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Thread: The Christian Passover

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    Don't you understand the problem here???

    You previously stated:





    If you believe that God asks you to observe the Passover, then you are saying that God wants you to observe it in a way that violates His own requirements for it because you have said that you can't offer sacrifices. Show me exactly where God says that it's ok to observe Passover without sacrifices.

    I understand your position and have thought a lot about it also. One thing we need to keep in mind is we were told ahead of time the daily sacrifice in this age would cease (Dan 11:31). This prophecy was given before Christ about a time after Christ, and yet our Messiah tells the disciples he desires to eat the Passover with them, and to do it in remembrance of Him. As we all agree, this is a command not just given to disciples in his presence at the time. It is a command for his disciples through the ages.

    Jesus calls it Passover, and He commands us to do it remembrance of Him. That He is a priest in the order of Melchizedek and He is called the Passover lamb must satisfy our Heavenly Father in terms of a priest offering a passover sacrifice on our behalf. That it isn't an earthly animal with earthly Levitical priest doesn't mean we shouldn't observe the appointed time. We are commanded to observe it, and should do with thanks acknowledging Yahushua's sacrifice for us.
    Psalms 119:19 I am a sojourner in the earth: Hide not thy commandments from me.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    I understand your position and have thought a lot about it also. One thing we need to keep in mind is we were told ahead of time the daily sacrifice in this age would cease (Dan 11:31). This prophecy was given before Christ about a time after Christ, and yet our Messiah tells the disciples he desires to eat the Passover with them, and to do it in remembrance of Him. As we all agree, this is a command not just given to disciples in his presence at the time. It is a command for his disciples through the ages.

    Jesus calls it Passover, and He commands us to do it remembrance of Him. That He is a priest in the order of Melchizedek and He is called the Passover lamb must satisfy our Heavenly Father in terms of a priest offering a passover sacrifice on our behalf. That it isn't an earthly animal with earthly Levitical priest doesn't mean we shouldn't observe the appointed time. We are commanded to observe it, and should do with thanks acknowledging Yahushua's sacrifice for us.
    Here is the problem. When God gave the Law to Israel there wasn't an option to ignore parts of it. They were commanded to keep all of it:

    Deut 31:12 Assemble the people, men, women, and little ones, and the sojourner within your towns, that they may hear and learn to fear the LORD your God, and be careful to do all the words of this law,

    Now that didn't mean that God didn't make provisions, in some cases, for an alternate way to make a required sacrifice. For example:

    Lev 5:11 “But if he cannot afford two turtledoves or two pigeons, then he shall bring as his offering for the sin that he has committed a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering. He shall put no oil on it and shall put no frankincense on it, for it is a sin offering.

    God made allowances, in some cases, where a person who couldn't afford the required offering could make an alternate offering. But in every case like this an offering was still required. So does God make any kind of allowance for the Passover? Actually, yes He does:

    Num 9:10 “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If any one of you or of your descendants is unclean through touching a dead body, or is on a long journey, he shall still keep the Passover to the LORD.
    Num 9:11 In the second month on the fourteenth day at twilight they shall keep it. They shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

    So anyone who was unclean or away on a long journey at the time of Passover in the first month of the year was required to observe Passover on the 14th day of the second month. But this was the only allowance God made concerning the observance of the Passover. All Israel was required to eat of the sacrifical lamb at Passover. There was no option.

    Now when we get to the NT, I believe Christ ate the normal Passover meal at the Last Supper. But the Gospels do not specifically mention anything at all about eating the sacrifical lamb. The only things specifically mentioned are the bread and the cup:

    Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.
    Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

    Notice two important things.

    First, Christ says "Do this in remembrance of me". Do what? Observe the Passover? No. He means to eat the bread and drink the cup, the only two things that are specifically mentioned. The fact that these are the only two things to be consumed "in remembrance" of Him is clearly shown in 1Cor 11:23-26.

    Second, Christ says that the cup is representative of the New Covenant in His blood. The Old Covenant, the Law of Moses, was to end at Christ's death and the New Covenant was to begin. The Passover is a symbol of the Old Covenant and the Lord's Supper is a symbol of the New Covenant.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    If you believe that God asks you to observe the Passover, then you are saying that God wants you to observe it in a way that violates His own requirements for it because you have said that you can't offer sacrifices. Show me exactly where God says that it's ok to observe Passover without sacrifices.
    Luke 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
    Luke 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

    Comment: the passover in these verses is the paschal lamb, i.e. the lamb the Israelites were accustomed to slay and eat on the fourteenth day of the month of Nisan

    Luke 22:9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
    Luke 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

    Comment: Water was for foot washing

    Luke 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
    Luke 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
    Luke 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

    Question: What did they make ready? The Day? Or the lamb that was sacrificed? It was the lamb.

    Luke 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

    Comment: Jesus waited for the specific, appointed hour to arrive to observe the OT Passover

    Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
    Luke 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

    Comment: Jesus ate the OT Passover lamb and it was the last time that it was required to be kept in that manner.

    Luke 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

    Comment: It is clear here that Jesus and the Apostles kept the OT Passover with a lamb sacrifice. Then immediately after that was completed, He instituted the NT Passover requirements by changing the symbols to foot washing, wine and unleavened bread. John’s account more clearly shows the timeline:
    John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

    Jesus changed how the Passover was to be observed. The Passover of the OT Pictured His coming. The Passover of the NT remembers what He did in the memorial (once a year remembrance on the appointed day, not every week). The symbols were changed to reflect the fulfillment. The day on which it was to be observed was never abrogated.

    As far as Paul never teaching the observance of the Holy Days, that’s just not correct. There are enough examples in the NT to show they (converts to "Christianity") were indeed being taught and were keeping God’s Holy Days.

    And what about the claim that the early NT church didn’t observe the Passover, but instead the Lord’s Supper? Certainly history does show that Passover was being observed by the Apostles and the disciples.

    The Catholic writer Eusebius recorded that Polycrates of Ephesus, around 195 A.D. wrote the following to the Roman Bishop Victor who wanted all who professed Christ to change Passover from the 14th of Nisan to Sunday:

    We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicea, or the blessed Papirius, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate from heaven, when he shall rise from the dead ? All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man'...I could mention the bishops who were present, whom I summoned at your desire; whose names, should I write them, would constitute a great multitude. And they, beholding my littleness, gave their consent to the letter, knowing that I did not bear my gray hairs in vain, but had always governed my life by the Lord Jesus (Eusebius. The History of the Church, Book V, Chapter XXIV, Verses 2-7 . Translated by A. Cushman McGiffert. Digireads.com Publishing, Stilwell (KS), 2005, p. 114)
    The Quartodeciman controversy explicitly shows the collision between what was ordained by Jesus and kept by the apostles and disciples and the heresies that early on arose in the church.

    Grace and Peace to you

    John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Ecclesiastes 12
    13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    Luke 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
    Luke 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

    Comment: the passover in these verses is the paschal lamb, i.e. the lamb the Israelites were accustomed to slay and eat on the fourteenth day of the month of Nisan

    Luke 22:9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
    Luke 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

    Comment: Water was for foot washing

    Luke 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
    Luke 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
    Luke 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

    Question: What did they make ready? The Day? Or the lamb that was sacrificed? It was the lamb.

    Luke 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

    Comment: Jesus waited for the specific, appointed hour to arrive to observe the OT Passover
    I have no issues with any of your above comments regarding these Scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
    Luke 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

    Comment: Jesus ate the OT Passover lamb and it was the last time that it was required to be kept in that manner.
    You may want to discuss this with Sojourner because I believe he has a different opinion on the matter, and I'm sure you already know that I disagree with calling the Lord's Supper the Passover. After Christ's death this "remembrance" of Him is not once referred to in the NT as any kind of Passover.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    Luke 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

    Comment: It is clear here that Jesus and the Apostles kept the OT Passover with a lamb sacrifice. Then immediately after that was completed, He instituted the NT Passover requirements by changing the symbols to foot washing, wine and unleavened bread. John’s account more clearly shows the timeline:
    John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

    Jesus changed how the Passover was to be observed. The Passover of the OT Pictured His coming. The Passover of the NT remembers what He did in the memorial (once a year remembrance on the appointed day, not every week). The symbols were changed to reflect the fulfillment. The day on which it was to be observed was never abrogated.
    Christ didn't once say or imply that He was changing the Passover. Christ said "do this" referring to the bread and the cup. He didn't say to observe the Passover in this new way.

    And you haven't mentioned that a key part of this memorial that Christ institutes is the announcement of the New Covenant in His blood. Christ's death is the beginning of the New Covenant. The Passover is part of the Old Covenant. Every time someone celebrates the Lord's Supper they are proclaiming the New Covenant.

    When you read 1Cor 11:17-34 it is clear that the Lord's Supper is not being observed only once a year but "when you come together" which most likely is at least once a week. Just a casual reading of this Scripture can leave you with no doubt about this.

    I know you like to dismiss these verses because Paul is criticizing the Corinthians but his criticism has absolutely nothing to do with when they are observing the Lord's Supper. Paul not only doesn't criticize them for when they observe it but gives his approval for a regular observance of the Lord's Supper ("when you come together", v. 34).

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    As far as Paul never teaching the observance of the Holy Days, that’s just not correct. There are enough examples in the NT to show they (converts to "Christianity") were indeed being taught and were keeping God’s Holy Days.
    Maybe you could list these examples so we could discuss them.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    And what about the claim that the early NT church didn’t observe the Passover, but instead the Lord’s Supper? Certainly history does show that Passover was being observed by the Apostles and the disciples.

    The Catholic writer Eusebius recorded that Polycrates of Ephesus, around 195 A.D. wrote the following to the Roman Bishop Victor who wanted all who professed Christ to change Passover from the 14th of Nisan to Sunday:
    I am surprised that you would use a Catholic writer to try to justify your position. I would rather think that Scripture would have more weight:

    Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

    This breaking of bread on the first day of the week is clearly not just getting together to have a meal:

    1Cor 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

  5. #45
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    sonofJAC,

    As we have previously agreed, we do have common ground and we should strive for unity in the Body of Christ. So with that in mind let me make something clear. Even though I still hold to my beliefs stated in the previous posts, I also believe that you have the freedom in Christ to observe the Lord's Supper (or what you call the Christian Passover) in the way you have stated in the OP and only once a year on Passover.

    Although Christ did say to "do this in remembrance of me" He didn't give His disciples specific instructions on when to observe it so I believe Christians are given the freedom to decide when they wish to observe it.

    And I will go farther and say that to some extent believers should have the freedom to observe it in different ways. Some churches observe it every week and others once a month and still others, like you, once a year. Some use wine and others grape juice, some use unleavened bread and others use leavened.

    The main point is that believers should come together in unity around the bread and the cup, representing Christ's body which was broken for us and His shed blood, in order to remember what He did for us and to look forward to His coming again.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    After Christ's death this "remembrance" of Him is not once referred to in the NT as any kind of Passover.
    1Cor 5:6-8 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    Paul is instructing the Gentile converts at Corinth the proper way to keep the Feast (not unworthily). Why would Paul instruct Gentile Greeks in the keeping of the Holy Days and Feasts if they weren’t supposed to be keeping them? Why didn’t he teach them Easter or the Lord’s Supper or Lent?
    The answer is obvious. The NT church was commanded to keep and observe these days.
    There is more in the NT to support the keeping of the Sabbath, Feasts and Holy Days than there is for the observing of other days including the first day of the week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    Christ didn't once say or imply that He was changing the Passover. Christ said "do this" referring to the bread and the cup. He didn't say to observe the Passover in this new way.
    I’ve already shown He did. Jesus showed the importance of the commanded commemoration of His death on the appointed time.

    Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
    Matt 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
    John 15:12-14 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    The Passover is part of the Old Covenant. Every time someone celebrates the Lord's Supper they are proclaiming the New Covenant.
    Please provide scriptural support for your statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    When you read 1Cor 11:17-34 it is clear that the Lord's Supper is not being observed only once a year but "when you come together" which most likely is at least once a week. Just a casual reading of this Scripture can leave you with no doubt about this.
    How do you know “when you come together” means at least once a week? It is not clear at all that’s what it means. In fact it is more clear that it is speaking of the annual memorial (explanation below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    I know you like to dismiss these verses because Paul is criticizing the Corinthians but his criticism has absolutely nothing to do with when they are observing the Lord's Supper. Paul not only doesn't criticize them for when they observe it but gives his approval for a regular observance of the Lord's Supper ("when you come together", v. 34).
    How do you “know” this? Because honestly my friend, your knowledge and your assumptions are not correct. If you read the whole of 1Cor 11, you will see that Paul is actually discussing the observance of the coming together for the Passover service. Remember this epistle was to Gentiles who do not have a history of observing the Passover or the Feasts and Holy Days, they are learning them and here being corrected.

    1Cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

    What ordinances? Jewish things? Absolutely not, for Paul fought against the Jewish traditions, but He taught those things that were to be kept and observed.

    1Cor 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.
    1Cor 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
    1Cor 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
    1Cor 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place [to observe the NT Passover with the new Passover symbols], this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

    V 19 Paul identifies that there are heresies rising in the congregation.
    V20 Paul emphatically states that this Passover observation is not the keeping of the “Lord’s Supper” (is this the heresy he is addressing?).

    1Cor 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
    1Cor 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

    Some in the Corinthian church were observing the solemn Passover service as a banquet or party. Paul slaps this practice down uncompromisingly.

    1Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, [The observance of the NT Passover] That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread [Paul identifies when this observance should be kept – one the same night in which He was betrayed’ i.e. the Fourteenth Day]:
    1Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    Remembrance is a memorial. Memorials are not celebrated daily or weekly or monthly. They are a yearly observance.
    See https://www.teknia.com/greek-dictionary/anamnesis

    1Cor 11:25-26 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

    “For as often” you make the assumption that one can perform this memorial observance every week and make the assumption that it is on Sunday. The text nowhere indicates this; rather it is speaking of the yearly commemoration on the Fourteenth Day.

    1Cor 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    1Cor 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    1Cor 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
    1Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
    1Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
    1Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
    1Cor 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
    1Cor 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

    V 34: The Memorial observance of the Passover is not a meal or celebratory observance. It is a solemn remembrance of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

    John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Ecclesiastes 12
    13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    Maybe you could list these examples so we could discuss them.
    That is outside of this discussion and should be a different topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    I am surprised that you would use a Catholic writer to try to justify your position. I would rather think that Scripture would have more weight:
    It is a reference to an historical document. Scripture does not address the early NT church after the first century other than in the book of Revelation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.
    This breaking of bread on the first day of the week is clearly not just getting together to have a meal:
    Absolutely it is! And, this event buttresses what I’ve been saying. Notice the italicized word in v 7 is day. It doesn’t appear in the original text. It is not so much that this occurred on the first day of the week, but on the first day of the Weeks! The first day of the weeks is the Wave Sheaf Offering Day that is the day after the weekly Sabbath (yes, a Sunday) during the Days of Unleavened Bread. This was a special occasion, not the keeping of a regular Sunday. This day starts the 50 day count to Pentecost (another of those OT Holy Days that the NT church kept). Here the Apostle Paul was ready to depart on a journey, he obviously wouldn’t travel on the Sabbath, so when the Sabbath day was over (at sunset) and the first day began (as it was getting dark), Paul kept talking all the way past midnight. Seeing it was the first day of the week and not the Sabbath, they brought in all the food and prepared a meal for everyone there… a pot-luck!!!!
    A similar event that occurred on another Wave Sheaf Offering Day is recorded on 1Cor 16:2.

    John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Ecclesiastes 12
    13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    sonofJAC,

    As we have previously agreed, we do have common ground and we should strive for unity in the Body of Christ. So with that in mind let me make something clear. Even though I still hold to my beliefs stated in the previous posts, I also believe that you have the freedom in Christ to observe the Lord's Supper (or what you call the Christian Passover) in the way you have stated in the OP and only once a year on Passover.

    Although Christ did say to "do this in remembrance of me" He didn't give His disciples specific instructions on when to observe it so I believe Christians are given the freedom to decide when they wish to observe it.

    And I will go farther and say that to some extent believers should have the freedom to observe it in different ways. Some churches observe it every week and others once a month and still others, like you, once a year. Some use wine and others grape juice, some use unleavened bread and others use leavened.

    The main point is that believers should come together in unity around the bread and the cup, representing Christ's body which was broken for us and His shed blood, in order to remember what He did for us and to look forward to His coming again.
    Yes, we have common ground. Although we see things from a different perspective, neither one of us can or should judge the other. I have members in my own family whom I truly love that see these things from your perspective. All I can do is let my light shine and I am ready to answer their questions as they come. Interestingly, those questions have been coming more frequently as of late.
    I really mean it when I say...

    Grace and Peace to you

    John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Ecclesiastes 12
    13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    1Cor 5:6-8 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    Paul is instructing the Gentile converts at Corinth the proper way to keep the Feast (not unworthily). Why would Paul instruct Gentile Greeks in the keeping of the Holy Days and Feasts if they weren’t supposed to be keeping them? Why didn’t he teach them Easter or the Lord’s Supper or Lent?
    The answer is obvious. The NT church was commanded to keep and observe these days.
    In 1Cor 5:6-8 Paul is in NO WAY attempting to instruct Gentile converts at Corinth in the proper way to keep the Passover and the feast of unleavened bread, unless you believe that the unleavened bread that they were to eat is made of sincerity and truth.

    It is absolutely clear that Paul is only using the Passover and the feast of unleavened bread as a word picture and an illustration of what he has been telling the Corinthians in all of chapter 5:

    1Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.

    1Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-

    1Cor 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler-not even to eat with such a one.

    All of chapter 5 is devoted to this one topic - sexual immorality in the church, and when Paul uses the Passover and the feast of unleavened bread, he assumes the Corinthians are familiar with both and he only uses them as a way to illustrate his topic about sexual immorality:

    1Cor 5:7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

    1Cor 5:13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

    Paul is not instructing the Corinthians at all about the feast but he is using their existing knowledge of the feast to associate leaven with the sin of sexual immorality and their need to purge it from among them.

    It is not at all unreasonable to assume that the church in Corinth knew about leaven and the feast of unleavened bread. We know that Aquila was a Jew and he along with his wife Priscilla were likely the first to be converted by Paul in Corinth (Acts 18:2). And we know that Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue in Corinth, was also converted along with his entire household (Acts 18:8). So even though the church in Corinth contained Gentiles, it also contained at least several Jews who were very knowledgeable about the Law and they had no need for Paul to teach them about the feast and that is not what he is doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Forty9er View Post
    The Passover is part of the Old Covenant. Every time someone celebrates the Lord's Supper they are proclaiming the New Covenant.
    Please provide scriptural support for your statement.
    The original Passover in Egypt formed the basis for God's covenant with Israel, the Old Covenant. By it God not only saved the firstborn of Israel but brought them out of Egypt and redeemed them as a people to Himself:

    Exod 6:5 Moreover, I have heard the groaning of the people of Israel whom the Egyptians hold as slaves, and I have remembered my covenant.
    Exod 6:6 Say therefore to the people of Israel, ‘I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will deliver you from slavery to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with great acts of judgment.
    Exod 6:7 I will take you to be my people, and I will be your God, and you shall know that I am the LORD your God, who has brought you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

    Exod 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
    Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;

    And it is clear that the Passover is part of the Law contained in the books of Moses and this is called the Old Covenant in 2Cor 3:14-15.

    I assume this is what you wanted Scriptural support for.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    How do you “know” this? Because honestly my friend, your knowledge and your assumptions are not correct. If you read the whole of 1Cor 11, you will see that Paul is actually discussing the observance of the coming together for the Passover service. Remember this epistle was to Gentiles who do not have a history of observing the Passover or the Feasts and Holy Days, they are learning them and here being corrected.
    Well if you read the first 16 verses of 1Cor 11 you will find that Paul talks about Christ being the head of every man and the head of every woman is her husband and he talks about hair and the covering of the head and the relationships between men and women but not a thing about the Passover.

    So you want me to believe that in verses 17-34 he is talking about the Passover although he never mentions it even once. And you want me to believe that when Paul says "when you come together" and "when you come together as a church" and "when you come together to eat" he really means only the once a year observance of the Passover. I'm sorry but I don't believe that for a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    1Cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

    What ordinances? Jewish things? Absolutely not, for Paul fought against the Jewish traditions, but He taught those things that were to be kept and observed.
    Do you realize that the Greek word that is translated as "ordinances" in this verse in the KJV is translated as "traditions" in many other translations? And Christ even uses the same Greek word to mean tradition:

    Matt 15:3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

    Matt 15:6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

    Yes, Paul fought against the Jewish traditions as Christ did but in verse 2 Paul isn't talking about the Jewish traditions but the traditions he delivered to them. So no, Paul isn't talking about the ordinances from the Law otherwise his letters in the NT would be filled with explanations of the various detailed regulations from the Law but they aren't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofJAC View Post
    Yes, we have common ground. Although we see things from a different perspective, neither one of us can or should judge the other. I have members in my own family whom I truly love that see these things from your perspective. All I can do is let my light shine and I am ready to answer their questions as they come. Interestingly, those questions have been coming more frequently as of late.
    I really mean it when I say...

    Grace and Peace to you
    Thank you. I appreciate it when you say "neither one of us can or should judge the other". That is my feeling as well.

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