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Thread: How Wonderful is the Gospel

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimri View Post
    Okay, but what exactly is the New Covenant? Jeremiah coins the phrase. Hebrews quotes Jeremiah. Ezekiel and Isaiah describe its effect, as does Moses. You say a solid understanding of what the New Covenant is is necessary, yet you have not told us what it is. Do you understand what the New Covenant is?

    If I asked what you feel has changed, we might be able to discuss the list of verses you gave. But your bunch of verses do not answer the question of what the New Covenant is.

    Do you wish to try again?
    The New Covenant is the Covenant in which this happens:
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”
    The New Covenant is God providing rest for us through the Work of Christ. The commandments of God after the Cross?
    1 John 3:19-24
    19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

    23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

    24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
    That is the Law of the New Covenant: Believe on the One He has sent (also in John 6:28-29 from the mouth of Christ Himself) and love one another.

    Elsewhere in the New Covenant Scriptures we are told that love fulfills God's Law:
    Romans 13:8-10
    8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


    Galatians 5:14
    14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
    A commenter at JGIG’s facebook page asked this excellent question out of frustration:
    Andrea wrote,
    “But I can’t love because it is a command – Because I am under grace. Do see how you guys make absolutely NO SENSE?!”
    Andrea was referring to the quoting of the 1 John 3:19-24 passage posted above.

    It’s a great question! If we’re not under Law, but after the Cross God commands us to love – sometimes referred to as the Law of Christ - what’s up with that?!

    Here’s the really cool thing: Love is a Fruit of the Spirit as well as a command.

    Though love is a command, if you don’t do it, (which would be sin), you’re already forgiven. If you are in Christ, you are not under law, and where there is no law, there is no sin (Romans 4:15, 5:13).

    God makes clear to us that sin and the Law are dealt with from two angles: the sins of the world were forgiven at the Cross (John 1:29, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19, 1 John 2:2), and we who are in Christ are dead to the Law (Romans 7:1-4, Galatians 2:19).

    Furthermore, as if that weren’t enough (!), God gives the Righteousness of Christ to us as a gift (Romans 5:15-21). These are the Truths of the Gospel that establish the position of the believer in the Reality of Christ and in the sight of God!

    That said – If you are in Christ and are led by His Spirit, love will be a fruit produced in you.

    Do fruit-producing plants strive to produce fruit? No . . . they produce fruit because they are attached to the vine/tree/plant which nourishes them.

    Fruit is the by-product of LIFE.

    If you are alive in Christ and abiding in Him, allowing His Holy Spirit to live through you, love is an unavoidable by-product and fulfills the law!

    Commanding the one in Christ to love is like commanding a person who has life in them to breathe because it’s a law. If a person has life in them, they automatically breathe – it’s something that we just DO.

    If we are in Christ, loving others is something that we just DO.

    To command those in Christ to love is a ridiculously-unfair-in-our-favor-win-win-deal!

    By resting in Christ and letting Him live His Life through us, God’s command to love is obeyed (John 15:12, 1 John 3:23) and the Law is fulfilled (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14).

    That is Grace.

    Believing in the One He has sent and loving one another is the New Covenant.
    \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
    Grace and Peace,
    -JGIG


    "If you've lost sight of the Cross in your journey, it's time to alter course."

    www.joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGIG View Post
    The New Covenant is the Covenant in which this happens:
    [INDENT]“For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    Oh brother.



    Scripture TELLS US PLAINLY what the new covenant is.



    Heb 8:8 Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:
    I will put My laws into their minds, and I will write them on their hearts.
    And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.





    The New Covenant is His LAW written on the hearts and minds of his people.





    You sure like to convolute, don't you? It's really not hard to see or understand when you let scripture speak for itself.




    -Sojourner

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Oh brother.
    Actually, I'm a sister .

    Scripture TELLS US PLAINLY what the new covenant is.

    Heb 8:8 Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:
    I will put My laws into their minds, and I will write them on their hearts.
    And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

    The New Covenant is His LAW written on the hearts and minds of his people.


    Two things:
    1. His Law after the Cross is clearly stated in 1 John 3:19-24:

      1 John 3:19-24
      19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

      21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

      23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

      24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

    2. The New Covenant is not limited to Law; it includes the complete and utter forgiveness from God of our sins:

      Hebrews 8:6-13 (ESV)
      6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

      8 For he finds fault with them when he says:

      “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
      when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
      and with the house of Judah,

      9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
      on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

      For they did not continue in my covenant,
      and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.

      10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
      after those days, declares the Lord:
      I will put my laws into their minds,
      and write them on their hearts,
      and I will be their God,
      and they shall be my people.

      11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
      and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
      for they shall all know me,
      from the least of them to the greatest.

      12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
      and I will remember their sins no more.”


      13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
    You sure like to convolute, don't you?
    I'm content to let God and the reader judge between us.

    It's really not hard to see or understand when you let scripture speak for itself.
    That's really true. Context is so important.



    Grace and Peace,
    -JGIG


    "If you've lost sight of the Cross in your journey, it's time to alter course."

    www.joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com

  4. #24
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    There you go again, JGIG. Ever thought of running for office? lol.



    It's really not all that complicated. Scripture states it plainly. It even mentions it verbatim TWICE in scripture (Heb 8 AND Jer 31), just so you don't try to wriggle your way around it (which you alway seem to try to do anyway).




    LET'S SAY IT ALL TOGETHER NOW:


    Heb 8:8,10 Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

    ... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.




    The New Covenant is His LAW written on the hearts and minds of his people.



    Yes, context is key. Hebrews is quoting Jeremiah. The new covenant is Torah on our heart.
    And the covenant is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.


    Which house are you in?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGIG View Post
    1. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
      after those days, declares the Lord:
      I will put my laws into their minds,
      and write them on their hearts,
      and I will be their God,
      and they shall be my people.
    -JGIG
    Hard to spin cycle that!

    Or this:

    Isa 8:20 To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no light in them.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Oh no? The words of JGIG herself:

    lemon, I thought even you knew this:

    The Gospel of the OT is that Messiah would come; the Gospel of the NT is that Messiah did come and the ramifications for mankind because of His Work.

    -JGIG

    http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=4551738&postcount=106



    Believing there is a gospel of the OT and a gospel of the NT is error and explains why she has wrong theology in many areas. I only pray people will read the scriptures for themselves and see her errors.


    -Sojourner
    Amein.

    Another area she fumbles horribly on is when she is asked what she repented from. Last time she answered me it was "from trying to establish my own righteousness". Really? THAT's true repentance???

    Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us, to redeem us from all lawlessness1 and to cleanse for Himself a people, His own possession, ardent for good works.2Footnotes: 1Lawlessness is a synonym for sin (1 John 3:4), Mt. 1:21, Acts 3:19 & 26, Acts 26:18, Rom. 6:1-22, Eph. 2:1-10, 1 John 3:8, Titus 3:5.2Mt. 16:27.

    Tit 2:15 Speak these matters, urge, and reprove1 with all authority. Let no one despise you. Footnote: 1Or confute.

    She runs from defining SIN as Scripture defines it. That's when you get a 1000 word treatise of artful dodging and distraction; but never and answer to a simple question.

  7. #27
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    Lightbulb To all the self-righteous in the house!

    As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one". Romans 3:10

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyE View Post
    As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one". Romans 3:10

    Amein. Some are just trying to establish how SCRIPTURE actually defines sin. A 'fleeting' question for some engaged in this topic; but quite boldly stated in the Word.

    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    There you go again, JGIG. Ever thought of running for office? lol.

    It's really not all that complicated. Scripture states it plainly. It even mentions it verbatim TWICE in scripture (Heb 8 AND Jer 31), just so you don't try to wriggle your way around it (which you alway seem to try to do anyway).

    LET'S SAY IT ALL TOGETHER NOW:

    Heb 8:8,10 Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

    ... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

    The New Covenant is His LAW written on the hearts and minds of his people.

    Yes, context is key. Hebrews is quoting Jeremiah. The new covenant is Torah on our heart.

    And the covenant is with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

    Which house are you in?
    The New Covenant is not a re-hash of the Old Covenant. You're right - Hebrews 8 (and Hebrews 10) quote from Jeremiah 31 - and quote from quite a bit more of it than you posted.

    Was the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah? Yes. But so was redemption promised to all mankind after the Fall, and the Scriptures are clear that Gentiles who believe on Christ are grafted into Him in the way of faith, and as such partake in Abraham's blessing.
    1 Corinthians 1:20
    20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ.
    It's not a matter who you are or what law you follow (Mosaic, Buddhist, Islamic, Hindu, etc., etc.), it always boils down to the Covenant to which you belong.

    Are you in First Adam or are you in Second Adam?

    Romans 5 tells us that sin and death comes to all because of the sin of one man, 'First Adam'.

    Romans 5 also tells us that Righteousness and Life come as a free gift to those who put their faith and trust in the 'Second Adam', Christ Jesus.

    Imputed sin seems unfair - why should we suffer for the sin of one man? Don't feel like that gets you off the hook - God gave the Law so that sin would increase (which is a whole other discussion - if you are after a reduction of sin in your life, why do you put yourself back under that which was given to increase sin in the world - it actually stirs up sin!) - so that every mouth would be shut - we are all without excuse, as all have sinned.

    Imputed sin, unfair though it may seem, opens the door to imputed Righteousness - equally unfair, but in our favor. And there is nothing that we can do to improve upon or to maintain the Gift of Christ's perfect Righteousness. When the Gift is received, forgiveness is given, Righteousness is imputed, and the Holy Spirit is given - New Life in/through/because of the Work of Christ!

    The New Covenant is the Covenant in which this happens:

    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”


    The New Covenant is God providing rest for us through the Work of Christ. There is nothing that you can do to add to the Gift of Righteousness that is in Christ; there is nothing that you can do to take away from the Gift of Righteousness that is in Christ - it is a perfect righteousness.

    The Laws of God after the Cross are these:

    1 John 3:19-24
    19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

    23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

    24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

    That is the Law of the New Covenant: Believe on the One He has sent (also in John 6:28-29 from the mouth of Christ Himself) and love one another.

    Even that New Covenant Law, as I posted earlier, is something that we can rest in, because if we are in Christ, indwelt by His Spirit (Ephesians 1), and if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law (Galatians 5) and bear the Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5). The first of those Fruits? Love . Again, even the commands of the New Covenant are fulfilled by Christ; believe on He Who God has sent (Christ Jesus), and love one another. If we have His Spirit, we will love - it's something that those alive in Christ just do.

    If you choose to live under/in the Old Covenant (that which was given to actually increase transgression, stir up sin, and show mankind how he/she constantly falls short), that is certainly your choice.

    I choose to rest in Christ and in His New Covenant .

    Blessings,
    -JGIG


    "If you've lost sight of the Cross in your journey, it's time to alter course."

    www.joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyE View Post
    As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one". Romans 3:10
    Amen, Tony.

    I like this one, too:



    Grace and Peace,
    -JGIG


    "If you've lost sight of the Cross in your journey, it's time to alter course."

    www.joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com

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