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Thread: Do You See the Snake or the Elephant?

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Do You See the Snake or the Elephant?

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    Are You Looking at the Snake Or the Elephant?



    Indeed, Jesus Christ started the Roman Catholic Church. He built it upon the Apostles. As a body on earth, He gave charge of His Church to St. Peter. He changed his name from Simon to Peter (which means 'rock'), and built His Catholic Church upon St. Peter.

    "He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church [n.b. one singular church], and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind ON EARTH shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose ON EARTH shall be loosed in heaven." (Cf. Matthew 16:15-19).

    St. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, and the first Pope. His successors for 2,000 years have each been the bishops of Rome and the Pope, the head of the universal Church.

    Now, Protestants believe that their KJV represents 100% of the faith. It is apparent that Jesus did not emphasize the WRITTEN WORD while on earth. As a matter of fact, there is neither any evidence of Jesus picking up a pencil, pen or stylus, nor any evidence of Him telling His disciples to write anything down. Truly the Holy Spirit did later. My point is that the Faith for most of the last 2,000 years has been handed down ORALLY. Jesus traveled about preaching ORALLY. If He had wanted to emphasize that 100% of the Faith rested in the WRITTEN WORD, He would have sat down on day one and written the Bible Himself. At a minimum He would have directed the disciples to write things down. Further if He intended the WRITTEN WORD to represent 100% of the Faith, He would have seen that word processors, fax machines and photocopiers would have been invented and readily available during His public ministry, and He would have told His disciples to fax the Bible to all nations. Instead what He told them was:

    "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." (Mat 28:19-20).

    Indeed the Apostles wrote things down i.e. the books of the New Testament, but they primarily taught by preaching the gospel ORALLY.

    The Bible was not compiled as such until the end of the 4th century, and the general public was largely illiterate until the 20th century. Clearly, the ORAL WORD was the primary source of faith for many years. Indeed there was writing during such time, but the faith was generally being handed down ORALLY. We have evidence of this historical ORAL preaching in the writings of the Church Fathers and Doctors. Now, this handing down of the Faith ORALLY and reflected in the writings of the Fathers and Doctors is called Catholic Tradition. Traditio in Latin means "to hand down".

    Imagine the value of studying the writings of St. Polycarp and Papias who were taught directly by St. John! They were EYEWITNESSES.

    Now, the Catholic Church wrote the Holy Bible. Further, the Holy Bible is incomplete. How do we know this? Because Holy Scripture itself tells us so. Consider the following:

    "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name." (Cf. John 20:30-31)

    "There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written." (Cf. John 21:25).

    "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you." (Cf. John 16:12-15)

    So, where is the rest of the Deposit of Faith if Holy Scripture is incomplete? The answer is in Catholic Tradition and in the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church under the Pope (you will recall that He told St. Peter, "whatever you bind ON EARTH shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose ON EARTH shall be loosed in heaven.").

    Therefore to reiterate the Deposit of Faith is comprised of the following: Catholic Tradition, Holy Scripture, and the Teachings of the Magisterium of the Church under the Pope.

    Protestants do not recognize all of Holy Scripture. They have taken out 7 books called the deuterocanonicals. They have done this in spite of the fact that Holy Scripture says not to do so.

    Now, the reason you see Catholics getting annoyed with the charges of Protestants against the Roman Catholic Faith, is largely due to fact that they attack the complete Deposit of Faith using only Holy Scripture (and only a fraction of that). Furthermore, many treat their KJV as their security blanket. They are governed by their feelings. They believe that if something makes them feel good then it is from the Holy Spirit; if it makes them feel uncomfortable then it is from the Evil One. Many verses in Holy Scripture (like those cited above) make them feel uncomfortable, so they deal with it by ignoring such verses, or twisting their meaning in such a way that they are comfortable once again. They do this in spite of the following:

    "This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim 2:3-4)

    Consider the following story which I submit to illustrate their conclusions about the Faith based upon using only their KJV:

    "Once upon a time, there was a man who was born blind. He spent all of his life in darkness. One day, his friend offered to take him to the zoo to introduce him to God's creatures, which the blind man had never encountered before. The blind man was very excited about this opportunity.

    The day for their adventure arrived, and his friend picked up the blind man and took him to the zoo. They proceeded from animal to animal, and the blind man was bursting with excitement.

    When they came to the elephant, the blind man seized the elephant's tail, and after having run his hand up and down his tail exclaimed, "Oh, I see, elephants are a lot like snakes!"


    Now, the invalid conclusion reached by the blind man in the story above was due to his misfortunate handicap. Please understand that Catholics do not have any problem with Protestants believing in their KJV. The problem is that they have their eyes closed with only the tail in their hand, and are criticizing us and we have our eyes open to the whole elephant.

    Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?
    www.call2holiness.org/era-of-peace.html

    How we know Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church:
    www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/how.htm


    The names of the men who founded the Protestant Ecclesial Communities:
    http://www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/found.htm





    "Unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain who build it."

    Psalms 127:1





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    "At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time." (Dn 12:1)

    www.call2holiness.org/iniquity.htm

  2. #2
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    Wow, you need to go back and read the Bible. Where you coming up with this crap? You better think twice before making such claims, as based on Scripture.

    "SOLA SCRIPTURA", to be frank with you.

    You need a bit of an education, and it is ONLY in the BIBLE.

    Period.

    Ever read "Revalations"? You know, the last part, and about "Adding to or taking away from the Word"? You might want to think about it. I've NEVER found the word "catholic"/"universal" in my Bible, unless using a lexicon-

    And you may NOT want to know what the comparisons are.

    I've read my Bible, and I KNOW what "rome" is.


  3. #3
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    I'm not sure why you think that posting articles that basically say: "We're right and you're wrong! Nyah!" is going to solve anything. You're just angering people--and for good reason.

    The Gospel is supposed to be shared in love, not while sticking your tongue out at those you're addressing.
    "Cats are so vile the Bible does not so much as mention them."

    --Natty Threads



    "I have come to the conclusion that people are strange."

    --Firedance




  4. #4
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    He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
    And then the catholic church immediately began the worship of "Mary"?!?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsPaulRevere View Post
    And then the catholic church immediately began the worship of "Mary"?!?

    Prove it.


    .
    "At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time." (Dn 12:1)

    www.call2holiness.org/iniquity.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cub View Post
    Prove it.


    .
    Here they come again...
    Pride Always Has A Better Idea.

    And it's not your job to mold me to your likeness!
    _______________________________________________

    Mat 22:37-40 (msg) Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'

    This is the most important, the first on any list.

    But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'

    These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daytonabill0001 View Post
    Here they come again...

    It doesn't take much to make cheap shoot-from-the-hip unsupported assertions.

    If what you say is true, then you should be able to prove it. Don't attempt to divert attention.

    Surely, this is not asking too much of a Protestant. We Catholics do it all the time.

    So, let's see you prove what you have stated.
    "At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time." (Dn 12:1)

    www.call2holiness.org/iniquity.htm

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cub View Post
    It doesn't take much to make cheap shoot-from-the-hip unsupported assertions.

    If what you say is true, then you should be able to prove it. Don't attempt to divert attention.

    Surely, this is not asking too much of a Protestant. We Catholics do it all the time.

    So, let's see you prove what you have stated.
    Cub, out of my love for you, I'm only going to say this once and I pray that you won't become offended (it's real easy, which i have learned recently)...

    I haven't stated anything other than 'here they come again...', now here is what I have to say...

    "It's easy to see a smudge on your neighbor's face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, 'Let me wash your face for you,' when your own face is distorted by contempt? It's this I-know-better-than-you mentality again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your own part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbor. "You don't get wormy apples off a healthy tree, nor good apples off a diseased tree. The health of the apple tells the health of the tree. You must begin with your own life-giving lives. It's who you are, not what you say and do, that counts. Your true being brims over into true words and deeds.
    (Luk 6:41-45 MSG)

    Now after saying all of that, let all of us examine and judge our own selves, so that we might be found walking in the Lord's ways and be found in Him...

    Don't you think that it is better to come together and serve Him, after all;

    Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help. Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience. What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It's God we are answerable to--all the way from life to death and everything in between--not each other. That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other. So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly--or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit.
    (Rom 14:4-10 MSG)

    So I would respectfully ask you to reconsider the intent of this thread and let us serve the Lord Jesus according to our own convictions. Again, if the Lord Jesus sees fit to chasten us, we need to examine and judge our own hearts and intents for purity of spirit and love, ask for forgiveness and get up and start running the course set before us...

    Blessings be upon you...
    Pride Always Has A Better Idea.

    And it's not your job to mold me to your likeness!
    _______________________________________________

    Mat 22:37-40 (msg) Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'

    This is the most important, the first on any list.

    But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'

    These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."

  9. #9
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    .


    .
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Cub
    Prove it.


    .

    Here they come again...



    I haven't stated anything other than 'here they come again...', now here is what I have to say...
    You are correct in that I goofed with the names.....It was MsPaulRevere who made the statement originally. And for that, I apologize.

    Now, what exactly does "Here they come again." mean or connote if not an implicit disagreement with my post where I simply asked MsPaulRevere to "Prove it.".

    My statement to MsPaulRevere and to you is "Prove it.".

    .
    "At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time." (Dn 12:1)

    www.call2holiness.org/iniquity.htm

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cub View Post
    .




    You are correct in that I goofed with the names.....It was MsPaulRevere who made the statement originally. And for that, I apologize.
    It's okay.

    Now, what exactly does "Here they come again." mean or connote if not an implicit disagreement with my post where I simply asked MsPaulRevere to "Prove it.".

    My statement to MsPaulRevere and to you is "Prove it.".
    It means simply that the ones with the intent to cause fights are amongst us again. I grow weary of this. Does my last post mean anything to you at all? I had believed that you would at least pay me the respect I afforded you in my fairly worded response to you.

    I have nothing to prove to you and shall not engage in unedifying conversations with you... May the peace that comes from Jesus be on you...
    .
    Pride Always Has A Better Idea.

    And it's not your job to mold me to your likeness!
    _______________________________________________

    Mat 22:37-40 (msg) Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'

    This is the most important, the first on any list.

    But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'

    These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."

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