Stay Informed! "Obamacare's Contract Problem"

[4Him]

I am not sure about that but I know that they have said that if the mandate is removed, the rest of the law will have to go as they are depending on the mandate to help pay for everything else.

Here is the information for Talking Points Memo DC:



But what happens if they determine that the mandate is unconstitutional anyhow?
On Tuesday, the court will hear arguments about just how “severable” the ACA is. Major legislation often includes what’s known as a “severability clause,” to prevent courts from invalidating entire laws when they find that small sections of those laws violate the Constitution.
By dint of a small, but highly consequential legislative oversight, the ACA does not include such a clause. That means it’ll be up to the justices to decide how much of the law can stand if they rule that the individual mandate violates the Constitution.
There are three main possibilities: The court could throw out the mandate alone; they could throw out the mandate along with two other key provisions of the law that are very closely tied to the mandate; or they could throw out the entire thing.
The challengers will argue that if the mandate falls, the rest of the law must go as well — that the law is “inseverable.” That, of course, is the conservative challengers’ ultimate goal. But it’s also a concession that the mandate is necessary if Congress is going to require insurance companies to sell coverage to all people, without bias to pre-existing medical conditions — one of the law’s central and most popular goals.
So far only one federal trial court judge — Judge Roger Vinson of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida — has ruled that the entire law must go on the basis of his determination that the mandate is unconstitutional.
“I think that it’s almost inconceivable that they would strike the entire statute,” said Timothy Jost — a legal scholar, and supporter of the health care law. “It would be a major threat to the legitimacy of the court.”

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-obamacare.php

[jed turtle]

I advocate access to at least minimum care for everyone.
I believe human beings should care enough about each other to do this, instead of sending low wage workers to their deaths because they don't "have a good job" or can't afford $1000+ per month for basic sh*t health insurance that covers almost nothing.

However, this new scheme plays like NAFTA.

I wonder if this may end up surprizing everyone -

What if it is decided that if humans can not be forced to purchase medical insurance then hospitals, etc can not be force to provide medical care ?

Look down the road a few years, as the bankruptcy-crash looms on the horizon. Perhaps in a decade there will be no more tax payer funded socialized medicine for certain groups and the only people with access will be those with plenty of wealth ...

i favor no insurance for anyone unless they can pay for it. no more welfare schemes. we are bankrupt, financially and morally. we are now very far into the pit of debt - way beyond the point of no return - and unless we can afford something, we don't buy it, do it, or even dream about. the whole country has turned into "we're so generous and liberal we will take this money from Joe over here who obviously has too much and give it to you".

thus the government has become a thief and destroyer of our property and labor. and in the process has destroyed the work ethic of entire RACES of people in our country, replacing it with an ENTITLEMENT mentality.

[2ndfiddle]

Thanks for posting this Kozanne.

Do I remember correctly that Kagan will recuse herself from hearing this case???? I hope so.

[4Him]

No recusal from Kagan. That would be the honorable thing to do. It will all depend on Kennedy.

[Trasael Adnepos]

The precedent has been set, by evasion of the "contract" issue, (redefinition), on Social Insecurity etc., to simply write around the consensual contract issue. Social policy is set by economic policy, set by the IMF/UN in incestuous fUNding relationship with what passes for government. Does no one know this was settled in the 1940's? It will be a miracle if SCOTUS rules against "them" on this one, but I hope they do, and IF they do, all that is required is to rewrite the law and nationalize all "health insurance" more directly. Does anyone doubt that is possible?

Time to figure out where and when you are capable of civil disobedience for firmly and sincerely held moral and religious convictions. 99% will already justify fUNding the BEAST with their forced contributions, out of moral cowardice masked as pragmatism, or for temporary security, or simply give no critical thought to what they are promoting UNder coercion at the end of a gun barrel. With the newly created mandate to give personal contractual consent and contribution to infanticide to have any health insurance policy, the question arises whether meaningful numbers will finally admit where the night trains are headed, and stand against rank, in your face, antichrist evil, in the mask of "compassion and social justice". Is the brainwashing complete?

Choose for yourselves whether it is better for US to obey men or God, but have the honesty to choose.

Tras

[saulteux]

bagpiper
You forget, the poor, have access, better than the middle class in many cases....
Ever heard of Medicaid, Medicare? Huh? So they TAKE away from those programs, in order to create a monster?

I did not say I advocate the new wealth confiscation scheme.
Not all the poor have access, this is a myth perpetrated by the propaganda media. There is very little "middle class" for those under 50 years of age, the bulk is low wagers, admit the illusion of middle class wealth still carries the day in the propaganda media.
The never workers have access, as does everyone over the age of 65, in between it is more or less a lottery or casino game and the house always wins.
The lowest working slaves - 60 Million - have nothing. I'm talking citizens.
The access varies state to state. The state I live in is more than generous. Ask an oncology nurse in a less generous state what kind of medical care someone with cancer and no health insurance gets.

It takes 2-3 years to gain access in most of these cases, and usually the patient succumbs within 2 years.

The issue is, do we allow forced contracts, under threat of force, for me to pay for the murder of the unborn and the free lifestyle choices of hedonists. The issue is not the poor, or 'women's rights.

We already have plenty of forced contracts - the motherS of them all is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. The extortion begins at birth. The recording is the birth certificate, social security card (you can't leave the hospital without applying for the nose ring), the wedding license, drivers license, etc, etc
Future generations are virtual slaves, so "mission accomplished".

The issue is SOCIALISM. Feelings based philosophy. "Awww, those poor people." The poor are always with us. It is the middle class who pay the bills. I will not pay for abortions, or contraceptives. I will not submit to a coerced 'contract'. I will not submit. I will not comply. I will not pay for MURDER and FORNICATION. I will not give up my rights, for anybody elses indolence.

We already have socialism, have for decades, it just favors certain groups and the groups that enjoy the "socialism", the transfer of wealth, the monies confiscated from the working slaves, do not call it socialism but it clearly is SOCIALISM.

Once 'society' owns your body...they own YOU. You become just an 'economic unit', where we were once proud to be called CITIZEN. Then you must understand, don't ya know, those guns you own are just too much of a RISK with THEIR bodies...

We are already "there" - look around, if you are not considered "valuable" or "vetted" (ie; over a certain age, or other label) you are basically scr**ed. Go to the ghettos or tent and RV cities filled with young to middle aged desperate families. Most of those fortunate to have a part time or low wage job eat and their children eat because of food stamps, fortunately.

Think down the road, indeed.
Your feelings have been used against your mind. It is the socialist WAY, to use GUILT and ENVY in order to conquer your MIND. If they were to quit screwing up the economy, there WOULD BE JOBS for those poor. But they have locked up the money, and it isn't flowing, except to their buddies and pet projects. Central planning has succeeded, in their Godless agenda.

Down the road ? We drove off the cliff 30 years ago. What we have today is Godless - Indeed, a Sick Society.

The casinos are filled, TV preachers "earn" multi millions, Millionaires and Billionaires collect social security and medicare, even get heart transplants, those hearts come almost exclusively from the young - so basically we are eating our young, but no one wants to admit this horrific truth, instead they accuse the young and poor of being stupid, or low class, they are considered worthless, probably just spare parts for the favored.
Where is the bible verse that says that those without wealth - ie; health insurance should suffer and deserve a horrible death ?

AND WE BUY INTO IT. Because in the words of Hosea, "my people are destroyed through a lack of knowledge."

Agree, most everyone is fine with the status quo, with our men and women fighting undeclared wars, with tens of thousands of veteran amputees, coffins carrying young corpses, draped with cheap Chinese made U.S. flags, so long as they get "theirs" - because we all know this is all that matters besides TV and entertainment or counting ones pile of gold.

I believe in the meaning of the Good Samaritan Parable, I believe in picking up used, abused, destroyed and ruined human beings off the streets and caring for them, even if I have to help pay for it and get nothing in return. If this belief makes me godless, then so be it. We will all find out on Judgment Day.

Friendly Reminder - notice the "godly" in this parable valued their wealth more than their fellow man, notice it was the "lowly" who acted and is godly, not the favored "groups" - notice the "lowly" spent his money on a stranger, his brother, yet expected nothing in return, notice the word Mercy, think of the meaning:

Luke 10:25-37

New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

I don't think there's anywhere in the above quoted post where Jesus said to use the government as a weapon to take from someone to "give" to another. Charity and giving is exactly that, charity and giving, and it is VOLUNTARY. What you seem support is forcible theft.

[moonarch]

Trasael Adnepos
I don't think there's anywhere in the above quoted post where Jesus said to use the government as a weapon to take from someone to "give" to another. Charity and giving is exactly that, charity and giving, and it is VOLUNTARY. What you seem support is forcible theft.

I do not support theft, this is why I advocate access to at least basic medical care for everyone, not just certain favored groups.

Today, 50 Million enjoy Medicare.

Today, 50 Million enjoy Social Security

Today, 10,000 More Retirees Daily - For The Next 20 Years - Until all 70-80 Million Reach The Golden Finish Line

Today, 50 Million enjoy Medicaid

Today, 43 Million enjoy Food Stamps

I'm guessing there are 30 Million on traditional, means tested welfare


Today we have more than 50 Million retired, 70-80 Million retirees retiring right behind the 50 Million - waiting for their piece of the ponzi pie.

So - the 50 Million current retirees, the 80 Million up and coming, 10,000 retiring per day, those 130 Million will all be on Medicare at age 65, the millions on welfare the millions on Medicaid, the millions on food stamps ...

You all are saying that the 60 Million who do not have access to health care, and or that the 130 Million full time workers must work until they drop dead for the opposing mob - they must work to serve mainly elders above them, and other groups, as a slave until their death. This is the American Dream for those getting the slave's wages, this is The American Nightmare for all the captured slaves (the 15 Trillion Natl Debt and 100 Trillion in Promises to Retirees).

This will not change until the bulk of the boomers and their parents pass, we have and will have Millions of dependent, so it is only fair that everyone has a seat at the table.

Today millions of wage slaves wages are stolen - taken by theft - and given to everyone over the age of 62 for socialist security and 65 for socialist medicine for the aged 65 and over only - neither of those programs are means tested, Billionaires and Millionaires and affluent enjoy the stolen wages of the poor, who have no access to medicine.

Millions of wage slaves wages are stolen for other means tested welfare programs.

I say make it fair and complete, otherwise all the slaves at the bottom of the pyramid will suffer greatly, many will succumb because they are basically just feed for 150 + Million Mob crushing them, feeding off of them as if they are livestock prepped for a cull.

So basically - you all want a permanent slave class that serves mobs of entitlees

You already have a permanent slave class, I want to reverse it, albeit I realize it is too late. Mission Accomplished.

Link:
Only 47% Of Working Age Americans Have Full Time Jobs

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/...#ixzz1qFIX8j2a

[saulteux]

I do not support theft, this is why I advocate access to at least basic medical care for everyone, not just certain favored groups.

Who pays for "access"? And How? Who defines "basic medical care"?

If the answer to any one of these questions mentions, or even infers, government, then it's theft.

[moonarch]

saulteux
Who pays for "access"? And How? Who defines "basic medical care"?

Everyone pays. Basic Medical Care would start with penicillin, stitches, casting a broken bone, a yearly dental cleaning, teeth extraction.
You know, just basic care that can solve a simple illness, so that the simple illness does not result in death because one does not have employer sponsored or subsidized health insurance - so young parents and middle aged who have been tossed don't have to crawl into the emergency room, minutes before death, minutes before their child dies of a high fever or infection. Then those poor souls have to worry about the legal authorities, they are pursued because they are poor.

How do you expect to get 4-6 decades, 40-60 years of slave wages from the slaves if they are not maintained, kept healthy ?
You all are killing the host. Perhaps the goal is less young people and less children, get rid of the future 1st, then the rest if gravy.

If the answer to any one of these questions mentions, or even infers, government, then it's theft.

Exactly, Millions of Americans middle aged and younger now realize they are slaves, that their wages have been stolen and given to other groups, most monies gifted or transferred from the poor's wages are not not even means tested. Now they are told they must work until they drop dead because a 150 Million + Mob expects and demands this.

One Hundred Million plus enjoy socialized medicine, but the working low wage slaves get none. This is clearly fraud and theft.

Is is about time the working slaves got something for all their stolen wages, besides the 15 Trillion Dollar Soul Crushing Slave Debt and the 100 Trillion dollars of Slave Debt Outlays - additional debt that the Slaves and their Slave Children and Slave Grandchildren are on the hook for.

Agree.

[kozanne]

Is is about time the working slaves got something for all their stolen wages, besides the 15 Trillion dollar soul crushing Slave Debt and the 100 Trillion dollars of Slave Debt Outlays - additional debt that the Slaves and their Slave Children and Slave Grandchildren are on the hook for.

And their 'chains' will get ever tighter as socialism imposes the shared misery of Obamacare on everyone. NOTHING is free.