?'s about suicide....

[jimmythebee]

The unforgivable sin is not murder, which is what you are doing when you kill someone. In killing yourself, you are still killing one of God's children. For someone to do that while in a sound mind would put them in a perilous situation IMO. However, God is totally fair and He is the only One that knows our heart and mind. I am sure He understands when someone is pushed over the mental brink by pain and anguish. Has anyone of sound mind ever killed himself? I really doubt it.

a wise answer

[Wiskey Reb]

The question can be rightly asked as to whether anyone who commits any murder is of sound mind. To put it bluntly, That kind of crazy takes hold of anyone who seeks to kill someone unjustly. Most people who choose to take their own lives don't do so rashly in an instant. Rather, it is a considered, deliberate act, usually decided over a period of time, like premeditated murder. Granted, one may come to a rash moment and seek to carry the plan out, but not before deciding upon the course of action in advance and at least on some level coming to a point of embracing the idea.

This stuff has been a constant companion for me for a month. And I know that some, as with my sister, have chronic pain, anxiety, etc. None the less, it all comes down to a rationalization and a decision.

One can never discover whether or not someone else's decision for suicide came from a mind of ignorance/insanity or from calculated disobedience to God resulting in depravity, like Romans describes. It is a closed, dark closet. And it will remain a nagging, festering welt on ones soul. It sucks, but it's the truth. It would be self dillusion to clamor for comfort where there is none to be had. I need the truth, not a placebo. I suspect the same to be so of the OP.

[grower]

Thank you both for your quick replies, although it took me more than 13 years to face the question. I can't help but think that God knew the terrible pain that she was in and forgave her...but (yea, there's always a but) I hear so much of the one sin that can't be forgiven. I guess my heart and my head have conflicts of what I will not know until I am there.

And yes, I still pray for my mother after all these years....

According to Jesus, there is only one unpardonable sin:

Mark 3:28-30
New King James Version (NKJV)

The Unpardonable Sin
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”


I have known people who committed suicide, and usually they are extremely depressed. They should trust God, but at that point it's very difficult. I believe God understands what they're going through and does not condemn them to Hell just because they ended their own life. (That's a Catholic teaching, btw.) Where we go when we die only has to do with who our Lord is. If Jesus Christ is our Lord, and we're saved through the blood he shed on our behalf on the cross, he knows his own, and his own will be with him when they die.

Btw, it may comfort you to pray for your mother long after she's gone, but there's no biblical basis for it. What's done is done, she's where she was headed while she was here, and nothing you do now can alter that. I hope you see her when you get to the Lord's side.

[tygerkittn]

Btw, it may comfort you to pray for your mother long after she's gone, but there's no biblical basis for it. What's done is done, she's where she was headed while she was here, and nothing you do now can alter that. I hope you see her when you get to the Lord's side.

God exists outside of time, He is all knowing and all seeing, He knew years ago what I would be praying for now.
I have free will, but He knows what my actions will be, because He knows all, I can't surprise the Omniscient, therefore my prayers ripple through time and space, and it is never too late to pray for someone.
He never gives up on us, so I refuse to give up on anyone.

[Animal Lover]

God exists outside of time, He is all knowing and all seeing, He knew years ago what I would be praying for now.
I have free will, but He knows what my actions will be, because He knows all, I can't surprise the Omniscient, therefore my prayers ripple through time and space, and it is never too late to pray for someone.
He never gives up on us, so I refuse to give up on anyone.

Amen to that Tygerkitten. HE will never give up on us and I believe the way you do too. I know my son and my Grandma and Grandpa and others are all in heaven but I still pray for them and I talk to them in my mind and heart. I will continue to do so until we are all together again.

[Thors Hammer]

Thank you both for your quick replies, although it took me more than 13 years to face the question. I can't help but think that God knew the terrible pain that she was in and forgave her...but (yea, there's always a but) I hear so much of the one sin that can't be forgiven. I guess my heart and my head have conflicts of what I will not know until I am there.

And yes, I still pray for my mother after all these years....

The "sin that can't be forgiven" is the blasphemy of the Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit) as it was proclaimed by Yahshua (Jesus). The other are those sins that are not repented of, for as it is written, "REPENT and THEN be baptized for the forgiveness of sin." If one refuses to repent of violations of YHWH's laws and instructions (1 John 3:4), then forgiveness is not obtainable. One must also remember that ALL SIN CEASES at death, for death is the penalty for sin, violation of YHWH's instructions (laws). She has paid and so did Yahshua.

The teachings of some "earthly" religions about "self-murder" are neither biblical nor correct, and while the destruction of the image of YHWH is not to be taken lightly, YHWH and Yahshua requested a desire for "mercy" to be weightier matters of the Law.

I would suggest you rest your mind about her taking her own life, for neither your worry nor your sorrow will change anything in that matter, but focus your energy toward living a life obedient to YHWH's instructions. Once this is, then let YHWH and Yahshua handle the rest.

[1Ms. America]

The "sin that can't be forgiven" is the blasphemy of the Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit) as it was proclaimed by Yahshua (Jesus). The other are those sins that are not repented of, for as it is written, "REPENT and THEN be baptized for the forgiveness of sin." If one refuses to repent of violations of YHWH's laws and instructions (1 John 3:4), then forgiveness is not obtainable. One must also remember that ALL SIN CEASES at death, for death is the penalty for sin, violation of YHWH's instructions (laws). She has paid and so did Yahshua.

The teachings of some "earthly" religions about "self-murder" are neither biblical nor correct, and while the destruction of the image of YHWH is not to be taken lightly, YHWH and Yahshua requested a desire for "mercy" to be weightier matters of the Law.

I would suggest you rest your mind about her taking her own life, for neither your worry nor your sorrow will change anything in that matter, but focus your energy toward living a life obedient to YHWH's instructions. Once this is, then let YHWH and Yahshua handle the rest.

You said what was on MY heart to say. The part highlighted in red is very much a central issue. In times past, when death was eminent people would often leave the clan/tribe and let the natural elements take care of things.

Many people have sacrificed their own lives on behalf of the lives of others. Was that sin?

Y'shuah could have called on legions of angels to protect him from death but he didn't. Was that sin?

Some people do commit suicide as a result of an utter lack of faith and trust in YHVH. Because THEY can't see how to make their own will change the world and people around them, they simply end the world by ending themselves. THIS is an example of utter selfishness.

Someone in my life, a family member, attempted suicide twice. She had 6 children who depended on her, but her greatest concern was her lover and HIS attitude. They'd been drinking and for some reason he decided to kill himself with his shot gun. The gun went off and so SHE decided to consume some pills in order to kill HERself. Well, instead of killing himself, he discharged the gun at the sky but she didn't know that.

The second time she tried was because of her obsession with this same man. I guess he ''didn't love her enough'' this time. In any event, lack of faith/trust in YHVH was an issue as was total selfishness. How were her children supposed to cope with that?

Attitude counts for a lot. Someone who knows that their death is just weeks/months away, who is already in horrible pain and knows its going to get worse...I just can't see that as sin. Sin is transgression of the Word of YHVH according to John and I've seen nothing in the word to indicate that when death is eminent, you are sinning against YHVH by dying.

So there are times when suicide IS sin, and times when it isn't. On the other hand, there are people who live entire lifetimes whose end is judgment. What's the difference between this one and the one who defiantly kills himself? In the end, maybe none.

Ultimately, the one thing we ALL so need to learn and understand is the Lordship, the SOVEREIGNTY of YHVH. We've GOT to come to the realization and understanding that he doesn't owe us a blessed thing. Not even the next breath. He doesn't owe us good health, good food, safe dwelling, fortune, friends, fame and he doesn't even owe us grace.

It's NOT his job to follow US around looking for every opportunity to bless us one way or another, or seeing to it that we are comfy and happy, or bowing to our will.

It is however OUR job to do exactly that regarding HIM.

Life is precious, but it's precious because every morning that we awake from our slumber is a rehearsal for the resurrection, and an opportunity to worship him by serving him in whatever way he has planned for that day. And yet, the word also says that there is a time to die. And it's appointed to humans to die once and after that, the judgment.

Dear Op, your mother didn't die because she didn't love you. I think she was attempting to spare you, her loved ones, the agony of watching her waste away so that you could grieve and get back to living again. Her time was near, she knew it, and all she did was face it and get it done and over with. That takes courage in my opinion. There are many who seek to avoid death by doing everything they can to fight against it. And yet, there is a time to die so are they rebelling against the word by trying to escape it?

One thing that angers and frustrates me to no end is false religion, or false religious teaching. So much of it sounds so logical but is so deadly to our spirits. It destroys our trust in our creator and our redeemer. No matter what mistakes we humans make, ultimately YHVH's wisdom rules. Trust that. Your mother's eternal destiny is in HIS hands and isn't a matter of your belief, society's belief systems, religious belief systems...No matter the final outcome, it will be the RIGHT outcome and if you are in HIS will, you will know that and you will be at peace with that.

Rest friend. YHVH is righteous and his wisdom is without error. It will be OK. Trust HIM and rest.

((((((((to all who grieve as a result of someone's suicide)))))))

[Hungry Seagull]

There are facilities that will arrange for you to terminate if you are with a sickness, a cancer or whatever that makes life itself a living hell. You are simply taking yourself out of that. Oregon has these and Belgium also. It is not exactly supported because many people have a problem with it.

One of my doctors ate his .45 handgun when he decided that a certain stage of Bone Cancer was going to kill him anyway and in great pain that cannot be stopped by medicines. So he pinned his DNR on the coat and finished it. The reason he ate his .45 is because there is a Fatal T which is your brain stem that controls your body's life support. Cut that and you drop like a sack of potatoes dead before you hit the ground.

It always leaves survivors with questions. And sometimes it is done because the alternative is not living.

[Buick Electra]

I know you said that you are not Catholic. But the Church holds that someone who commits suicide is, well, effectively operating under diminished capacity. That there is some form of mental illness at work. And given that, that we cling to the mercy of the One who sees-and understands-all.

I know that it has been a while, but you have my sympathies on your loss...

Rachel

Let me build on what JS said above and add that if believers who clung to Christ crumbled under "diminished capacity" where they no longer had the capacity TO cling to Christ...because they were THAT diminished,... don't you think God would know this?

[PatrickHenry2]

That’s a tough one. I am certainly not a theologian either but I will share our view on the subject.

God has a plan for all of us. None of us were put on this earth to just exist. Part of what we are to do on earth is “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”.

Frequently suicide is the work of Satan. Satan corrupts our thinking into believing that is the best way out of our troubles. Most of the time suicide is an extremely selfish act, indicating that it is not of God’s good pleasure.

The core of the question then is, “is suicide a sin” and the answer is yes it is IMO. It’s the same as asking is being gay a sin? Yes, it is.

HOWEVER we are all sinners. Galatians 2:19 comes to mind

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”


So then the question is not did she go to hell because she committed suicide. The question is was she saved? Was she a believer?

There is a little ditty that goes

Here lays an atheist
All dressed up with no place to go
I’ll bet he wished that it was so…

So the technical answer is if she believed she probably went to heaven. And we mortals may never know that..we know not what she did on her death bed or in private before hand. These are the eternal varieties though, not everyone is going to Heaven. I am pretty sure my mother isn’t, and I know my grandfather didn’t but what I cant do is get bogged down with that and let it serve to minimize my service to God.

So, my advice is

A) Forgive yourself for doubts, guilt, shoulda woulda, coulda’s. That’s not productive and its not fair to yourself.

B) As Summertyme says, turn this pain over to God, pray to him and ask for it to be removed.

C) Never forget the concept of “there but for the grace of God go I”. (key word there is GRACE) I personally cannot tell you that I wouldn’t also have taken my own life if I was in your mothers state (God rest her soul) so it is most certainly not our place to sit in judgment of her.

D) Find something constructive to do with this experience. Life on earth frequently sucks..even for believers but we have a moral obligation to feel joy and appreciation and to walk that walk. Tests and challenges as well as favor and blessings are frequently generational in nature. What you do with said tests or blessings is completly optional. Here's hoping that you, all of us, can live, no matter what tests or blessings, in a way that "does not grieve the Holy Spirit"