the word ‘alone’ to Rom 3:28, and bragged about doing so.

You are correct, the statement is not found in scripture, it is a by-product of corruption by liars and corrupt teachers. As to its origin, nay, Martin Luther is NOT its originator. MARCION is its originator!!! As to THE LIE you have placed and continue to place in your questions, "Holy" scripture, that LIE was struck on the cover of the book by YOUR leaders of...<sic>...."orthodoxy". Scripture is papyri/paper/reeds/tablets/stones/animal skins with etching from THORNS/ pens/ reeds/ink. Their is nothing "Holy" about 'scripture, nor is their anything "Holy" about the vault scipture is kept in (bible version). ONLY GOD IS HOLY, the "Holy One"!!!

3. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture that the father of Protestantism (Martin Luther), and indeed contemporary Protestants, have the right to delete seven canonical books of the Bible. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

Anyone has the right to pluck out their eye, cut off their arm, cut off their leg to enter the kingdom "maimed" rather then hell "whole" as commanded by the Lord (Mt.5:29-30). As the word of God in whole is a type and shadow of Christs body, "cutting off" that engrafted in that is "evil", is a right held by all men equally. Their is no leader of either the labels you wont to throw around (protestantism/"orthodoxy") that have authority over any man in this matter. The books you are alluding to claiming "canonical" were chosen by the authority of men you choose to be yoked under, and traditions that make void the word of God. BARE YOUR OWN YOKE, serve your own masters, as for those that are Christs, they will serve the Lord!!!

4. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that except for Protestants, no one is to add to or subtract from God’s word. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

vain repetitions!

5. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Protestants were given the right to establish ‘churches’ in addition to, and opposition to, the true Church established by Jesus Christ. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17))

God the Holy One, is going to found his church upon an unbelieving (Jn 13:9), faithless (Mt.14:31),unconverted (Lk 22:32) canaanite (Mt 10:4, Mk 3:1 who denied him (Mt 26:34, Mt.10:33), wicked (Mt.26:51-52), betrayer (Jn.21:17), and corruptor of the church (Jn 21:1, the BEAR of the BEAST of Revelation ch.13 (Acts 15:10, 12:7, Rev.13:2, Gal.1:18, Dan.11:27) a ringleader in the greatest APOSTASIA known to man??? (Acts 15, Gal. 1:1, who served and followed the ANGEL OF SATAN AND HIS ANTICHRIST(Gal.1:18, Acts 12:7, 2 Cor.12:7, Dan 7:8 and dozens more)??????. To have the gall to seduce via your sorceries of "orthodoxy" that the son of Jonas replaced the son of God as THE ROCK (Psa 95:1) and STONE (Dan 2:34)????? THOU ART DRUNK with the "double" God has ordained you (Rev.18:16). Walk in the light of it thereof (Isa.50:11, Hab.2:16).

6. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible is the ‘pillar and bulwark of truth’. You can’t. (1Ti 3:15)

This one doesnt deserve the time of day!

7. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus established a book. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17)

Prov 3:3, 7:3, Isa 10:19, 30:8, Jer.31:33, Lk 10;20, Rev.20:12 to name a few!

8. Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Thou art Peter, the rock, and upon this rock I will write my Bible”. You can’t. (Mat 16:1

Why dost thou tempt the Lord God???

9. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told His disciples to write anything down. You can’t. (Mat 10:1-15)

Lk 22:36, Hab 2:2!!!

10. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus told His disciples to spread the Faith by publishing a book. You can’t.

Mk 5:20, Deut.32:3, Jer 4:5, 4:16, 5:20, Psa 26:7 and on and on!!!!!

11. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible comprises 100% of the Faith. You can’t. (Joh 20:30-31; Joh 21:25; Joh 16:12-15)

Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 2:7, 1 Pet 1:23-25, Rev 1:2!!!!!!!!!!!

12. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “except for you Protestants, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained. You can’t. (Joh 20:21-23; 2Co 5:18 )

Your house and its heads CANT FORGIVE A HOUSEFLY!!! (Jer 31:30, Psa 94:23, Ezek 18:4). Neither has it any authority to do ANYTHING (Lk 20:8, Pr.29:2)

13. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “This is My Body; This is My Blood. Except for you Protestants, do this in remembrance of Me”. You can’t. (Luk 22:19-20 1Co 11:24-25)

Why accusest thou when thou ART GUILTY???? (Jn 6:53)

14, Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Truly, Truly except for you Protestants, unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you.”. You can’t. (Joh 6:47-58 )

Mk 7:8-9....whenever the saints partake of the word, THEY ARE EATING HIS FLESH AND DRINKING HIS BLOOD!!!! But YOUR father sayeth otherwise (Jn 8:3

15. Show me please, where in the Gospels the Blessed Mother of God states “All the world, except for Protestants, shall call me blessed.”. You can’t. (Luk 1:48 )

WRONG MOTHER!!! (Mt 12:48-50, Jn 2:4) THY BLASPHEMIES BEWRAYETH THY SPEECH (Rev.13:6)

16. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that “Everything that Jesus did is contained in the Bible.”. You can’t. (Joh 21:25)

An insult to the intelligence!

17. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states "So faith comes from what is read, and what is read comes by the preaching of Christ. But I ask, have they not read? Indeed they have; for "The Bible has gone out to all the earth, and the Bible to the ends of the world." You can’t. (Rom 10:17-18 )

Isa 52:10, 1 Cor.10:11

18. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told anyone not to keep the commandments, as all one has to do is state ‘I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior’, and he is forever ‘saved’ and free to sin boldly. You can’t. (Mat 19:16-19)

This one I shall AGREE on with you!!!

19. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that, except for Protestants, good works are necessary. You can’t. (Mat 7:21, Jam 3:14-26, Phi 2:12-13, Rev 3:15-16, Joh 15:1-2, 1CO 3:9; 2Co 5:10; Mat 25:31-46; et al) (Refer to Note 1 below).

This one I AGREE with you in part!. However, what ye of the supposed 'orthodoxy' deem as "good works" and the good works indicated by Christ and others in scrip, ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ALTOGETHER. Thats not a wonder for THE DEVIL uses the word of God to destroy the Lords children as well (Gen 3:1, Mk 8:15)!!!

20. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Jesus will leave the Church alone as orphans for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise, delete seven books of the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Joh 14:18 )

Lk 22:22, Mt 9:15....as to your other accusations, those not of your house HAVE BEEN MANY during those 1500 years. Luther was not their father and they themselves rejected your poison scrolls of abominations! I am pretty much assured now that you are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of your own history, of the bible, of how the canon came to be, of the wickedness of your own house!

21. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the gates of Hell will prevail against the Church for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise and delete seven books from the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Mat 16:18 )

Rev.ch.13, Mt.24:39......you like to accuse the rejecting of your apocryphal latin scrips, but refuse to acknowledge your own scrip rejecting and enumerations by lot. HYPOCRITE!!!!. Your "fathers" of your house were INFIDELS AND BASTARD SONS, heretics of the highest degree, ROBBERS, MURDERERS, ANTICHRISTS who raped, pillaged, burned, usurped, butchered the Lords words and his heritage and claimed it all under his authority. Your fathers MUTILATED the Lords garment parted by 4 lots/gospels, placed therein AN ABOMINATION overshadowing the Christ, and have not rested day nor night till that time to make proselytes two-fold the child of hell more then your selves!!! But thou knowest this already thyself (Rev.12:12)

“If you believe what you like in the Gospel and r4eject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” St. Augustine.

Rev.14:6!!!!

Note 1:

Protestants proclaim that all one has to do to be forever justified is to satisfy John 3:16 by simply stating once during their lifetime something similar to "I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior.".

John 3:16 reads:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (RSV-CE)

The Greek word used in this citation and translated as ‘believes’ is pisteuo. It means to ‘have faith in’ or to ‘believe in’.

Protestants take this verse out of context, and hold that anyone who simply declares that ‘Jesus is my Lord and personal Savior.’ is saved. That is to say, that nothing else is required. All subsequent sins committed by any one making this claim, will not bar them from Heaven.

The Protestant King James Version translates John 3:36 as follows.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Your attention is directed to the two words: ‘believeth’ and ‘believeth’ in the KJV translation of Joh 3:36 above. Two different words are used in the Greek, and the King James Version translates both of them as ‘believeth’. This is incorrect, and is a false translation.

The first word in Joh 3:36 translated by the King James Version as ‘believeth’ is pisteuo. As mentioned above, it is a correct translation i.e. .believeth’ or ‘believes’. However, the second word translated incorrectly as ‘believeth’ is apeitheo. Apeitheo means to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Hence, the citation above from the King James Version is inaccurate and false.

The RSV-CE has the correct translation which reads:

Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. (RSV-CE)

Thus, we see clearly that the Protestant claim that all they have to do is satisfy Joh 3:16 once during their lifetime, and they are forever saved is false and erroneous.

Individual verses of Holy Scripture must be read in context.

Text taken out of context is a pretext.

Now re-read all of the 3rd chapter of John’s gospel, using the correct translation of Joh 3:36 as per the RSV-CE above.

http://jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/


Furthermore, Protestants ignoring the following (which are only a few) does not make them disappear or render them inapplicable:

“So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder.” (Cf. Jas 2:17-19)

The teaching of Jesus could not be any clearer on this requirement. Consider the following from the Gospel of Matthew: "Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Cf. Matt. 19:16-19)

"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." (Cf. Rev 22:12)

The very same one who is the author of this rightly so heresy (Eph.2:15), is the same one you like to appeal to to prove your own abominations. YOU WILL USE LIES AND DECEITS TO AUTHORIZE YOUR OWN WICKEDNESS, proving the one whom ye appeal to is the one who is your "first" father. And rightly so for PETER WAS NEVER A "POPE", LINUS WAS THE FIRST POPE ORDAINED BY THE ANTICHRIST "PAULUS". PETER NEVER LEFT THE REGION, NEVER WENT TO ROME!!! THE FIRST CANON THEIR EVER WAS WAS THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW IN "HEBREW" USED UP TIL AT LEAST 64ad CONTAINING NONE OF THE ABOMINATIONS ENGRAFTED BY THE FATHERS OF YOUR HOUSE THEY LATER PLACED THEREIN!!!!

Yea, certainly I hear from you by your every breath "hath God said?" (Gen 3:1)....

Mt.23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

[The Lowest Room]

I will gladly accept your observations as to how some people get swept up in the Adoration of Mary. I will never tell anyone that Mary is a key to their Salvation. Do however indulge me, I'm also certain that in this world, many times, women and parents, who struggle in poverty, working so hard. Could look to Mary as an example of how a good child can be raised in a world filled with misery and sin. I will also agree with you, that it is rather a bit too much with the weeping statues, all of that.

I will also say, in the vein of going to far, that one of the FIRST slams out of the average Protestant's mouth going after Catholics is right at Mary. While I see no need to Worship Mary, I see the pattern going the other way.

Freind, "lukewarm" is recieved with SPEWING (Rev 3:16) Slamming the woman called Mary first is because she is a byproduct and creation of those BEHIND her reverance, it stands out. To attack "it" first is reactive because of the representation. To attack it first is a response BY GOD through his people who know him to destroy the evil works, idols and idolatry of mens hands and minds. BLAME IT ON GOD!

In my ONE, and ONLY criticism of the Sola concept, AGAIN, I don't dispute with anyone, the Bibles Sacred status, it's inerrant status, or it's being the inspired works of God, through men.

No "bible" is "sacred. No 'bible' is inerrant. Whether its an AV, or a Vulgate, or whatever you want to foist, THEY ARE ALL ERRANT because the men placed in charge with the responsibility of Gods words are ALL ERRANT. However, said errancies do not bound the word of God. THE WORD IS "ALIVE" AND THE WORD IS "SPIRIT" (Jn 6:63). No matter what men do to it on paper, those who have his spirit will detect, determine, judge what is the live from the memorex (job 6:30, 12:11)

My only contention with the concept, is that it diminishes the personal, human contact of love and witness by loving, Holy Spirit filled people. I Worship Christ, his teachings, and his example. I don't Worship this, or any book. Christ didn't write anything, he TAUGHT, he touched, he lived, and he gave everything. When he offered the bread, it was HIS portion for the day. To walk with Christ is to strive to do the same.

Jn 8:6......the ground was THE DUST from which ye are made from. The Lord WRITES upon the tables of human hearts now under the new covenant.

Try as one might, the same impression is really hard to effect from a book, even to a receptive reader, compared to that of loving human interaction. Why is that so hard to agree with?

Jer 2:33 Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways.

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Their is nothing wrong with human interaction, but when said human interaction compromises the necessity of the defining of truth, then itself becomes a cast away. Their is no agreeing to disagree for the sake of relationship and "love" (Amos 3:3) At the very heart of Christs message was the rejection of this precept.

Otherwise, I couldn't care less if anyone were to be led to convert Rome. It is telling that anywhere you go, and discuss this, it can't be done without the Sola crowd throwing turnips on the Catholics. I won't otherwise claim to say that in many peoples minds, Sola IS an assault on Catholicism. It does seem to be on the front line of those explaining the concept, as well as any argument over it. I have no intention to argue over it, the Spirit isn't in it for me. Again, I'm pleading for the Soul reaching out to another, in torment, alone, sick and in prison, I'm sure you've read that. A dusty Bible in that cell might be a comfort, but nothing like someone to talk to.

Im sorry friend, Ill take Gods word over human companionship any day, and that to was one of the premiere messages of Christ. You are saying Gods words are not him or his power wherein God placed his word ABOVE EVERYTHING (Psa 138:2) For us, it determines heaven or hell! (Jn 12:4

I also wish all of those evil crimes by those claiming to do so in Christs name never would've happened. The history of mankind is filled with the fruits of original sin. We as such love the darkness, without his Grace, we continue to walk towards it. All due to our sinful nature. While all of these crimes you say are historical fact, these were EVERY bit as well, the sins and crimes of MEN, not the Church Christ began.

Nay friend, their is no "original sin", that is rejected by Jesus himself. The spirit of MAMMON COLLECTIVE is where sin lies. Sin is in the world, your not born with it (Eccl.7:29, 1 Jn 4:4)

You also forgot to give mention to the countless Saints who died willingly espousing the same values. Someone working with a bias only filters out or in what the bias is working for, so, even with Bible studies, it is good and proper to seek fellow Christians for sharing and comparing our perceptions of the Holy Writ, I'm sure you'd allow for that? even the occasional Sunday School?

is not this forum a "church" in effect???(Mt 18:20)

Point me then, in the direction of the Congregation that isn't filled with sinners, that too, is where I'd like to go.

The very word 'sinners' means and is applied to in context, the continueing practice of sin. Sin simply is and means transgression of the law. So then, if you want to find such a place, then seek one that does not hold to PAULINISM!!!. PAUL IS THE AUTHOR of the transgressing of the law thats written in bibles, aided and abetted by Peter, and finally affirmed by James and the elders at the council of Jerusalem!!!! You will have to reject MANY of both catholic and protestant alike!

The gate has always been narrow, and the Bible can inspire, but to SEE, to WITNESS someone living a life going against the tides, shedding off temporal comforts, wealth, things of the earth, filled with the Love and Grace of the Holy Spirit, that is the Christ like example I'd like to follow. Show me where there's more people living the great Commission, because I for one can't get close enough, often enough, to the Holy Spirit.

Great Commision???? The concept in its continuance today is but another vile lie and yoke to keep the sheep under the yokes of their corporate hirelings serving MONEY!.

I'm certain some can be swayed by reading a book, but to see and touch and be around that is where most will be drawn to. God must know the same, he became as Flesh, and did it for us, gave us a living example of what he wishes for us. He didn't just send the manual. He already tried that.

Doscetism!!! God did NOT become "as" flesh!. He is NOT in the "likeness" of flesh!!!. Jesus Christ has come IN the flesh, fully man, fully God!!!! You do NOT have or know God if you have a TRINITY or a VIRGIN BIRTH, both of these concepts utterly betray who and what God in fact is. GOD IS A SPIRIT (Jn 4:24)

Perhaps what we're witnessing, are countless mini reformations? did you ever think of that? when someone feels that first presence of the Holy Spirit come down, when they REALLY know, REALLY FEEL Christ come into their heart, and that all powerful love inside of them, they want to keep that, to grow closer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. It may just be that they get a taste of some of the Churches, and they don't know HOW to say whats missing, but they know that the Spirit that filled them isn't in there, and they keep looking for it. Perhaps all too many Christians might not be able to throw Scriptures around as poison darts, to tear down, to destroy, but satan does, and thats ALL he does.

Jn 6:63!!!!!. Umm, if you had someTHING come INto you from WITHOUT that was not written on a page my friend, THAT IS A DAIMON!!!!. YOU NEED DELIVERANCE!

Sometimes it's better to love, than to be right. Even if Rome sucks, I still say, your hanging WAY too much on that one peg.

Jn 21:15 ¶ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Lu 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

[FaithfulServant]

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Do You Believe in Scripture And in Scripture Alone?

All Protestants claim to believe in Holy Scripture. Additionally, Protestants claim that the notion of Scripture alone not only exists, but is sound doctrine. If these claims are true, then surely the following Protestant beliefs would be readily available within Holy Scripture. Accordingly, I ask you the following questions:


1. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase “Scripture Alone”. You can’t as it is a Protestant fabrication originating with the apostate, Martin Luther.

2. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture one can find the phrase ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t as it is another Protestant fabrication originating with Martin Luther, when he added the word ‘alone’ to Rom 3:28, and bragged about doing so.

3. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture that the father of Protestantism (Martin Luther), and indeed contemporary Protestants, have the right to delete seven canonical books of the Bible. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

4. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that except for Protestants, no one is to add to or subtract from God’s word. You can’t. (Deu 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; Gal. 1:8; Pet 3:15-16; Rev. 22: 18-19)

5. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Protestants were given the right to establish ‘churches’ in addition to, and opposition to, the true Church established by Jesus Christ. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17))

6. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible is the ‘pillar and bulwark of truth’. You can’t. (1Ti 3:15)

7. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus established a book. You can’t. (Mat 16:18; Mat 18:17)

8. Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Thou art Peter, the rock, and upon this rock I will write my Bible”. You can’t. (Mat 16:1

9. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told His disciples to write anything down. You can’t. (Mat 10:1-15)

10. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture Jesus told His disciples to spread the Faith by publishing a book. You can’t.

11. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Bible comprises 100% of the Faith. You can’t. (Joh 20:30-31; Joh 21:25; Joh 16:12-15)

12. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “except for you Protestants, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained. You can’t. (Joh 20:21-23; 2Co 5:18 )

13. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, Jesus told His disciples “This is My Body; This is My Blood. Except for you Protestants, do this in remembrance of Me”. You can’t. (Luk 22:19-20 1Co 11:24-25)

14, Show me please, where in the Gospels, Jesus stated “Truly, Truly except for you Protestants, unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you.”. You can’t. (Joh 6:47-58 )

15. Show me please, where in the Gospels the Blessed Mother of God states “All the world, except for Protestants, shall call me blessed.”. You can’t. (Luk 1:48 )

16. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states that “Everything that Jesus did is contained in the Bible.”. You can’t. (Joh 21:25)

17. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture, it states "So faith comes from what is read, and what is read comes by the preaching of Christ. But I ask, have they not read? Indeed they have; for "The Bible has gone out to all the earth, and the Bible to the ends of the world." You can’t. (Rom 10:17-18 )

18. Show me please, where in the Gospels Jesus told anyone not to keep the commandments, as all one has to do is state ‘I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior’, and he is forever ‘saved’ and free to sin boldly. You can’t. (Mat 19:16-19)

19. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that, except for Protestants, good works are necessary. You can’t. (Mat 7:21, Jam 3:14-26, Phi 2:12-13, Rev 3:15-16, Joh 15:1-2, 1CO 3:9; 2Co 5:10; Mat 25:31-46; et al) (Refer to Note 1 below).

20. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the Jesus will leave the Church alone as orphans for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise, delete seven books of the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Joh 14:18 )

21. Show me please, where in Holy Scripture it states that the gates of Hell will prevail against the Church for about 1,500 years until the Protestants arise and delete seven books from the Bible, and proclaim ‘Scripture Alone’ and ‘Faith Alone’. You can’t. (Mat 16:18 )


“If you believe what you like in the Gospel and r4eject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” St. Augustine.


Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?
www.call2holiness.org/ScriptureAlone/ScriptureAlone.htm

Both Faith and Good Works Required
www.call2holiness.org/faith.html



Note 1:

Protestants proclaim that all one has to do to be forever justified is to satisfy John 3:16 by simply stating once during their lifetime something similar to "I accept Jesus as my Lord and personal Savior.".

John 3:16 reads:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (RSV-CE)

The Greek word used in this citation and translated as ‘believes’ is pisteuo. It means to ‘have faith in’ or to ‘believe in’.

Protestants take this verse out of context, and hold that anyone who simply declares that ‘Jesus is my Lord and personal Savior.’ is saved. That is to say, that nothing else is required. All subsequent sins committed by any one making this claim, will not bar them from Heaven.

The Protestant King James Version translates John 3:36 as follows.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Your attention is directed to the two words: ‘believeth’ and ‘believeth’ in the KJV translation of Joh 3:36 above. Two different words are used in the Greek, and the King James Version translates both of them as ‘believeth’. This is incorrect, and is a false translation.

The first word in Joh 3:36 translated by the King James Version as ‘believeth’ is pisteuo. As mentioned above, it is a correct translation i.e. .believeth’ or ‘believes’. However, the second word translated incorrectly as ‘believeth’ is apeitheo. Apeitheo means to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Hence, the citation above from the King James Version is inaccurate and false.

The RSV-CE has the correct translation which reads:

Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him. (RSV-CE)

Thus, we see clearly that the Protestant claim that all they have to do is satisfy Joh 3:16 once during their lifetime, and they are forever saved is false and erroneous.

Individual verses of Holy Scripture must be read in context.

Text taken out of context is a pretext.

Now re-read all of the 3rd chapter of John’s gospel, using the correct translation of Joh 3:36 as per the RSV-CE above.

http://jmom.honlam.org/rsvce/


Furthermore, Protestants ignoring the following (which are only a few) does not make them disappear or render them inapplicable:

“So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have works.' Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder.” (Cf. Jas 2:17-19)

The teaching of Jesus could not be any clearer on this requirement. Consider the following from the Gospel of Matthew: "Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Cf. Matt. 19:16-19)

"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." (Cf. Rev 22:12)

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You used so many fonts, sizes, and colors no one could possibly answer your questions directly.