Canning SOup question

[MinnesotaSmith]

How much of a nutrition background do you have? You could start by reading Sally Fallon, and Weston Price. Adelle Davis might be useful too. These authorities are hardly outliers.

Stupid thing to can? You are showing your ignorance in this area. Not to mention pervasive arrogance.

Ignorant on something I claim major knowledge on, rarely if ever.

Re my nutrition knowledge, I've actually published two papers in scientific journals on yeast nutrition (which has a lot in common with humans). I worked at Cargill and General Mills in biotech research (fermentation and emulsifiers, both for food products). I set up, organized, operated, and managed two testing laboratories for fuel ethanol plants that ran on waste human food products. I raised exotic finches, whose nutritional issues due to small size/high metabolic rate in multiple respects are actually harder than for humans or larger mundane domesticated birds such as chickens. I'm most of the way through writing a book on long-distance hiking (having hiked over 3500 miles in the past 6 years), with nutrition being a large part of what it covers (and proper nutrition is much harder to do well on the trail than at home).

I've read Francis Lappe's book 70s-era (DFASP) that contains the famous graphs of essential amino acid profiles and complementation in foods, and can talk about them intelligently. I've been able to draw amino acids from memory when back in Organic Chemistry as a pre-med.

Here is a link to the article I wrote on food preps as a public service for Y2K preparation for the website I owned pre-rollover:
http://tinyurl.com/88jlz3f .

I expect this will establish credentials to your satisfaction.

The point remains: food preps should be concentrated in food value, relative to space and weight as well as cost. That most definitely includes minimizing water content insofar as possible. This is why for example dried products such as beans and grains (wheat, rice, etc.) are so efficient WRT food storage. Preppers commonly obtain large quantities powdered milk in preference to canned milk for this same reason (as well as cost).

Oh, and Davis? I believe she said that if a person ate right, they need never die. She then proceeded to get cancer and die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelle_Davis

"...Davis received significant and strong criticism from fellow nutritionists, with one review commenting that her works were "at best a half truth."[3] While lauded for her ability to open the public to the concept of science in nutrition, she was nevertheless heavily criticized for misusing the science in her nutritional works to come to "ridiculous conclusions," especially in light of her scientific training. Amongst the many views not supported by nutritionists include her view that not only physical health but mental and social ills could be cured with the proper diet, stating alcoholism, crime, suicide and divorce were the product of mere poor diet.[2] Although she was very popular with the public in general in the 1970s, none of her books were recommended by any significant nutritional professional society of the time. Independent review of the superficially impressive large number of citations to the scientific literature in her books found that the citations often either misquoted the scientific literature or was contradicted by or unsupported by the proposed citation, and that errors in the book averaged at least one per page.[5] One review noted that only 30 of 170 citations in a sample taken from one chapter accurately supported the assertions in her book.[2] Additionally, the 1969 White House Conference on Food, Nutrition, and Health labelled her probably the single most harmful source of false nutritional information.[1]

Most concerning to physicians and nutritionists who reviewed her work was not only the scientific inaccuracies, but the dangerous, and "potentially lethal," recommendations that appeared in her books."

[Summerthyme]

Oh, good grief!

MS... for once, why don't you stick to your area of expertise (and I'm sorry, but "yeast nutrition" has damned little to do with feeding a family and raising healthy children... I can't WAIT until you pull that one on your kids pediatrician! OMG!) and let those of us whose calling is homemakers and keepers of the kitchen and home use OUR expertise.

It's NOT "either or". I don't want to know what you consider "worthy" of being canned, to be honest... you quite clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about! But it doesn't make any difference... if someone wants to can their homemade soups (which, at least around here, are often closer to "stew" and are absolutely not "mostly water") because THEY feel it's the right thing to feed their family, it's no one's business to tell them not to! Good grief!!

I suppose we should throw the broth away when we're canning our chicken? Maybe you don't realize that many recipes call for broth... and if it's a choice between using my home canned broth, made from my freshly butchered, home raised chickens, or the commercial stuff from the cage raised birds fed the cheapest possible feed... well, I know what I choose.

I rarely can broth alone because one of my major reasons for canning is to ultimately save time (and energy, both mine and that required to cook foods), so I turn it into soup and then can IT. A pint of home canned chicken/vegetable/rice (or barley, or noodles) soup plus a slice of 9 grain homebaked bread, with all freshly ground whole wheat flour, and either fresh vegetables and fruit, or home canned (or dehydrated) fruit and veggies is a well balanced, nutritious meal. And it fills us up and gives us the fuel needed to finish the other half of our 14 hour day...

I suppose if someone is limited to 100 jars and needs to cram as many calories and grams of nutrition into those jars, broth would be a poor choice. But a meaty, vegetable packed soup actually might be a pretty good choice.

When I say I can 300 pints of soup, that's 300 out of over a thousand jars... everything from beef and chicken to assorted vegetables and fruits, stew, jams and jellies, pickles...

Believe me, if we had to eat ONLY from the homecanned stuff in our basement, we'd not only survive, but be healthier than most Americans.

Unbelievable...

Summerthyme

[Donnie]

I'm going to now edit this, because I've experimented more over the past year, and found that adding the noodles or rice TO THE BOILING SOUP, just before putting it in the jars, works MUCH better!

I now bring the soup to a boil, having clean jars, lids, etc ready to go, and the canner on the stove. I toss in the noodles, and let it all boil for ONE MINUTE... just long enough to "seal" the starch. This prevents the development of a large lump of starchy, clumpy noodles or rice on the bottom of the jars.

When one minute is up, I turn off the heat, put the soup in the jars and get them into the canner immediately. This isn't a frantic race with time, but it needs to be done steadily and immediately... don't go off and do something else, and make sure you have your jars ready to go. If the noodles spend much time cooking before you get them into the jars and canner, you're likely to have badly overcooked noodles (or rice) in the end.

Also, brown rice holds it's shape much better than white rice, and is worth experimenting with (it also has a lot better nutritional profile)

Liteluvr- we seem to have come to the same conclusion separately! Great minds.. or something

I didn't see your post... never came back to this thread...

I'll see if I can come up with some recipes... I was sure I posted a bunch here. They probably got lost in that purge thanks to those Righthaven morons... darn...

Summerthyme

Please do post some recipes!!! Thank you in advance.

[Summerthyme]

Some posted here:
http://74.39.184.126/vb/showthread.php?t=158049

[willowlady]

is a valuable thing. There are a couple of caveats. Most important, soups need to be pressure canned to the length of time and pressure of the least acidic ingredient in the soup. Meaning: If you add veggies to your soups, you must can for the longest duration veggie. I have not tried canning raw rice due to concerns about changes in pressure as the rice absorbs fluid. Summerthyme sounds like she has and she knows what she's doing. I would not bother canning noodles in anything, because I can whip up a batch of fresh noodles in a couple of hours and add them to the good soup base, and IMO my noodles would pretty much turn to mush if canned. Summerthyme may have a noodle recipe that holds up better when canned. If so, please post?

As far as MS's post, he completely overlooks one essential concept. Making and canning homemade soup is a basic prep item. Notwithstanding that soups do indeed take up extra space because they contain fluid, they still have value in a prep situation. Soup can be eaten cold out of the jar if there is a need to go dark, or if a method of heating and cooking is not then available. They will provide fluid in such dire circumstances. If you cannot cook, cannot heat and sterilize water, water is perhaps in short supply (especially if you have had to go dark) how exactly to you re-hydrate those dried preps? While our canned preps may not meet all the essential elements in nutritional needs, they DO represent calories, which will keep body and soul together long enough to work on more balanced nutrition. Okay, so the person eating preps may not be in optimal health. So what? If they are alive and can function, they can continue to contribute to the post-SHTF efforts to bring another generation or two to maturity.

[carol b]

There are other reasons to can soups and stews. I try to have some on hand for the day that we're in the middle of the crisis and we all have the flu and none of us is well enough to cook.

Or, I can share some with a hungry neighbor who isn't well enough to cook either....
or, for some reason I'm not around and there is something in the cupboard for whomever is here.
There is nothing better than a rabbit or chicken potpie made from canned meat and broth.
Bullion cubes? Ewe.

[Summerthyme]

Willowlady... I found something called "kluski" noodles in our local store. They're sort of squarish... thick and narrow.

Here- these are what I've used:
http://www.amazon.com/Mill-Kluski-No...9234678&sr=8-2

They do expand, into essentially flat egg noodles, after canning. However, chicken noodle soup around here is "medicine"... it's the one thing hubby wants to eat if he's not feeling well for any reason. Having jars ready to "heat and eat", rather than having to bring the soup to a boil and then add and cook noodles from the pantry, is a real convenience at those times. Even moreso if (doesn't happen often!) we're both under the weather.

I figured if Campbells could manage to can soup with noodles, there HAD to be a way I could do it! And using those noodles, plus the technique I outlined above (add to boiling soup, cook for 1 minute to "seal" them, and then can immediately, works.

After a night of thinking about it, the ONLY reason I can see for canned soups (or canned ANYthing, for that matter) to not be a "good thing" would be when bugging out on foot.

I can't afford- and don't especially like- freeze dried and dehydrated foods all that much. However, I do have one backpack full of them, for precisely that scenario... just in case, for whatever reason, we have to leave the house in a hurry. I can carry a week's worth of food for several people very easily in that form, whereas canned goods are heavy.

However, in the 30+ years I've been prepping, we've never had to bug out... but we've eaten very well out of the pantry and cupboards, all full of homecanned foods of every description.

Summerthyme

[willowlady]

Summerthyme, those Kluski noodles, even with free shipping, amount to $3.45 per pound. That's way out of my price range. However, I looked up the definition and there are a couple of varieties of Kluski. One is a dumpling and they evidently are made with mashed potatoes. The actual noodles are SO similar to my homemade noodles.... I think I'll try your method of cooking them just a minute to seal them, and then canning them. I'll have to cut them a little differently, but I'll manage. Thanks for the (as usual) good info.

As you mentioned, there are many reasons to have homemade canned soup around. I was looking at it from a strictly prep angle. Another very good reason to home-can the soups is: You can strictly control the salt to a reasonable level and still have the soup just as tasty as can be by adding other ingredients.

There is no question my homemade noodles taste so, so much better than any store bought. About five years ago I bought a big package of what looked like my homemade noodles from Costco. They were about $1.10 a lb at that time. Good Deal! I came home and eagerly made up a batch to go in my chicken soup. They tasted like they were made with cardboard. Absolutely zero flavor, gummy -- not tender -- no I didn't overcook them. I eventually used them up, but have been making homemade since then. Labor intensive, no doubt, but I'm retired and it keeps my upper body alive... So does making the homemade bread.