Debt Limit Looks Like A Real Struggle After Health Bill Debacle

[naegling62]

ACA is still ObamaCare. The garbage that Trump/Ryan tried to pass would've been the Republican equivalent of the ACA garbage. It wouldn't have helped Trump, congressional Republicans, or most importantly, The People any more than O'Care did, has or ever will.

Trump chose the wrong side to shill for. I can't believe anyone gives him a pass for his participation in pushing that steamin' pile of legislative dung. It's also baffling how he can still be seen as the appropriate leader of a new 3rd Party movement after he spent so much political capital shilling for establishment Republicans and the garbage they write. Now he's going after the only faction of Republicans who ever even mention The Constitution in their platform statements. They're the only ones talking about traditionally Reagan-Republican principles of smaller, less intrusive government, which is fully compatible with the promises they made to their voters to repeal O'Care, which Trump's TreasonCare didn't even get close to. Whether or not the (not-so) Freedom Caucus is simply pushing a pretense of upholding their promises, which I think is as likely as not, Trump ain't even doing that. You're backing just another lyin' establishment Republican who is indistinguishable from McConnell, Boehner, or Ryan in what he will actually do in office. The only thing that distinguishes him from them is what he says, and what he said to get elected didn't last a week before he exposed himself as indistinguishable from even Obama himself in refusing to rescind the most blatantly unconstitutional EO Obama ever signed, DACA, a program that protects illegal aliens over the interests of the American People. And still some of you hold onto the notion that he is the Great Anti-Globalist. Total cognitive dissonance.

Blues

Blues I'm curious, how much is your Healthcare monthly payment?

[BluesStringer]

Maybe the Freedom Caucus should of used their clout to oust Ryan as Speaker.
That would of been as great a victory as stopping this Bill.

What "clout?" There's less than 30 FC members in the House. Each representative gets one vote. The only "clout" they have as individuals is that which they earn from their constituents through fulfilling the campaign promises they made to get elected. The only reason the establishment-types have more clout is that the useful-idiot voters who send them to DC keep sending them back, irregardless of their horrendous voting records.

Maybe Trump should've voiced his backing of the Freedom Caucus so they knew they had even the pretense of a constitutional ally in the Rainbow House. The bill would've at least most likely contained a real repeal if that had been the case. No tellin' what the replacement might've looked like, but the responsibility for it would've rested squarely on the folks' shoulders who pushed it (Trump and the Freedom Caucus), rather than now where Ryan, the rest of his establishment hacks and Trump are all busy blaming the one group who stood by the promise to repeal they made to their constituents. It is amazing that y'all are still standing behind promise-breakers while you are happy to find fault with the promise-keepers. Amazingly despicable, that is.

I'm just glad the Republicans were so concerned that they probably just guaranteed me a $2,900 monthly payment.

Every report I heard said that premiums were going up even higher than they currently are under O'Care if TreasonCare passed. That was one of the main objections to it from what I heard, and it is worse for older Americans than younger ones. Cadillac tax stayed. Taxpayers continue to subsidize those who can't or just plain don't want to purchase health insurance at the same time TreasonCare pushed an estimated 24 million off of O'Care roles. Now there's a recipe for lower costs, eh? Some taxes sunset after a year or two, but others stayed. I'm 62 and have excellent health insurance, made less excellent by O'Care, but still good nonetheless. If y'all had won this round I'd be holding you responsible for whatever added costs we suffered, whether through our premiums and co-pays, or through the higher taxes we'd have to fork over to pay for it all, or through both and/or other increases I'm not well-versed enough to even know about or able to rationally predict.

And at the bottom line, the only reason O'Care is even still law is because a traitor by the name of John Roberts decided to change the word "fine" (which was ruled unconstitutional) into the word "tax" (under the auspices of the 16th Amendment, which was never legally ratified to begin with)! A fine by any other name is still a fine, and O'Care has been unconstitutional since the day it passed no matter the verbal gymnastics Roberts performed to try to make it not so.

Bottom line for you should be the recognition that your costs were going up either way, so, if you're really a nationalist who wants to see America act like America comes first, last, and everywhere in between, you would err on the side of the most constitutional option you had available to you. That is a complete repeal of O'Care. Anything less, especially by Trump or Ryan who have both spent the last several years saying they wanted it repealed, amounts to broken promises.

Blues

[BluesStringer]

Blues I'm curious, how much is your Healthcare monthly payment?

Our per-month payment is a much less significant number than the percentage of increase our healthcare costs have suffered because of O'Care. That percentage includes premiums, deductibles, co-pays and increased taxes. Premiums are "only" about 100% higher than before O'Care passed. Deductibles are eight times higher (from $500 each per year to $4,000). Co-pays for office visits are doubled, and for meds are about 3.5 times higher. We have done pretty well in the last eight years and went to the next-higher tax bracket than before Obama took office, so I'm not able to even guess how much of our higher taxes are attributable to O'Care, but am I wrong in remembering that part of O'Care was instituting a tax on employer-provided health insurance as though it was income? I could be mistaken, but whether I am or I ain't, taxes certainly went up when the $2+ trillion O'Care went into effect.

I spent money I didn't have fighting O'Care. I went to DC and fought it every other way I could think of both before and since it was passed. I got a right to b!tch about it not being fully repealed, and the fact that you have to pay what sounds like a lot more than I do for insurance is one of the reasons why I fought it so hard. I do feel for the financial pressure you must feel from such a huge insurance bill, and I know not everyone was ever gonna fight it as hard as I was willing to, but sorry, your monthly bill doesn't move me now. Your willingness to back Trump and the majority of the House Republicans who refused to keep their promises to repeal it moves me much farther in the opposite direction against feeling sorry for you for your bills that should've never been. You could fight against such treachery for unselfish, freedom-loving and constitutional reasons, but you choose instead to back people who will keep large parts of it in place for only your wild-ass-guess that TreasonCare would've been any cheaper for you. I don't think it would've been, but whether or not it would've, you can't blame me because I fought O'Care every single step of the way.

Blues

[naegling62]

Our per-month payment is a much less significant number than the percentage of increase our healthcare costs have suffered because of O'Care. That percentage includes premiums, deductibles, co-pays and increased taxes. Premiums are "only" about 100% higher than before O'Care passed. Deductibles are eight times higher (from $500 each per year to $4,000). Co-pays for office visits are doubled, and for meds are about 3.5 times higher. We have done pretty well in the last eight years and went to the next-higher tax bracket than before Obama took office, so I'm not able to even guess how much of our higher taxes are attributable to O'Care, but am I wrong in remembering that part of O'Care was instituting a tax on employer-provided health insurance as though it was income? I could be mistaken, but whether I am or I ain't, taxes certainly went up when the $2+ trillion O'Care went into effect.

I spent money I didn't have fighting O'Care. I went to DC and fought it every other way I could think of both before and since it was passed. I got a right to b!tch about it not being fully repealed, and the fact that you have to pay what sounds like a lot more than I do for insurance is one of the reasons why I fought it so hard. I do feel for the financial pressure you must feel from such a huge insurance bill, and I know not everyone was ever gonna fight it as hard as I was willing to, but sorry, your monthly bill doesn't move me now. Your willingness to back Trump and the majority of the House Republicans who refused to keep their promises to repeal it moves me much farther in the opposite direction against feeling sorry for you for your bills that should've never been. You could fight against such treachery for unselfish, freedom-loving and constitutional reasons, but you choose instead to back people who will keep large parts of it in place for only your wild-ass-guess that TreasonCare would've been any cheaper for you. I don't think it would've been, but whether or not it would've, you can't blame me because I fought O'Care every single step of the way.

Blues

Yes, I was against ACA from the start and actually would prefer complete repeal. Why would you suppose the Republicans won't repeal now that they have both houses and the presidency? I hear Rep. Mo Brooks put forth a one sentence repeal. What happened with that?

BTW...i wouldn't blame you for anything. You failed, just as I. My attempt was voting for a president who claimed he would change it. So far, nothing.

[breezy]

Blues, It was their clout that stopped it which I applaud. I don't find fault with them regarding Ryan. I just wished they had blocked his election as Speaker.

[naegling62]

Blues, It was their clout that stopped it which I applaud. I don't find fault with them regarding Ryan. I just wished they had blocked his election as Speaker.

I can't remember, but was there ever a speaker folks like us on the tree liked?

[breezy]

I can't remember, but was there ever a speaker folks like us on the tree liked?

I don't think so but the last two were doozys.

[BluesStringer]

Yes, I was against ACA from the start and actually would prefer complete repeal. Why would you suppose the Republicans won't repeal now that they have both houses and the presidency? I hear Rep. Mo Brooks put forth a one sentence repeal. What happened with that?

BTW...i wouldn't blame you for anything. You failed, just as I. My attempt was voting for a president who claimed he would change it. So far, nothing.

As to the part in bold, it's the same ol' question - why won't supposed pro-gun Republicans work to repeal unconstitutional federal legislation like NFA34 on forward to FOPA and the Hughes Amendment, or oppose national reciprocity that's based in Commerce Clause precedent rather than Second Amendment rights? Why won't supposed tax-cutting Republicans actually ever really change the tax system so that it doesn't rise and fall like a roller coaster with every change of party in the Rainbow House? Why won't supposed moral-majority-adherent Republicans ever do a damned thing about getting Roe overturned, or opposing gay "marriage" or stand up to the LGBQ lobby over trannies using bathrooms of their opposite gender? Why won't Republicans now repeal O'Care? Because like I've said a hundred times (at least) on here, they're all in it together. Trump is no more a conservative than Pelosi is politically-speaking. Even on business issues he liked Dem policies better'n Republican before he took office. May still. He also talked up single-payer not so long ago. Obama's wet dream was that the insurance industry would collapse before he left office, leaving single-payer the only "workable" solution. Trump has been heard in recent days since TreasonCare failed saying he'd just let O'Care collapse so Dems would "own" it. In my book, the whole lot of 'em will own it, and it won't surprise me at all if Trump (et al) pushes single-payer if/when O'Care does collapse, just exactly like we know without a doubt Obama would have. They're all in it together is the short answer to your question in bold.

As to the rest, I understand, and thanks for the acknowledgement/admission that Trump hasn't done squat. The gap between our respective positions just shortened a bit. You say, "So far, nothing," and I say even if he tried, this country is too far gone for him to do anything. He can't fix anything, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to point it out when he breaks a specific promise to do something as big as repealing O'Care, or running a constitutionally-compliant Rainbow House, the latter of which he has failed at since Minute-One of his administration when he didn't get rid of Obama's unconstitutional EOs, whether it's only DACA that he needs to rescind, or a bevvy of others to boot.

Blues

[naegling62]

As to the part in bold, it's the same ol' question - why won't supposed pro-gun Republicans work to repeal unconstitutional federal legislation like NFA34 on forward to FOPA and the Hughes Amendment, or oppose national reciprocity that's based in Commerce Clause precedent rather than Second Amendment rights? Why won't supposed tax-cutting Republicans actually ever really change the tax system so that it doesn't rise and fall like a roller coaster with every change of party in the Rainbow House? Why won't supposed moral-majority-adherent Republicans ever do a damned thing about getting Roe overturned, or opposing gay "marriage" or stand up to the LGBQ lobby over trannies using bathrooms of their opposite gender? Why won't Republicans now repeal O'Care? Because like I've said a hundred times (at least) on here, they're all in it together. Trump is no more a conservative than Pelosi is politically-speaking. Even on business issues he liked Dem policies better'n Republican before he took office. May still. He also talked up single-payer not so long ago. Obama's wet dream was that the insurance industry would collapse before he left office, leaving single-payer the only "workable" solution. Trump has been heard in recent days since TreasonCare failed saying he'd just let O'Care collapse so Dems would "own" it. In my book, the whole lot of 'em will own it, and it won't surprise me at all if Trump (et al) pushes single-payer if/when O'Care does collapse, just exactly like we know without a doubt Obama would have. They're all in it together is the short answer to your question in bold.

As to the rest, I understand, and thanks for the acknowledgement/admission that Trump hasn't done squat. The gap between our respective positions just shortened a bit. You say, "So far, nothing," and I say even if he tried, this country is too far gone for him to do anything. He can't fix anything, but that doesn't mean I won't continue to point it out when he breaks a specific promise to do something as big as repealing O'Care, or running a constitutionally-compliant Rainbow House, the latter of which he has failed at since Minute-One of his administration when he didn't get rid of Obama's unconstitutional EOs, whether it's only DACA that he needs to rescind, or a bevvy of others to boot.

Blues

Yes Blues, that post we agree on whole heartedly. If we keep this up it will be dinner and flowers before you know it.

[PatDaly]

I don't think so but the last two were doozys.

Last 2? I can't remember a decent one in my lifetime.................. And I am getting OLD.