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Thread: Trouble Shooting Bread Toughness

  1. #1
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    Default Trouble Shooting Bread Toughness

    I'm reaching a point where I think I need a little outside help because something is not working right. I'm using a basic French Bread Recipie and my results are kinda dense.

    3 cups flour
    2 teaspoons salt
    2 teaspoons yeast
    1 1/8 cup water
    On my last loaf I tried mixing my yeast in the warm water first to give it a chance to activate. This resulted in a good first rise. I punched it down and it never really recovered. I didn't even get much of a bounce when I put it in the oven. Both times the bread comes out kinda dense and I'm wondering if the problem is in my kneading. I don't know if I'm not going long enough or if I'm being too rough or what.

    When I last made my bread I kneaded for about 5 minutes and the dough seemed to be hard and stiff and I was worried I manhandled it too much. Everywhere I read tells me that the dough is supposed to become silky and smooth.

    Any advice?
    Though He slay me, I will hope in Him. Job 13:15a

  2. #2
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    The two things that come to mind, myself not being a bread expert by any stretch of the imagination, is maybe bad yeast (didn't rise properly?) or too much kneading.

    From what I understand, kneading makes the fibers knit together (I think it's the glutens?) and the more you knead, the tighter they bind.

    That's the extent of my knowledge (if you want to call it that lol).

    Others here know much more and I'm sure will chime in soon!

  3. #3
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    You can knead too much and get tough bread, when I first started bread making in the 1970's; I had this problem. I had been used to making pottery and smashing old clay around to get out air bubbles, so if you knead bread to that degree sometimes it ends up tough.

    Other reasons can be the humidity (or lack of it) in the air on a given day, or letting the first rise go on for too long so the bread "collapses." If the yeast has become "tired" and the bread falls down, it probably is never really going to rise again.

    Such dough works well as griddle bread, fry bread or crackers; but trying to bake it as is usually results in a hard, low, loaf.

    You might want to try a bit of a lighter recipe for your next batch (add 2 TBSP of olive oil and make it Italian bread for example) and see if you get a better result. Plain French Bread can be tricky and usually only last well for one day; I tend to make the Italian version for my husband. He likes the plain, sort of salty, European style breads; but the ones with a bit of oil tend to be lighter and last longer.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  4. #4
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    I think you have too much salt, but I am by NO means an expert.

    Try this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTY4WJRSzY8

    (It's a man. Making French Bread. In 10 minutes.)


    Or this:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Canadian.../8/Y6WCLZRQAws

    (It's a woman. Making a Quick Food Processor Baguette. Long video - 27 minutes.)

  5. #5
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    it sounds like you might need to add a little bit more water



    it is possible to kneed it too much, but unless you have got pipes of steel and are beating the bloody snot out of it, 5 minutes isn't usually enough kneeding time to have that happen. from your description, i would try adding in a little bit more water
    float like a butterfly...

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jez View Post
    I'm reaching a point where I think I need a little outside help because something is not working right. I'm using a basic French Bread Recipie and my results are kinda dense.

    3 cups flour
    2 teaspoons salt
    2 teaspoons yeast
    1 1/8 cup water

    On my last loaf I tried mixing my yeast in the warm water first to give it a chance to activate. This resulted in a good first rise. I punched it down and it never really recovered. I didn't even get much of a bounce when I put it in the oven. Both times the bread comes out kinda dense and I'm wondering if the problem is in my kneading. I don't know if I'm not going long enough or if I'm being too rough or what.

    When I last made my bread I kneaded for about 5 minutes and the dough seemed to be hard and stiff and I was worried I manhandled it too much. Everywhere I read tells me that the dough is supposed to become silky and smooth.


    Any advice?
    This recipe seems strange to me. not enough yeast, too much salt and no sugar at all. Ive made all our bread here for fifty years. here's s a french bread recipe that has never failed me.


    1 Tablespoon. yeast in one cup warm water (not over 105-110 degrees. Over that and it kills the little yeast critters.) (Let stand 10 minutes.)
    2 Tablespoons sugar
    2 Tablespoons butter melted and cooled
    3 Cups flour
    1 teaspoon salt
    2 stiffly beaten egg whites flolded in last (optional, but I find it makes the bread last more than the usual day french bread is good for.)


    knead 10 minutes with dough hook on mixer or by hand. Cover, let rise one hour. Punch down and shape into two skinny loaves. Cover, Let rise again for about 45 minutes. slash 4 or 5 slashes in tops to facilitate even rising. bake 25-30 min at 350 degrees.


    You can brush the tops with a beaten egg mixed with a Tbls of water to make shiney and cause sesame seeds to stick. Do this egg wash just before baking being careful not to deplate the bread. for years that was a problem for me and so I use a goose feather for that. Works great.


    When looking at a bread recipe remember sugar feeds the yeast and makes it grow faster. Salt slows it down. Don't let salt come in contact with the yeast in the beginning. It will kill the yeast. Add salt last to not inhibit the yeast.

  7. #7
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    I've noticed over the years that the weather, particulary the humidity and heat, can make a huge difference in the bread textures. I gave up making bread in the summer for that reason. Just does not work well here.

  8. #8
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    First question- what kind of flour?

    Summerthyme

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summerthyme View Post
    First question- what kind of flour?

    Summerthyme
    Bleached AP. I also have some Unbleached. Haven't tried Bread Flour just yet.
    Though He slay me, I will hope in Him. Job 13:15a

  10. #10
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    There's a good part of your problem. Plain bleached "all purpose" flour is low in protein and doesn't even have any of the additives that even the cheapest (cough, Sam'sclub, cough) "bread flour" has. It's low in gluten compared to bread flour or whole wheat flour, because people don't want tough cakes or pastries- and gluten makes baked goods tough.

    You can get away with using all purpose if you're also using some whole wheat, or if you add gluten.

    BUT... for a bread like French bread, which doesn't have anything like butter or eggs or milk or ANYTHING to help improve a mediocre flour... the most important ingredient is your flour.

    If you can, find a store which sells King Arthur flour products and buy a bag of bread flour. Or see if you can find a restaurant supply store and buy a bag of bread flour (buy 5# of King Arthur first, though and try it... I'll bet you'll be hunting for a source for bulk bread flour shortly after that!)

    If that doesn't do it, adding a bit of sugar (even a tsp should help) will feed the yeast. But get some different flour first.

    Summerthyme

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