How Wonderful is the Gospel

[Al Swearengen]

Altemu, your focus is on sin and Law.

-JGIG

Lol. Because I choose to obey Who died for me? To desire to live apart from the same sins that caused Him to die?

Your doctrine reminds me all the time of these verses:


2Pe 2:19 promising them freedom, though themselves being slaves of corruption – for one is a slave to whatever overcomes him.

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command1 delivered unto them. Footnote: 1The singular "command" often means "commands" – see 1 Tim. 6:14, Dt. 17:20, Ps. 19:8.

2Pe 2:22 For them the proverb has proved true, "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud."

[JGIG]

JGIG, what was the Gospel preached unto them?

Heb 4:2 For indeed the Good News was brought to us as well as to them, but the word which they heard did not profit them, not having been mixed with belief in those who heard it.

What was ther Gospel Yeshua was proclaiming before the cross?

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Let's keep in mind that there was no New Testament to draw from.

We've been over this, Altemu; the 'Gospel preached unto them' referred to in Heb. 4 is the Promised Land. Why did Israel not enter in? Because they didn't keep Law?

No.

Because they didn't believe that God would do what He promised.

Because of their unbelief they wandered in the wilderness.

It's a type/shadow; we enter into God's Promise of Redemption by faith - the Law has nothing to do with it. Neither does the Law have anything to do with maintaining that Redemption - the source of the Redemption is the Gift of Righteousness (Romans 5). In Christ, we are the perfect Righteousness of God (2 Cor. 5). There is nothing that we can do to add to perfect righteousness; nothing that we can do to subtract from perfect righteousness. It is PERFECT because it is the Righteousness of Christ!

That is why Paul, the consumate keeper of the Law, wrote this (note: contextual 'wall of text' otherwise known as Scripture to follow):

Philippians 3
Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is no trouble to me and is safe for you.

2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision,

who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him,

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

-JGIG

[JGIG]

Lol. Because I choose to obey Who died for me? To desire to live apart from the same sins that caused Him to die?

Your doctrine reminds me all the time of these verses:


2Pe 2:19 promising them freedom, though themselves being slaves of corruption – for one is a slave to whatever overcomes him.

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first.

2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command1 delivered unto them. Footnote: 1The singular "command" often means "commands" – see 1 Tim. 6:14, Dt. 17:20, Ps. 19:8.

2Pe 2:22 For them the proverb has proved true, "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud."

Really? The set-apart command(s) are these after the Cross:

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

And according to the Scriptures, if we walk in love, we are fulfilling the Law (Romans 13).

Now compare the 2 Peter passage you posted above with this:

1 Timothy 1:8-11
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Those who believe on the One God has sent and love one another are not the lawless and disobedient; they are the adopted of God; co-heirs with Christ Jesus, seated in the heavenlies with Him (Eph. 1) .

Busy rest of the day. 'Til later,
-JGIG

[Al Swearengen]

We've been over this, Altemu; the 'Gospel preached unto them' referred to in Heb. 4 is the Promised Land. -JGIG

Back to your two-gospel theory? 'Splain this Lucy...what were the ORACLES given to them in the wilderness to give to US?

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Rom_3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

1Pe_4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Wow. Seems kinda important, huh?

[Al Swearengen]

Really? The set-apart command(s) are these after the Cross:-JGIG

Hmmm. Yeshua must have had a strange repentance message according to you; since He said this before the cross:
Mat 4:17 From that time Yahshua began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

[Emily]

Back to your two-gospel theory? 'Splain this Lucy...what were the ORACLES given to them in the wilderness to give to US?

What two-gospel theory?

Yours?

God said in the beginning what He would do to accomplish reconciliation between Him and His creation. He promised Adam and Eve.

Jesus fulfilled that promise.

In the interim, God chose out a people to work through to:

1. Show the world that He Is Real.
2. Set up a program for them to remain in fellowship with Him through substitutionary sacrifices
3. Receive and protect the prophesies that would allow them to recognize the one who would fulfill that promise.
4. The group through whom the messiah could be born.

Now, if you want to ignore the fulfillment of the promise given to Adam and Eve and keep that no longer needed program going then you are the one setting up a second Gospel because Jesus Christ fulfilled the only one God set up and fulfilled.

[Al Swearengen]

What two-gospel theory?

Yours?

No. JGIG's as was pointed out earlier.

He has ONE Gospel.

You wanna address what I posted?

'Splain this selah...what were the ORACLES given to them in the wilderness to give to US? And fron SINAI???????

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Rom_3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

1Pe_4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[saulteux]

Faith + works.

[Al Swearengen]

Faith + works.

Faith then works.

Jas 2:14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.

Jas 2:20 But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?

Rev 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I would that you were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 "So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you out of My mouth.

[saulteux]

Faith then works.

Jas 2:14 My brothers, what use is it for anyone to say he has belief but does not have works? This belief is unable to save him.

Jas 2:20 But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?

Rev 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I would that you were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 "So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am going to vomit you out of My mouth.

Nope. Faith + works. If you believe that you MUST follow the Torah in order to be saved, that's "faith + works".

You really look at the leaf, but refuse to see the tree.