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Thread: The Shack

  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    Just re-read this post by forty9er and since he had mentioned he didn't want to discuss things anymore with me, I allowed his misrepresentations of my beliefs to go unresponded to, plus, this thread was about the good movie "The Shack", wherein it is discovered that God even loves His wayward creatures, and desires to 'save them', too, so I probably should set the record straight. forty8er, I do not want anyone to believe the things you erroneously concluded in your post.
    Don't worry, I'm not going to respond to your post in detail but I want to make one thing very clear.

    I stand by everything I said in that post and there was nothing "erroneous" in it at all. Those conclusions about your beliefs are inevitable given the fact that you claim that the Greek word "aionios" can never mean eternal or everlasting. By never, not even once, allowing the word to be translated as eternal or everlasting you are only left with those conclusions.

    Believe me, I understand why you have chosen to translate the word that way because if you open the door even a crack and say that the word can in some cases be translated as eternal, then your false doctrine of universal salvation falls apart.

    But by restricting the translation of the word to exclusively mean only a limited time what you are left with is a NT with very few references to the eternal. Not salvation, not "eternal life", and not even Christ's life is eternal. And that is a perversion of God's Word.

  2. #192
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    forty9er, If you still hold your opinions of my position, it is evident that, once again, I did not do a good job of explaining them.

    As in Adam all die, so too, in Christ, all will be made alive. Same all. The question is when? Some, the overcomers, will receive life in the Messianic Age, at the first resurrection, wherein the overcomers raised to life in that Age will live and reign with Christ and the second death has no power or authority over them. But what of the rest who are not included among the overcomers? At the resurrection of the dead, all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come forth, after the thousand year 'Age', some resurrected to life and others to 'condemnation', or 'damnation'. Does this mean they will 'forever' be condemned or damned? Some, of course, will 'suffer' the second death, the lake of fire, but does that mean there is no resurrection for them? Does death win? No, according to scripture, death is the last enemy to be destroyed. So, in future ages, they, too, will be given life in Christ, so that the prophecy "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" will come to fulfillment. As you know, no one can call Jesus Lord except for the work of the Holy Spirit.

    At some point, maybe 50,000 years from creation, the creation itself, will benefit from the grace revealed in the Law of God, that of the Jubilee, when everyone will receive the inheritance they had 'lost', so that God will be all in all. To His glory, of course. What a plan of reconciliation and restoration, don't you think?

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    forty9er, If you still hold your opinions of my position, it is evident that, once again, I did not do a good job of explaining them.

    As in Adam all die, so too, in Christ, all will be made alive. Same all. The question is when? Some, the overcomers, will receive life in the Messianic Age, at the first resurrection, wherein the overcomers raised to life in that Age will live and reign with Christ and the second death has no power or authority over them. But what of the rest who are not included among the overcomers? At the resurrection of the dead, all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come forth, after the thousand year 'Age', some resurrected to life and others to 'condemnation', or 'damnation'. Does this mean they will 'forever' be condemned or damned? Some, of course, will 'suffer' the second death, the lake of fire, but does that mean there is no resurrection for them? Does death win? No, according to scripture, death is the last enemy to be destroyed. So, in future ages, they, too, will be given life in Christ, so that the prophecy "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" will come to fulfillment. As you know, no one can call Jesus Lord except for the work of the Holy Spirit.

    At some point, maybe 50,000 years from creation, the creation itself, will benefit from the grace revealed in the Law of God, that of the Jubilee, when everyone will receive the inheritance they had 'lost', so that God will be all in all. To His glory, of course. What a plan of reconciliation and restoration, don't you think?


    At some point, maybe 50,000 years from creation, the creation itself, will benefit from the grace revealed in the Law of God, that of the Jubilee, when everyone will receive the inheritance they had 'lost', so that God will be all in all. To His glory, of course. What a plan of reconciliation and restoration, don't you think?
    But that's not what God says. There are a great many verses in the Bible which plainly speak of eternal or everlasting punishment for the unbeliever.

    Forty9er said:

    Those conclusions about your beliefs are inevitable given the fact that you claim that the Greek word "aionios" can never mean eternal or everlasting. By never, not even once, allowing the word to be translated as eternal or everlasting you are only left with those conclusions.

    Believe me, I understand why you have chosen to translate the word that way because if you open the door even a crack and say that the word can in some cases be translated as eternal, then your false doctrine of universal salvation falls apart.

    But by restricting the translation of the word to exclusively mean only a limited time what you are left with is a NT with very few references to the eternal. Not salvation, not "eternal life", and not even Christ's life is eternal. And that is a perversion of God's Word.
    Forty9er is correct.

    The book of Daniel speaks of things that are everlasting.

    Daniel chapter 12 verse 2

    And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth
    shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame
    and everlasting contempt.

    The word "everlasting" appears twice in the verse above. The Hebrew word translated "everlasting" is the word "owlam" or "olam". Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible uses the words "eternity", "eternal", "ever (-lasting, -more, of old), perpetual, and world (+without end) to define this word.

    I hope this post will help you. If not, I hope it will help anyone you might have confused.
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  4. #194
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    My intent is not to confuse anyone. They will experience Age lasting 'punishment', but it is not endless, merely undefined in duration.

  5. #195
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    Well, after 20 pages of discussion in this thread, it is obvious that we have had a good lesson in discernment between Truth and fantasy. Maybe it should be closed now.

    It has given me an opportunity to think about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the person of Jesus; and the Holy Spirit. That has been a good thing. It has reinforced my faith in my Lord and Savior, Jesus the Messiah. It has reinforced my awe and love for God, the father. It has also caused me to wonder if certain things that occurred during this time revealed to me how the Holy Spirit washes over us in times of deep thought and prayer and even worry about the nature of repentance. My firm belief that the Bible contains the inspired inerrant Word of the God is secure. Scholars can and do struggle with minutiae. But man will never grasp the description or nature of God other than just what He has chosen to reveal about Himself in the Scriptures. That nature or description will never be accurate in a book or movie written by a man who claims to have the knowledge that no one has. God has given us the Word...In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

    There will come a time that in the blink of an eye, that which we now see through a glass darkly, will be revealed as it truly is. In the meantime, Jesus is Lord and we should do as the Father said...Love God with your whole heart, soul, mind and body, believe in Jesus and love your neighbor as yourself. On this, as He said, hangs all the Law and Prophets, and a guide path for how we live our lives in the flesh. If you think about it, that is a task that is not easy, but it is the work we are to do. Think about how daily we fall down on that job. Praise Jesus, He raises us up each time we fall because of His perfect sacrifice that brought us into Him. Perhaps we should focus on that more so than some fantasy book and movie or inventing things that are not. Everything we need to know is in Scripture, the Word of God.

    Thank you all for suffering a fool such as I.

  6. #196
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    PS: The It in the above 2nd paragraph was not the book or the movie, by the way. It was the discussion.

  7. #197
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    Thank you gramster, again, for starting this thread. It is awesome to consider that our God and Father is the same God and Father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So much that we do not comprehend, but as Jesus said "and this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Knowing God and His Son, truly knowing, probably will take an eternity. Exciting indeed.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatic View Post
    Thank you gramster, again, for starting this thread. It is awesome to consider that our God and Father is the same God and Father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So much that we do not comprehend, but as Jesus said "and this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Knowing God and His Son, truly knowing, probably will take an eternity. Exciting indeed.
    I guess I should expect this from you but there can be only 3 explanations for you posting this:

    1) You have changed your opinion about the meaning of "aionios" eternal life and now believe it actually means eternal (which I would imagine is extremely unlikely).

    2) You have lost touch with reality and have no idea what you are saying.

    3) You don't really believe what you have written but have purposely posted this, like a troll, to provoke me into an angry response.

    So which one is it??? I'm not even going to guess.

    According to you, Christ didn't say "and this is life eternal..." but you claim He said "and this is a limited life in the age to come...". According to you, what Christ was talking about had nothing to do with eternity and yet you quote it and talk about it as if it did. Simply amazing.

  9. #199
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    forty9er, probably no need to requote 1 Cor. 15:22-26. I know it is hard to imagine life without death at its 'end', but I will ask you. Do you believe that someday, there will be no more death? If so, how will this be accomplished? The wages of sin is death. Do you believe that someday there will be no more sin? Presently, that is hard to imagine, I suppose.

    In a previous post, I thought I had answered your questions, which are explained from 1 Cor 15:22-26. Those who are the blessed ones, those who keep the commandments of God, the overcomers described in the Revelation, will receive "life" in the first resurrection near the beginning of the "Age". Death will have no more power over them. I think that means they will never die....again.

    So, what of the rest? Non-overcoming believers and unbelievers? According to 1 Cor. they, too, will receive "Life", in Christ, but every man in his own 'order' or squadron, or company....in the coming ages, until, finally, death will be no more! Wonderful and awesome plan if you ask me! Until, finally, all will be reconciled to God and God will be all in all! God, having legally conquered sin and death to His eternal glory! He is so very awesome and praiseworthy!

    I hope you can get a glimpse of His grace full plan as His righteousness, justice, mercy and truth is revealed to all of His beloved creation in the coming ages! Please do not hesitate to ask if you have more questions. Thanks. Peace in believing.

  10. #200
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    ‘I Have Deep Regrets’: Graphic Artist Who Designed ‘Shack’ Novel Renounces Book By Heather Clark on April 10, 201772 Comments
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    26.1K 560 Share6 65 26.8KThe graphic artist who helped design the controversial best-selling novel “The Shack” has come forward to express his regret for being a part of the project out of his concern that it contains false doctrine.
    “[O]ver 10 years ago, I was captivated by the story and felt honored to be part of the graphic creation of the book. I was so drawn into it, wanting to know the God it portrayed,” Dave Aldrich of Aldrich Design posted to social media on Tuesday. “The Shack’s story wonderfully painted this picture to me of an incredibly knowable and loving God, one full of forgiveness, but without being judgmental.”
    He said that the novel led him into reading other authors such as Rob Bell and Brian McLaren, and he found himself at the edge of accepting universalist beliefs before he came to realize the danger.

    “I thank the Lord that He pulled me back from that edge,” Aldrich wrote.



    And while the graphic designer initially liked how God was portrayed as being non-judgmental and all-loving, he now realizes that because God is love, He must judge sin.
    “The fact is that there are two inseparable sides to God. He is both love and judge,” he said.
    Aldrich states that he now has “deep regrets” over his personal involvement with and promotion of “The Shack.”





    “The movie release of ‘The Shack’ has brought all this back to my mind and I felt the need to apologize to all who I may have led astray by my promoting the book,” he wrote. “I look back and see how little discernment I had. And I regret and apologize also for waiting this long to publicly share this.”
    And while some may argue that the book and film are just an imaginary story, Aldrich believes—based on the statements of its author—that the work is simply a means to communicate a message.
    “Many will still say that the book was intended as just a work of fiction, but the author himself, William Paul Young, is quoted as saying, ‘The Shack is theology. But it is a theology wrapped in a story,'” Aldrich noted.




    http://christiannews.net/2017/04/10/...enounces-book/
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