Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 139

Thread: denominatinal fighting

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,140

    Default

    Oh yeah I almost forgot one last comment.

    all of these arguments of the Faith have been argued before ... since the reformation and even before
    And each of us must have all those arguements all over again in our hearts. "Come, let us reason together saith the LORD".....
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    ya know, the title of this thread caught my attention and despite the posters assertions of the catholic church being the one true church and we are heretics and hes trying to save us from ourselves im gonna say something......2 somethings actually...

    just finished a book that contained some info on eastern europe from the time the nazis and going thru the communist takeover and how christians fared. it was pretty grim.

    anyway the most important thing that stuck with me was this-----
    during the persecutions and strife the importance of ones denomination disappeared. being and acting like a christian, facing prison or death, was important. praying together, helping one another survive, sharing food, and get thru the spiritual, mental, physical hardships was what was important.

    suddenly everyone was just a christian first instead of catholic, baptist or whatever. kinda an interesting lesson dontcha think?

    second, fisheater, im an excatholic. and no amount of banging your drum is gonna convince me your version of christianity is what Jesus or paul or peter or the holy spirit envisioned as THE perfect representation of the Way of Christ.

    just because it survived/morphed over 2000 years just means it got politically astute and learned to play the game of thrones. it is just proof that God allowed it to continue, not proof that it is Gods chosen church.

    i researched its history, ive studied the popes and doctrines and encyclicals, claims and politics. i compared side by side what the 'church' said and what Jesus and the apostles said. know what i found out? there is a heck of a big difference. i think ill stay with the teachings of Christ and the apostles, thank you.

    nobody is more spiritual or holy or closer to God because they are a pope or cardinal or bishop or priest. nobody. titles or positions of power or authority dont mean squat to the King of Glory.

    considering the historical actions of the 'church', the persecutions, the inquisitions, the burnings, the making it illegal for nonclergy to own a copy of scripture, the death sentences, the corruptions, the selling of favors, the threat of excommunication to those who dont toe the line, forced conversions of jews, the selling of indulgences, the power grabbing, the encouraging of prayer and petitions to other than Christ.......there is no way you can convince me it is THE church of Christ on this earth.

    Jesus says we will know people by their fruit. so even tho there were saints and reformers and holy people who loved Jesus within the church thru the ages, what is the overall fruit we need to examine of this organized church to help us determine if its claims of being the One True Church are correct?

    i did my examination and to me its claims dont hold water. i left. so i guess that makes me a heretic. thats cool, i can live with that, they arent burning anymore i think. im not saying being catholic is bad, its a choice, one of many in how to express faith. religion is like a coat, its the outward signs of our fatih in Jesus Christ.

    if you are catholic, hey, be a holy one, love Jesus and serve Him and Him alone. throw away your mary beads and statues if you still got them, tho. thats bad juju.

    protestant denominations arent perfect either and maybe most dont have a proud track record, but at least the majority theme is to pay attention to studying and reading the bible and seeking Christ with their hearts and spirits. its promotes personal responsibility, a personal relationship with Christ as opposed to following rules built up over the centuries to promote an agenda.

    God blesses and honors each person who comes to Him, seeking Him...it doesnt matter their denomination. despite what i was taught, it is not the church or its sacraments that saves a soul. it is Jesus Christ.

    He said Come to ME...
    All who believe in ME will be saved...
    over and over He tells us what we need to do to be saved, Come to HIM, rely on HIM. nothing about having to belong to a specific church.

    if you really wanted to share the love of Christ and help others get closer to Him, youd come off your high horse, humble yourself and share with people the light of Christ in your heart and soul and how He has worked in your life.


    smacking people for refusing to recognize the popes claim of authority isnt gonna bring people to Christ.

    but you know that already.
    ***************************
    There is Only Jesus--no other worthy of honors or prayers or devotion. Anything or anyone else are end times deceptions distracting us from fully knowing Christ. There is No Other.

    CANNABIS MEDICINE RECIPES & INFO
    https://cannacancerblog.wordpress.com/blog/

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,446

    Default

    Jazzy ... I will sum up your convoluted post as such .. You saying your "Ex" Catholic bears no weight with me ... it only proves that you did not know your Faith when you left ..otherwise you wouldn't have left ... By your statements in the post above ... you still have no idea what you are talking about ..

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,140

    Default

    Fisheater, here is an explanation of a real and ancient catholic doctrine that I can midrash with.

    http://ronconte.wordpress.com/2010/1...ealcatholictv/
    The Errors of Michael Voris: anti-Judaism at RealCatholicTV

    Posted on 19 December 2010by Ron Conte
    Michael Voris at RealCatholicTV (on the website and on YouTube) does not present orthodox Catholic teaching.
    Michael Voris, S.T.B., seems to be the main teacher at RealCatholicTV. The S.T.B. after his name signifies that he has a Bachelors degree in Sacred Theology.
    This post will review his video entitled ‘The Jews’.
    Voris begins his talk on the Jews by saying that anti-Semitism only refers to prejudice against the Jews as an ethnic group, not as a religion. Why make this distinction? Perhaps it is because he realizes that he will be accused of anti-Semitism for the claims that he makes in this video. Now I’m not saying that Voris is guilty of anti-Semitism, that he prejudiced against the Jews because of their ethnicity, but rather that he is guilty of anti-Judaism, for his false and accusatory opinion of the Jewish Faith that is incompatible with Catholic teaching. So he makes a useful distintion.
    Voris claims, about the Jewish Faith in ancient times: “they had a Temple and offered sacrifice; the entire religion was focused on this one singular point…. Once however the Romans were done with their work, the Jews as the religion of the Covenant no longer existed…. No temple, no sacrifices, no priesthood, no Judaism. What replaced it in history is what has come down to us today: Rabbinical Judaism. This is not the Judaism of the Covenant. It is a man-made religion.” (YouTube video, The Jews)
    This claim by Voris is contrary to the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels about the Jewish Faith.
    [Matthew]
    {5:17} Do not think that I have come to loosen the law or the prophets. I have not come to loosen, but to fulfill.
    {5:18} Amen I say to you, certainly, until heaven and earth pass away, not one iota, not one dot shall pass away from the law, until all is done.
    The Jewish Faith is based on the law and the prophets, not on animal sacrifices at the Temple. This basis will not pass away as long as heaven and earth have not passed away.
    {7:12} Therefore, all things whatsoever that you wish that men would do to you, do so also to them. For this is the law and the prophets.
    The law and the prophets teach the love of neighbor, which has not passed away, and which Jews today still teach and practice.
    {22:36} “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
    {22:37} Jesus said to him: ” ‘You shall love the Lord your God from all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
    {22:38} This is the greatest and first commandment.
    {22:39} But the second is similar to it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
    {22:40} On these two commandments the entire law depends, and also the prophets.”
    The law and the prophets are about love of God and neighbor. The Jews today still teach and practice the love of God and neighbor. Therefore, their religion remains a true religion, founded on the same unchanging commandments, as entrusted to them from ancient times in Divine Revelation.
    Voris errs by reducing the Jewish Faith to one aspect of Jewish discipline, animal sacrifices at the Temple, ignoring the teachings of faith and morals. Voris claims that when the Romans destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem in the first century A.D., the Jewish Faith ceased to exist, and that what replaced the Jewish Faith was wholely a man-made religion.
    This claim by Voris is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church on Judaism.
    Neither the Catechism of the Catholic Church (cf. n. 839, 840), nor Vatican II (cf. Nostra Aetate), nor any magisterial documents, nor any Saints or Fathers or Doctors of the Church ever taught that the Jewish religion changed into a man-made religion when the Temple was destroyed. The basis for the Jewish Faith — practiced by Saints Zechariah and Elizabeth, by Saints Joachim and Ann, by Jesus and the Virgin Mary — is the truths of Divine Revelation, including the eternal moral law. These truths have not changed, and so the Jewish Faith, despite not explicitly acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah, continues to worship the one true God and to worship Christ implicitly, by love, faith, hope, and all the virtues, by the symbols that represent Christ in the Old Testament, and by looking forward do the arrival of the Messiah.
    This address by the holy father, Pope Benedict XVI, on the occasion of his visit to the synagogue of Rome, plainly shows that Judaism is not a false religion.
    Voris’ claim that Judaism is merely a man-made religion is based on his false claim that the religion depended on animal sacrifices at the Temple of Jerusalem. What if the Jews rebuild the Temple and resume animal sacrifices? Would this mean that the religion became a true religion again and ceased to be man-made? Voris’ position is foolish, because it in effect implies that animal sacrifice in a temple constitutes the basis for true religion. To the contrary, the basis for the Jewish Faith is, just as it always has been, the teachings of the law and the prophets.
    Voris further claims that the Old Covenant “was abandoned by the overwhelming number of people called to it.” He implies that, since the first century A.D., the Jews have not followed the Old Covenant.
    To the contrary, many Jews today and in past centuries faithful follow the teachings of the law and the prophets. The truth of that teaching has not changed. The basis of the Old Covenant was not animal sacrifices, but the law and the prophets. And the Jews today continue to worship the one true God, knowing Him by both the light of reason and the Divine Revelation of the Old Testament. Their religion continues to be a true religion established by God.
    Voris’ position on the Jewish Faith is a serious doctrinal error. He presents his errors in a very accessible video on YouTube as if he were teaching basic facts. He offers no theology books or articles to support his claims. He offers no theological arguments. He does not cite magisterial documents, nor Scripture, nor any Fathers, Saints, or Doctors of the Church. He cannot do so because his claims are incompatible with the teachings of Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium.
    RealCatholicTV does not offer orthodox Catholic teaching.
    UPDATE (10 Apr 2011)
    The diocese of Scranton, PA, has issued this statement on Michael Voris
    “The Diocese of Scranton has determined that Mr. Voris will not be allowed to speak in a Diocesan or parish facility. After these engagements were scheduled, the Diocese became aware of concerns about this individual’s views regarding other religious groups. In videos posted on the Internet, Mr. Voris makes comments that certainly can be interpreted as being insensitive to people of other faiths. The Catholic Church teaches us to respect all people, regardless of their faith tradition.
    Although the Diocese shares Mr. Voris’ support of efforts to protect human life, his extreme positions on other faiths are not appropriate and therefore the Diocese cannot host him.”
    You see Fisheater, we are all in this mess together, whether you like to admit it or not. Dominionists like Voris permeate the protestant church as well, with the exact same teaching. Jazzy is very correct. When the going gets tough, fake divisions drop off. I'll ask you again, on which side of Moses do you wish to stand?

    With your faith, you're falling into the same right/left paradigms that you know exist politically....and there are shills on all sides.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,446

    Default

    Reb ... See this is what I am talking about ... who cares what this guys says ...the blog of Ronald L. Conte Jr., Roman Catholic theologian and Bible translator.

    He is a Liberal nobody .... Has no Authority at all ...It is his opinion ONLY.

    This is all that matters Reb ....


    CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,446

    Default

    And yes there are Liberal Priests and Bishops that are TRYING their hardest to change Doctrines and Dogmas .... But It has not happened ...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,140

    Default

    You're making my point for me. When the fake shroud of dominionism is pulled away and people think for themselves, it becomes apparent that the church's dogma has not changed any hearts. It has only left double mindedness and confusion. When the authority of the church ceases to keep everyone's mouth shut, it becomes painfully apparent that the people in your faith system are all over the board, just like all the rest that you rail against.

    And you're posting the catechism and stating that "this is all that matters"....that is telling.

    Matthew 15:8-9, "These people draw near to Me honoring Me with their lips but their hearts are distant from Me. And in vain do they worship Me teaching as doctrine rules made by men."

    You're standing on the wrong side of Moses, Fisheater, there is grace and love on the other side, where the fullness of Torah stands. Human priesthood over God's people was never His intent...it was a default instituted by their request due to their hard hearts.

    Jer.7:22 For when I brought your forefathers out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices,23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in all the ways I command you, that it may go well with you.

    A direct relationship with Jesus as high priest was the intent, the people balked, they got Moses and a priestly/sacrificial system of men instead that only brought judgement and perversion.

    sounds familiar doesn't it?....just look around you.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,140

    Default

    You can't get there via a priest or a catechism. You have to do the hard work yourself...many lose their way, because they don't believe the whole message.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,140

    Default

    A bit of personal testimony. I don't consider it pride to say that I'm very good at my trade. Especially tile, stonemasonry and marble work. I'm creative, artistic and physically big and strong enough to work with those heavy mediums. I was very busy and relatively successful at it. My clientelle were millionaires and when they spoke of me they used my first name as a term of local prestige...."yes dear, I had (Reb) custom build the mosaic in my steam shower, then he built the fireplace, put the marble on the floor and custom built the granite counters."...dung like that.

    I was busy and in demand and it took all my time and energy. But I love Torah more than that. And I walked away from it to go back to my agragarian roots and spend more time in scripture. Now, I make much less money and do not have the same look of success as before. But my my wife and children, all seven of them (now that sounds catholic eh?), believe passionately save the two who are too very young. I have left all security and authority and popularity behind for Torah... and His word. It has cost me my reputation, my savings, anything I ever defined as security and many friends. And now more than ever, God is bringing hurting, disenchanted people across my path, because I'm available. No militant dominionism, no blog, no microphone....just some vegetables, an old truck and a bible.

    Now the easy route is to just accept the canned version of Jesus' gospel...and you can find one on every block...old ones, new ones, red ones, blue ones. But that's all any of them are....Jesus in a can. Come out of your can Fisheater...the Son is shining.

    You dis on all the "nobody's". That's me...nobody. Who's the pope...somebody? Yeshua....He's all in all. Seek Him alone. Get rid of all these...distractions.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    5,140

    Default

    1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    1 peter 2
    4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
    “Behold, I lay in Zion
    A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
    And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”[b]

    7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,[c]
    “The stone which the builders rejected
    Has become the chief cornerstone,”[d]

    8 and
    “A stone of stumbling
    And a rock of offense.”[e]

    They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
    9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •