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Thread: Do You See the Snake or the Elephant?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2011
    3rd Rock


    Quote Originally Posted by Daytonabill0001 View Post
    Cub, out of my love for you, I'm only going to say this once and I pray that you won't become offended (it's real easy, which i have learned recently)...

    I haven't stated anything other than 'here they come again...', now here is what I have to say...

    "It's easy to see a smudge on your neighbor's face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, 'Let me wash your face for you,' when your own face is distorted by contempt? It's this I-know-better-than-you mentality again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your own part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbor. "You don't get wormy apples off a healthy tree, nor good apples off a diseased tree. The health of the apple tells the health of the tree. You must begin with your own life-giving lives. It's who you are, not what you say and do, that counts. Your true being brims over into true words and deeds.
    (Luk 6:41-45 MSG)

    Now after saying all of that, let all of us examine and judge our own selves, so that we might be found walking in the Lord's ways and be found in Him...

    Don't you think that it is better to come together and serve Him, after all;

    Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help. Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience. What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It's God we are answerable to--all the way from life to death and everything in between--not each other. That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other. So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly--or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit.
    (Rom 14:4-10 MSG)

    So I would respectfully ask you to reconsider the intent of this thread and let us serve the Lord Jesus according to our own convictions. Again, if the Lord Jesus sees fit to chasten us, we need to examine and judge our own hearts and intents for purity of spirit and love, ask for forgiveness and get up and start running the course set before us...

    Blessings be upon you...
    Well said Sir, thank you.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007


    Don't you think that it is better to come together and serve Him, after all;

    Yes, I do. That is the point. Come together under the one true Apostolic Church that He founded. That was His intent. What reasonable and prudent man would believe that Jesus intended for 40,000+ “churches” running around in disagreement……or certain of the 40,000+ different “churches” ----coming together only in respect of whatever common ground can be found.

    If you believe that coming together on whatever common ground can be found (if any) is the key to salvation, then good luck.

    It means simply that the ones with the intent to cause fights are amongst us again. I grow weary of this. Does my last post mean anything to you at all? I had believed that you would at least pay me the respect I afforded you in my fairly worded response to you.

    I have nothing to prove to you and shall not engage in unedifying conversations with you... May the peace that comes from Jesus be on you...

    Causing fights? If you were offended by the OP, it is because it challenged your man-made believe system. BTW, I hasten to add that no one is forcing you to visit these threads.

    Where have you been when Catholicism has been raked over the coals by Protestants largely because they only recognize Scripture (and only a portion of that) as opposed to the complete Deposit of Faith? Largely because they believe that they can fabricate things, call it “doctrine”; take Scripture verses out of context and twist their meaning to suit their own purposes”, etc. Did you direct your citation of Romans 14 to them (or yourself)? I hasten to add that Rom 14 does NOT give one license to fabricate his own believe system call it a “church”; nor deny the truths that make you feel uncomfortable.

    The OP was meant to challenge those who believe that they have the freedom to do “whatever feels good”. You bet.

    Did Jesus preach a Gospel that was comfortable in every respect? Did He give license to people to do as they please? Consider the following:

    “So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household.” (Cf. Mat 10:32-36)

    What He is saying is that His teachings were challenging. He fulfilled the covenant with Abraham, and established the new and everlasting covenant. He preached the truth. He taught us to be Baptized, to obey the commandments, and to obey His Church.

    Clearly, that does not give one license to be abrasive.

    Jesus does not care what we think; what makes us feel good. He cares about the truth and obedience to the truth.

    “And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodi-ans, to entrap him in his talk. And they came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are true, and care for no man; for you do not regard the position of men, but truly teach the way of God.” (Cf. Mar 12:13-14)

    You would do well to re-read 1Sam 15, and note what happened to Solomon, when he tried to do it “his way”. Pay particular attention to verse 15.

    The teaching of Jesus could not be any clearer on this requirement. Consider the following from the Gospel of Matthew: "Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?" He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, "'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Cf. Mat. 19:16-19)

    What I am telling you is that I agree that we should remain charitable….however, under no circumstances are we allowed to do whatever feels good personally, as you suggest. Sin is defined as interference with the Will of God. Indeed, the Church teaches that there are sins of omission, as well as commission. We are called to preach the Truth, and will be judged upon our failure to attempt to do so.

    We are not to pass judgment on our neighbors [as to salvation.]. St. Paul tells us to distance ourselves from sinners. Clearly, we are to make certain judgments……but not as to salvation.

    Contrary to your assertions in the citation of Romans 14 from some translation (which I submit has some significant problems), man is not allowed to follow his own conscience in all matters. Refer to Mat 19 above.

    1 As for the man who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not for disputes over opinions. 2 One believes he may eat anything, while the weak man eats only vegetables. 3* Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand. 5* One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7* None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8* If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord; so then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lords. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. 10* Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11* for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise * to God." 12 So each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13* Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean. 15* If your brother is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died. 16* So do not let your good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit; 18 he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19* Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. 20* Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for any one to make others fall by what he eats; 21* it is right not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother stumble. * 22* The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God; happy is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves. 23 But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. * (Cf. Romans 14)

    Now, post #4 in the following thread ignores the truth and calls the Catholic Church the Church of Satan. Is that not inflammatory? You blamed me for trying to pick a fight. My OP is true.

    Post #14 Calls the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon. Where were you then? The thread at the second link below was started in response to make a point.

    In post #8, you arbitrarily stated that Yes, Sola Scriptura is the answer; but did not provide me the courtesy of proving it. What you have done is pose a challenge to what I have written. While is your right to do so, am I to believe that your challenges are acceptable; while mine are not? And further that you do not have to support them?

    In this thread it was stated that Catholics worship Mary. My call for the poster to prove her unsupported assertion provoked your response. How is my call for support for an unsupported erroneous and inflammatory assertion picking a fight?

    Daytonbill, I will accept the “do it with charity” part of your post, but the rest I can’t buy.



    "At that time there shall arise Michael, the great prince, guardian of your people; It shall be a time unsurpassed in distress since nations began until that time." (Dn 12:1)

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Atlanta Georgia

    Exclamation End of subject!

    Let us pick a topic that doesn’t divide the Body of Christ in such a way as this poorly chosen subject.


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