How Wonderful is the Gospel

[Sojourner]

JGIG has never taught two gospels, nor have I.

Oh no? The words of JGIG herself:

lemon, I thought even you knew this:

The Gospel of the OT is that Messiah would come; the Gospel of the NT is that Messiah did come and the ramifications for mankind because of His Work.

-JGIG

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=4551738&postcount=106



Believing there is a gospel of the OT and a gospel of the NT is error and explains why she has wrong theology in many areas. I only pray people will read the scriptures for themselves and see her errors.

You are the one claiming two gospels - one God promised to Adam and Eve for all creation and the one you think God gave to Israel in becoming Israel.

You are making a false accusation. I back up my statements with proof. Where is your proof?


-Sojourner

[Emily]

Oh no? The words of JGIG herself:

lemon, I thought even you knew this:

The Gospel of the OT is that Messiah would come; the Gospel of the NT is that Messiah did come and the ramifications for mankind because of His Work.

-JGIG

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=4551738&postcount=106

Those are not two gospels. It is ONE gospel - spoken of before He fulfilled the promise (OT) and after He arrived.

Believing there is a gospel of the OT and a gospel of the NT is error and explains why she has wrong theology in many areas. I only pray people will read the scriptures for themselves and see her errors.

You misunderstand and see it as two gospels because you are caught up in the idea that what was given to Israel was the completion, it was not.

God did not give the Mosaic law to the whole world, only Israel.

He promised the messiah to the whole world - who is Jesus.

You are making a false accusation. I back up my statements with proof. Where is your proof?


-Sojourner

It starts in Genesis 3 and ends in the resurrection of Jesus.

I don't think you need for me to post the whole Bible, do you?

[JGIG]

Oh no? The words of JGIG herself:

lemon, I thought even you knew this:

The Gospel of the OT is that Messiah would come; the Gospel of the NT is that Messiah did come and the ramifications for mankind because of His Work.

-JGIG

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=4551738&postcount=106



Believing there is a gospel of the OT and a gospel of the NT is error and explains why she has wrong theology in many areas. I only pray people will read the scriptures for themselves and see her errors.


You are making a false accusation. I back up my statements with proof. Where is your proof?


-Sojourner

It's called shadows and Reality, Sojourner =o).

Hebrews 10:1
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Christ and His Complete Work were the fulfillment of that to which the Law pointed.

-JGIG

[JGIG]

So did anyone listen to the teaching?

[Sojourner]

It's called shadows and Reality, Sojourner =o).

Sorry, JGIG, you said there was a gospel in the OT and a gospel in the NT. That's two gospels.


The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, remember? THAT's the reality. There was no "OT gospel." The messiah's work was already done before the world began, and the church in the wilderness -- otherwise known as Israel -- heard the same gospel you did.

The reality is believers were saved by faith then, and expected to display the evidence of their faith by obeying the Torah. Just like now.


Elohim is no respecter of persons. Same gospel, same Torah. Same expectations then and now.

[JGIG]

Sorry, JGIG, you said there was a gospel in the OT and a gospel in the NT. That's two gospels.


The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, remember? THAT's the reality. There was no "OT gospel." The messiah's work was already done before the world began, and the church in the wilderness -- otherwise known as Israel -- heard the same gospel you did.

The reality is believers were saved by faith then, and expected to display the evidence of their faith by obeying the Torah. Just like now.


Elohim is no respecter of persons. Same gospel, same Torah. Same expectations then and now.

Sojourner, do you believe that there was a point on the timeline that Christ Jesus was actually nailed to the Cross and bled His Blood? Points on the timeline where Christ Jesus actually rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven and sat down in the Heavenly Tabernacle? Is there an actual point on the timeline where the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples? An actual point on the timeline when you placed your faith and trust in Christ and received His righteousness in lieu of your own (Rom. 5)?

The Law was until the Promised Seed came:

Galatians 3:15-29
15Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

23Before the coming of this faith,j we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If you want to go back to the Promise, it was in the Abrahamic Covenant where righteousness came by faith, just as it does in the New Covenant where the Gospel is preached in shadow-form. The Blood shed by Christ ratified the New Covenant in Reality that the blood of an animal ratified the Abrahamic Covenant in shadow.

Same Gospel; two presentations. One in shadow; the other being the Reality in Christ.

Sojourner, did you listen to the teaching?

-JGIG

[Shimri]

The Law was until the Promised Seed came:

We seem to have a conundrum then. Because the Gospels say that the law was until John. I do not think that you believe that the promised seed was John. So was the law until John, until Jesus, or perhaps you are missing a key word?

I also wonder which law Paul is talking about?

Thayers has the definition for nomos as follows:

1. anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command
a. of any law whatsoever
1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God
a. by the observance of which is approved of God
2. a precept or injunction
3. the rule of action prescribed by reason
b. of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents
c. the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, especially the precept concerning love
d. the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT.


So which one is it, and can you prove it using proper hermeneutics?

If you want to go back to the Promise, it was in the Abrahamic Covenant where righteousness came by faith, just as it does in the New Covenant where the Gospel is preached in shadow-form.

Could you please give us the Biblical description of the New Covenant?

[Emily]

Sorry, JGIG, you said there was a gospel in the OT and a gospel in the NT. That's two gospels.

The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, remember? THAT's the reality.There was no "OT gospel." The messiah's work was already done before the world began, and the church in the wilderness -- otherwise known as Israel -- heard the same gospel you did.

First, I believe that was a figurative statement as in God's plan was set before the foundation of the world and second, God is outside of time so for Him, time has no relevance, only to us. Before and after are relative terms directly related to the dimension of time.

The reality is believers were saved by faith then, and expected to display the evidence of their faith by obeying the Torah. Just like now.

There was no new creation to be born into so they may have been saved by faith but they had to maintain that faith until they died or they were lost. The same will be true in the great tribulation for believers because the body of Christ, the church, those born again into the new creation will no longer be present and that is why the urging to maintain their faith or be lost. There will be only two choices in the tribulation - worship the beast and take the mark of stand firm in the faith and be beheaded. The scripture says the WHOLE world worshipped the beast.

Elohim is no respecter of persons. Same gospel, same Torah. Same expectations then and now.

The gospel Jesus fulfilled was given in Genesis 3 to Adam and Eve.

The parts Israel played were the people preserved through whom the messiah would come and the keeper of the prophesies. They were also the people God worked through to show the world that He Is Real.

They, unfortunately, were also a very rebellious and prideful people so they needed to be given the written law to keep them from being a lousy witness to the world and God didn't have to keep disciplining them to maintain His glory and deserving of being called the chosen people.

1 Tim 1 and Romans 1 and 2 makes it more than clear that the law was not given to all mankind and it has is purpose.

The law was not given to Adam and Eve and if it were, God would have made it clear in scripture.

There is only one gospel with dispensations according to God's timeline.
That gospel is not what was given to Israel as they lived and Jesus death and resurrection did not just simply end the temple sacrifices. It was far more than that and until you see that, you are only arguing for a new religion supposedly started by Jesus rather than the miraculous new creation that He made possible as the second and last Adam.

[Al Swearengen]

Sorry, JGIG, you said there was a gospel in the OT and a gospel in the NT. That's two gospels.


The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, remember? THAT's the reality. There was no "OT gospel." The messiah's work was already done before the world began, and the church in the wilderness -- otherwise known as Israel -- heard the same gospel you did.

The reality is believers were saved by faith then, and expected to display the evidence of their faith by obeying the Torah. Just like now.


Elohim is no respecter of persons. Same gospel, same Torah. Same expectations then and now.

Yup.

Despite all the traditional arguments to the contrary in this present time, it should be an established matter since He tells us in no uncertain terms all through Scripture what we are to expect during His Reign:


Isa 2:2 And it shall be in the latter days that the mountain of the House of יהוה is established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills. And all nations shall flow to it.
Isa 2:3 And many peoples shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of יהוה, to the House of the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, and let Him teach1 us His ways1, and let us walk in His paths1, for out of Tsiyon comes forth the Torah1, and the Word1 of יהוה from Yerushalayim." Footnote: 1His ways, His paths, the teaching and the Word of יהוה are used synonymously.


Isa 42:4 "He does not become weak or crushed, until He has established right-ruling in the earth. And the coastlands wait for His Torah."



Mal 4:4 "Remember the Torah of Mosheh, My servant, which I commanded him in Ḥorĕḇ for all Yisra’ĕl – laws and right-rulings.

[Al Swearengen]

Oh no? The words of JGIG herself:

lemon, I thought even you knew this:

The Gospel of the OT is that Messiah would come; the Gospel of the NT is that Messiah did come and the ramifications for mankind because of His Work.

-JGIG

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=4551738&postcount=106



Believing there is a gospel of the OT and a gospel of the NT is error and explains why she has wrong theology in many areas. I only pray people will read the scriptures for themselves and see her errors.


-Sojourner

Amein.

Another area she fumbles horribly on is when she is asked what she repented from. Last time she answered me it was "from trying to establish my own righteousness". Really? THAT's true repentance???

Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us, to redeem us from all lawlessness1 and to cleanse for Himself a people, His own possession, ardent for good works.2Footnotes: 1Lawlessness is a synonym for sin (1 John 3:4), Mt. 1:21, Acts 3:19 & 26, Acts 26:18, Rom. 6:1-22, Eph. 2:1-10, 1 John 3:8, Titus 3:5.2Mt. 16:27.

Tit 2:15 Speak these matters, urge, and reprove1 with all authority. Let no one despise you. Footnote: 1Or confute.

She runs from defining SIN as Scripture defines it. That's when you get a 1000 word treatise of artful dodging and distraction; but never and answer to a simple question.