Greece on the breadline: cashless currency takes off

[Sam2]

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A determination to 'move beyond anger to creativity' is driving a strong barter economy in some places




Series: Greece on the breadline:
cashless currency takes off

Jon Henley in Volos
Friday 16 March 2012

www.guardian.co.uk





'You are poor when you have nothing to offer – except for the elderly and the sick,
to whom we should all be offering.' Photograph: Yannis Behrakis/Reuters

In recent weeks, Theodoros Mavridis has bought fresh eggs, tsipourou (the local brandy: beware), fruit, olives, olive oil, jam, and soap. He has also had some legal advice, and enjoyed the services of an accountant to help fill in his tax return.

None of it has cost him a euro, because he had previously done a spot of electrical work – repairing a TV, sorting out a dodgy light – for some of the 800-odd members of a fast-growing exchange network in the port town of Volos, midway between Athens and Thessaloniki.

In return for his expert labour, Mavridis received a number of Local Alternative Units (known as tems in Greek) in his online network account. In return for the eggs, olive oil, tax advice and the rest, he transferred tems into other people's accounts.

"It's an easier, more direct way of exchanging goods and services," said Bernhardt Koppold, a German-born homeopathist and acupuncturist in Volos who is an active member of the network. "It's also a way of showing practical solidarity – of building relationships."





More at the link.

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[rlm1966]

And the taxman / bankers don't get a cut. Ahh ain't that a shame. I do believe that going forward we will be seeing more and more of this.

[TomNTam]

I think that this has already been addressed here in this country, and it is now illegal to barter, to which this is called. I could be wrong, but I thought I read something in some post, to that effect.

[Pastor Guest]

And the taxman / bankers don't get a cut. Ahh ain't that a shame. I do believe that going forward we will be seeing more and more of this.

Private currency and barter are good ideas, but TPTB will not tolerate them. It deprives them of power.

[Ludwig]

I do not think barter is illegal. But you are expected to claim a proper amount of tax owed on you income taxes. How could anybody outlaw basic trade? We do, however, still owe taxes on all transactions.

[Millwright]

IMHO doing this online is a major error. It makes it too easy for TPTB to follow and prosecute.

[Meemur]

IMHO doing this online is a major error. It makes it too easy for TPTB to follow and prosecute.

Yes. Face-to-face only. Maintain NO lists. Small, independent groups work best. You're either a known customer or referred by a trusted customer.

[Big Red]

I think that this has already been addressed here in this country, and it is now illegal to barter, to which this is called. I could be wrong, but I thought I read something in some post, to that effect.

Not illegal (if it were, half the population of Maine would be behind bars), but legally you're supposed to keep track of the transactions and pay taxes on their cash value. However, if you're trading items of equal value, I'm not sure where the taxable income is.

[Earl Sinclair]

Barter is NOT illegal in the US ( yet ).

HOWEVER, the way it's supposed to work is that both parties are supposed to declare a value of the items traded in FRNs then pay taxes as if they were income on both sides.

In some places, such as California, you're also expected to pay sales taxes on both sides.

Let's give an example...

You go to a flea market with a pair of tires you don't need. As you wander around, somebody is selling some CDs that you can't live without. After a fair amount of negotiation, you agree to give him your tires in exchange for 20 CDs.

The Feds want you to declare a value on the two used tires, so you say they're worth $10 each, for a total of $20. The guy with the CDs then ( ostensibly ) are valued at $1 each for a total of $20.

The $20 is supposed to be declared as income on both income tax returns. And, in California, you're supposed to collect 8%-11% sales tax, and remit that to the town.

That's the LEGAL requirement, of course. Nobody does that. Which is why the taxers don't like barter and flea markets.

We won't even go into the whole murky world of selling possessions and how they should be counted?

You bought silver for $5 / oz and sell it for $30 / oz. You're supposed to declare a capital gains of $25 / oz and send in the appropriate paperwork and taxes.

But - if you buy, say, an inverter for $2,500 and never open the box. Then sell it for $1,000 later - the rules become very very murky. Is it a loss? But, it's still income at the time of sale, right? But, it's a loss. You got no utility out of it, and sold it for a $1,500 loss.

There are ways of recording all these things, though the IRS does NOT really count losses in the same way as gains ( you get a maximum loss "allowance" ), and you'd better have all your receipts and stuff. Plus, there's like four different sets of paperwork you're supposed to fill out.

And, when you sell it in California, you're still supposed to pay that sales tax...

It's no wonder people don't record these things.

I suspect that there will be an increasing number of stings where LEOs go out and "barter" and then bring the hammer down when the other parties don't fill out all the paperwork and send checks.

This country has become a nightmare. Seriously.


Earl


PS( If you think that you can just declare your barter item to be $1 and basically eliminate 99% of the various taxes....please bear in mind that doing that is considered fraud, and it's a felony. )

[TomNTam]

Sorry, I meant trade without govt. control, is illegal.