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Thread: Who is your God?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrowcreek View Post
    No I do not hate the Jews, in fact I have had close friendships with some of them throughout my years as a Born Again believer. Also a Christian Jew Believer is for real, they love Yahshua because they were lost in their Jewish faith and now have found there true Messiah.
    If this is true then why do you continue to post articles from one of the most anti-Semitic, Jew hating, Hitler loving sites on the internet? They not only hate Jews and any non-white race, but they consider them subhuman and that hatred can clearly be seen throughout the site. So your above statement is totally inconsistent with your continued use of a Jew hating site. Why should anyone believe what you are saying now?

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by awesome1
    The we have Constatine who decided at the council of Nicea what would and would not go in the bible.
    Actually, you couldn't be more wrong on that, even if you said the earth is flat.

    The first Council of Nicaea in 325 which is the one most people refer to, and I assume you are, was called into session to address a heresy that was being propagated throughout the 4th century church. That being "Arianism". Which was about Jesus Christ being born an ordinary man (that would have to mean He was born in sin), and through His good deeds, and good life became God. And as such was subordinate to God the Father, among other variations.

    All of this is easily accessible via wiki as is where the below comes from:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

    One purpose of the council was to resolve disagreements arising from within the Church of Alexandria over the nature of the Son in his relationship to the Father: in particular, whether the Son had been 'begotten' by the Father from his own being, and therefore having no beginning, or else created out of nothing, and therefore having a beginning.[12] St. Alexander of Alexandria and Athanasius took the first position; the popular presbyter Arius, from whom the term Arianism comes, took the second. The council decided against the Arians overwhelmingly (of the estimated 250–318 attendees, all but two agreed to sign the creed and these two, along with Arius, were banished to Illyria).[13]
    There is no record of any discussion of the biblical canon at the council.[73]
    The main source of the idea that the Bible was created at the Council of Nicea seems to be Voltaire, who popularised a story that the canon was determined by placing all the competing books on an altar during the Council and then keeping the ones that did not fall off. The original source of this "fictitious anecdote" is the Synodicon Vetus,[76] a pseudo-historical account of early Church councils from AD 887:[77]
    Not for sure but I think this idea has been popularized lately by Dan Brown starting with the Da Vinci Code.

    O, and being a good person doesn't matter one way or the other, but hey believe what you want. It's what the Egyptians, and Greeks, and Romans did. (Ra, Zues, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by arrowcreek
    The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was originally written in the language that Yahshua spoke, Aramaic.
    You couldn't be more wrong on that, if you had said the earth was flat.

    Also a simple cursory investigation even from a secular site like wiki totally destroys that notion, and no one even needs to have attended Dallas Theological Seminary.

    The New Testament is a collection of Christian works written in the common (Koine) Greek language of the first century,
    Even though Jesus may have spoke Aramaic, the New Testament was written in Greek, so NO translation was needed originally, since the reason it was written in Greek was because at the time it was the common language. Meaning, there was no New Testament written in Aramaic and then "translated" into Greek.
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

  3. #183
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by awesome1 View Post
    ZEUS. He was a pretty good god. Maybe he was before Jesus. My favorite god though would have to be the sun. The bringer of light and all life in the universe.
    Unfortunately, many can only see G-d as either Zeus, and thus perceive a need to appease an angry god.....or the sun, as if G-d is an not thinking, unfeeling constant upon which we depend for life, yet offers nothing else. Maybe a big part of the problem is that religion has painted a perception that G-d is unapproachable outside some particular construct.

    Its no secret that I have a problem with Christianity. Not Christians, good people for the most part but right from the very beginning Christianity was about control.
    It was, but Itry to focus more on people than the institution.
    1st Moses goes and sits down next to a burning acacia bush which contains one of the highest amounts of DMT in the plant kingdom. Its quite possible he was tripping. ...Then he comes down and says, hey guys look what I got. God talked to me and gave me the rules. ....Now if I came down off of my hill after burning a bush and told you I have some rules that god gave me, you would have me locked up.
    It can be difficult to accept a literal idea of certain events. But even if you can't, there is an underlying meaning to these wild sounding things which is the main point of it all. It's humorous to think of Moses taking a big toke off a bush, but there's much more to gleen from the stories than that, even if they seem too wild to take literally.

    Then we have one of the rules being to love thy neighbor. Yet every encounter with the neighbors ends the same way, convert or die.
    Murder = love has unfortunately been a long standing theme across religious as well as secular constructs. A human thing more than religious really. People will use whatever vice is available to accomodate it.

    I wont even go into the evil that permeates the vatican and has since day one.
    I could go into great detail but my intention is not to inflame everyone else.
    Protestant or Catholic institutions alike, both have done attrocious things and should not be the measure for evaluating anything but human tyrrany. They don't make or break the bible.
    From my perspective, everyone has their own beliefs. My beliefs are my truth and yours is your truth. In a civil society we could all agree to disagree.
    But in a civil society, the vast majority agree to a particular mode of conduct which allows for everyone to exist together. That is real and substantive agreement on objective things.

    However, just a few hundred years ago you would have asked me to accept Jesus as my savior and if I didn't you would have killed me.
    Who ordered all that killing, Zeus, the sun, the G-d of the Bible, or men with corrupted morals under a shroud of piety? Because the G-d of the Bible warranted it for certain people in a certain place and at a very corrupt point in history, does the Bible then make it a modus operandi for all time and places? Not in my reading.

    So, God can sit down and have a conversation with 1 man alone on a mountain top but he cant come back ever and say to someone else, stop with the killing, stop with the nonsense. I mean right now the entire would could be living in peace and harmony right now. No more wars, no more hunger, no more struggle for power, if God had only come back and talked to a couple religious leaders , like the Muslim leader. For some reason he just wont get everyone on the same page. To me, it just doesn't make sense.
    Now wait a minute, that same G-d is said to have had a conversation with 600,000 people all at once. But then, it scared the bejesus out of them so bad they begged G-d to stop. Are you sure it would be a great idea for G-d to speak that directly? It wouldn't leave much leeway for a non-tyrranical approach to dealing with us. I mean, really, a huge voice and bright shining presence makes for a lot more heart failure than it would one on one heart to heart discussion. How else, then can that G-d communicate than hiding meaning in things around us and giving us the option of hearing it or not? That's a lot better G-d in my book than one who's direct presence is something I might or might not even live through.


    Then we have a book with a bunch or words in it. Starting in Genesis it refers to multiple gods
    .

    No it doesn't. That's an arguement made by people who don't know much about the language. Elohim can and is used in both plural and singular usage. And after the plural sounding "let us make man", it states, "and He" which is singular. So, the question is what was G-d speaking to, multiples of Himself, or the creation and the earth which are like man, (or rather, man is like them), dwelling places for G-d and purveyors of His character. Ever hear the idea that man is a microcosm of the universe?

    Perhaps that's the problem. Putting that aside though, its filled with words and writing. Through most of history the people have been pretty illiterate. Probably like 95% back then couldn't read or write.
    Have any evidence for that? My study of history suggests that illiteracy was fairly spotty for a lot of history. But I think that's a subjective claim either way.

    So we have a book full of laws for people to live by but no one could read them, well few could read them
    Not full of them. There are only 613. And of them, only certain fractions are applicable to any one human being. Contrast that to now, when there are tens of thousands that apply to every human being. Things were quite simple then.

    Seems eerily familiar to the federal gov writing 2000 page laws that no one reads and just telling everyone what they think it says. At the very least this opens the door for abuse.
    That is true, but anarchy is much more abusive yet. No matter how we dice it, life is full of abuses.


    At the end of the day, I am a good person and live my life closer to the way god would want than most Christians..
    I would wager to say you have never met most Christians. Most Christians live in third world countries. By what standard are you a good person? By the Bibles? By Aristotles? Plato's? The culture in which you live? Your own inner feeling? That could mean anything.

    I have a neighbor who studied the bible for years. We spent many hours in deep conversation and he would open that book up and quote all kinds of stuff. But at the end of the day we were both in agreement on many issues. By living close to nature I had as good or better of an understanding on many issues that he learned in the book.
    Well now, there's a measure everyone can live by...if you can explain it better than some other guy, then you must have it all down pretty good. Not too logical, would you say?

    My conclusion is that whoever wrote the book had a very good understanding of nature. Makes sense since they were mostly an agrarian society back then.
    That's pretty easy to deduce, but the ins and outs of all the lessons, maybe not so much.


    Ok one last item.... Its written someplace, "as above, so below" The book also states that were were created in his image and likeness. Something like that. Again its late and I'm tired. So imagine for a moment our human body. Imagine that form the size of the universe. Our sun being just one cell in that body, That body is what I would consider being the true god.
    The way I read the book, you are describing a demigod. The one I see can't be described in those terms at all....

    Not trying to pick on you, but presumably you posted so as to get a response....
    There is a great danger that people are taking refuge in magical thinking, which today takes one of four forms: the far right, the far left, religious extremism and aggressive secularism. The far right seeks a return to a golden past that never was. The far left seeks a utopian future that will never be. Religious extremists believe you can bring salvation by force. Aggressive secularists believe that if you get rid of religion there will be peace. -Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

  4. #184
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    Thanks for your reply whiskey reb.
    Unfortunately, many can only see G-d as either Zeus, and thus perceive a need to appease an angry god.....or the sun, as if G-d is an not thinking, unfeeling constant upon which we depend for life, yet offers nothing else. Maybe a big part of the problem is that religion has painted a perception that G-d is unapproachable outside some particular construct.
    What is thinking? Electrical impulses firing between synopses or something like that :). Thought is electrical in nature. There's more and more evidence to suggest that the universe is also electrical in nature.
    One of those photo's is the human brain. Another is the cosmic web, another is mushroom mycelium. The 3rd photo is our local galaxy cluster from a photo compilation down by the Hawaii observatory.. Lanakai is the name of it I think. There's better pics of each one.
    I'm not going to make you guess. The 1st photo is the cosmic web, the last photo is our brain neurons firing.
    So the question is does the universe think? Is the universe just a giant brain? If god wanted us all to know him and commune with him what better way to do it than through the sun that reaches us all?
    Ever have an idea and within a short time see that idea by someone else? Almost like deja Vu. Is that inner voice that guides us all the voice of god?
    My entire life I have been different from the rest of my family. Almost like none of their values afflicted me. Chasing money, wanting all the big expensive houses and toys.. Never appealed to me. Give me a piece of land for a garden and to grow things and live in harmony with nature and I'm very content. I tried to go down the normal path but it never made any sense to me. 30 year mortgage? Been there and at the signing the entire time I am thinking WTH am I doing? Go get a good job and slave away for someone else to make them rich? Not for me. I made my own way with the help of that inner voice.
    In the past there wasn't always books and writing. Writing didn't come about until I think the Sumerians about 6000 years ago. Although the Ancient hindu seem to think they have information going back 50 or 60,000 years.. I haven't looked into that much but a trip to India is in my very near future.
    The point there is that god would have had to communicate with people long before there was writing. Human go back at least 200,000 years. Was there just no god for most of that period?
    Yes we have Zues and Ra and thoth but where was christianity back then? Plato makes references to events that happened probably around 11,000 years ago but no mention of Christianity in that time period so my guess is Christianity sprung up after the great flood which occurred around that same time period, probably around 11,600 years ago according to some geologic records. Thats when the glaciers melted and great flood occured and where so many stories originated from.
    Using the bible as a guide as to where Eden was and taking into account that everything was a garden of eden in that area we can deduce that that area's climate was much different at the time. The sahara desert didnt become a desert until about 8000 years ago IIRC. It could have been a bit longer maybe 10-12k years ago but the point is that's when the area would have been the Eden and had the climate to support it. I seem to recall that the next shift back to that climate is still about 13,000 years off. Since that's all caused by the earths wobble which is on a 25800 year cycle I guess 12-13k years ago would be about right. If we take that point as a reference you could of course go back as many cycles as you like to get your starting point. In fact we may have to do that. If that was a time when Giants roamed the earth as well. The Nephelim I think they are called. The problem is there is very little reference made to that period and I think that period also happens before the Garden of Eden. Is that correct?
    Part of the problem with so many books being left out of the bible.
    Anyway, yes there are a couple of stories referring back to the beginning but other than that it seems Christianity sprung up maybe 3000 years ago.
    Here I am not talking about Christian references. I tend to look at history and see who's talking about what at the time. Did the Sumerians make any references to Christianity? Not that I am aware of and since they were right there in the heart of it I would have to think they would have written about it often. The Essenes seem to have been around 300-600 BC, somewhere in that time frame.

    It can be difficult to accept a literal idea of certain events. But even if you can't, there is an underlying meaning to these wild sounding things which is the main point of it all. It's humorous to think of Moses taking a big toke off a bush, but there's much more to gleen from the stories than that, even if they seem too wild to take literally.
    True but where do you draw the line? I mean I can sit down and come up with some pretty good rules similar to moses and that's all on my own. Well, me and that inner voice. Like don't kill. I'm ok with that one, I'm not really much into the whole killing thing anyway. I could have done that on my own.. My thing is actually that everything has a purpose in nature and I am always looking and thinking about what that purpose is. Right now I even have 2 garden beds I am not using. In those beds weeds are growing everywhere and those weeds provide shelter and flowers for the bees and butterflies. If you look long enough you can see the small beds are teaming with life both above and below the soil line. So yea, thou shalt not kill. Good one.
    How about don't till the land? The forests aren't tilled and they grow things just fine. How about just grind up some leaves and plant in that? Feed the soil while you feed yourself.. Plenty of info out there on how and why that works.
    But back to the point... If I come out of the forest and declare, God said no more poisoning of the soil and water on the planet. Would anyone listen? It makes sense and as humans we are just killing ourselves. So, did moses really do anything special here? He threw some stuff out there that should have been common sense anyway. :).
    Who ordered all that killing, Zeus, the sun, the G-d of the Bible, or men with corrupted morals under a shroud of piety? Because the G-d of the Bible warranted it for certain people in a certain place and at a very corrupt point in history, does the Bible then make it a modus operandi for all time and places? Not in my reading.
    Corrupted men for sure.. I think we agree on many things. :).


    No it doesn't. That's an arguement made by people who don't know much about the language. Elohim can and is used in both plural and singular usage. And after the plural sounding "let us make man", it states, "and He" which is singular. So, the question is what was G-d speaking to, multiples of Himself, or the creation and the earth which are like man, (or rather, man is like them), dwelling places for G-d and purveyors of His character. Ever hear the idea that man is a microcosm of the universe?
    And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
    Who was God speaking to here? Surely if only he knew good and evil he would have said the man has become like me. And what is this tree of life? :)

    I would wager to say you have never met most Christians. Most Christians live in third world countries. By what standard are you a good person? By the Bibles? By Aristotles? Plato's? The culture in which you live? Your own inner feeling? That could mean anything.
    I've been to several 3rd world countries. I'm a very unselfish person. Kind and generous and always will to help others and share with others. I propagate fig trees, around 100 different varieties and share them with whomever wants one. I share my knowledge with whomever will listen. I do unto others as I would want done unto me, however normally I just do unto others. I have a very hard time accepting anything from anyone. I'd rather give than receive.

    Now wait a minute, that same G-d is said to have had a conversation with 600,000 people all at once. But then, it scared the bejesus out of them so bad they begged G-d to stop. Are you sure it would be a great idea for G-d to speak that directly? It wouldn't leave much leeway for a non-tyrranical approach to dealing with us. I mean, really, a huge voice and bright shining presence makes for a lot more heart failure than it would one on one heart to heart discussion. How else, then can that G-d communicate than hiding meaning in things around us and giving us the option of hearing it or not? That's a lot better G-d in my book than one who's direct presence is something I might or might not even live through.
    I havent heard this before. Can you give me some reference to research this one?

    The way I read the book, you are describing a demigod. The one I see can't be described in those terms at all
    That's why I cant really go by the book. Adam and Eve hid from God who was walking through the garden. Seems like he was sort of like a regular person. By the book anyway, especially when he cried out "where are you?" People have told me god is everywhere, god is all knowing, he is in everything and everywhere at once. (Sort of like sunlight:) ) Anyway, Maybe back then he was just tired and couldnt find them in the garden. :)
    Here is another reason I think the book was written by man and not God. Back then man knew about the earth and they thought everything revolved around the earth. Wasn't it Capernicus that was imprisoned when he told the world that the Earth orbits the sun? These are things that god knew and by default the Church should have also known.
    Then we discovered planets and orbits and at one point realized our understanding of how things work didn't fit the picture that had been painted.
    Did god write about the dinosaurs or the planets or that our solar system was only 1 of 200 billion solar systems making up one galaxy of 200 billion galaxies? We didn't even know there were other planets orbiting other stars until 1995.

    My intention is not to tell anyone what to believe. At the end of the day I am just pointing out some realities.
    The world has become a very small place. It used to take months to get across the Atlantic. Now we can get there in 5 hrs or even faster in our fastest jets. What used to seem far away now seems very close. With that in mind, in the future we will probably be going from LA to NY in an hr and probably by the end of the next century.
    My prediction for the future is that we will get it together as a species. We will develop technology so we can stop killing the planet and within probably 2 centuries we will be traveling to other solar systems within our own galaxy. Our technology is advancing at hyperspeed.
    That's my vision of the future and I know that doesn't fit with revelations but I cant imagine any god creating such beauty and then wanting it all to come to an end. That doesn't fit with my vision of a kind loving god.
    However, if people back then understand what those in control understand today, mainly, that its easy to control a population with fear, then it would explain why the bible is written in such a way.
    Those in charge of the Church should be in fear the most with everything they preach. If they can do to people what they have done and have no fear of god, that tells me something isn't right with the Church, the bible or perhaps its the church that corrupted the bible and is the reason so much was left out.
    the ending in the bible just seems so hopeless. I prefer to see the future in a brighter way.

  5. #185
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    Thanks for your reply whiskey reb.
    Unfortunately, many can only see G-d as either Zeus, and thus perceive a need to appease an angry god.....or the sun, as if G-d is an not thinking, unfeeling constant upon which we depend for life, yet offers nothing else. Maybe a big part of the problem is that religion has painted a perception that G-d is unapproachable outside some particular construct.
    What is thinking? Electrical impulses firing between synopses or something like that :). Thought is electrical in nature. There's more and more evidence to suggest that the universe is also electrical in nature.
    One of those photo's is the human brain. Another is the cosmic web, another is mushroom mycelium. The 3rd photo is our local galaxy cluster from a photo compilation down by the Hawaii observatory.. Lanakai is the name of it I think. There's better pics of each one.
    I'm not going to make you guess. The 1st photo is the cosmic web, the last photo is our brain neurons firing.
    So the question is does the universe think? Is the universe just a giant brain? If god wanted us all to know him and commune with him what better way to do it than through the sun that reaches us all?
    Ever have an idea and within a short time see that idea by someone else? Almost like deja Vu. Is that inner voice that guides us all the voice of god?
    My entire life I have been different from the rest of my family. Almost like none of their values afflicted me. Chasing money, wanting all the big expensive houses and toys.. Never appealed to me. Give me a piece of land for a garden and to grow things and live in harmony with nature and I'm very content. I tried to go down the normal path but it never made any sense to me. 30 year mortgage? Been there and at the signing the entire time I am thinking WTH am I doing? Go get a good job and slave away for someone else to make them rich? Not for me. I made my own way with the help of that inner voice.
    In the past there wasn't always books and writing. Writing didn't come about until I think the Sumerians about 6000 years ago. Although the Ancient hindu seem to think they have information going back 50 or 60,000 years.. I haven't looked into that much but a trip to India is in my very near future.
    The point there is that god would have had to communicate with people long before there was writing. Human go back at least 200,000 years. Was there just no god for most of that period?
    Yes we have Zues and Ra and thoth but where was christianity back then? Plato makes references to events that happened probably around 11,000 years ago but no mention of Christianity in that time period so my guess is Christianity sprung up after the great flood which occurred around that same time period, probably around 11,600 years ago according to some geologic records. Thats when the glaciers melted and great flood occured and where so many stories originated from.
    Using the bible as a guide as to where Eden was and taking into account that everything was a garden of eden in that area we can deduce that that area's climate was much different at the time. The sahara desert didnt become a desert until about 8000 years ago IIRC. It could have been a bit longer maybe 10-12k years ago but the point is that's when the area would have been the Eden and had the climate to support it. I seem to recall that the next shift back to that climate is still about 13,000 years off. Since that's all caused by the earths wobble which is on a 25800 year cycle I guess 12-13k years ago would be about right. If we take that point as a reference you could of course go back as many cycles as you like to get your starting point. In fact we may have to do that. If that was a time when Giants roamed the earth as well. The Nephelim I think they are called. The problem is there is very little reference made to that period and I think that period also happens before the Garden of Eden. Is that correct?
    Part of the problem with so many books being left out of the bible.
    Anyway, yes there are a couple of stories referring back to the beginning but other than that it seems Christianity sprung up maybe 3000 years ago.
    Here I am not talking about Christian references. I tend to look at history and see who's talking about what at the time. Did the Sumerians make any references to Christianity? Not that I am aware of and since they were right there in the heart of it I would have to think they would have written about it often. The Essenes seem to have been around 300-600 BC, somewhere in that time frame.

    It can be difficult to accept a literal idea of certain events. But even if you can't, there is an underlying meaning to these wild sounding things which is the main point of it all. It's humorous to think of Moses taking a big toke off a bush, but there's much more to gleen from the stories than that, even if they seem too wild to take literally.
    True but where do you draw the line? I mean I can sit down and come up with some pretty good rules similar to moses and that's all on my own. Well, me and that inner voice. Like don't kill. I'm ok with that one, I'm not really much into the whole killing thing anyway. I could have done that on my own.. My thing is actually that everything has a purpose in nature and I am always looking and thinking about what that purpose is. Right now I even have 2 garden beds I am not using. In those beds weeds are growing everywhere and those weeds provide shelter and flowers for the bees and butterflies. If you look long enough you can see the small beds are teaming with life both above and below the soil line. So yea, thou shalt not kill. Good one.
    How about don't till the land? The forests aren't tilled and they grow things just fine. How about just grind up some leaves and plant in that? Feed the soil while you feed yourself.. Plenty of info out there on how and why that works.
    But back to the point... If I come out of the forest and declare, God said no more poisoning of the soil and water on the planet. Would anyone listen? It makes sense and as humans we are just killing ourselves. So, did moses really do anything special here? He threw some stuff out there that should have been common sense anyway. :).
    Who ordered all that killing, Zeus, the sun, the G-d of the Bible, or men with corrupted morals under a shroud of piety? Because the G-d of the Bible warranted it for certain people in a certain place and at a very corrupt point in history, does the Bible then make it a modus operandi for all time and places? Not in my reading.
    Corrupted men for sure.. I think we agree on many things. :).


    No it doesn't. That's an arguement made by people who don't know much about the language. Elohim can and is used in both plural and singular usage. And after the plural sounding "let us make man", it states, "and He" which is singular. So, the question is what was G-d speaking to, multiples of Himself, or the creation and the earth which are like man, (or rather, man is like them), dwelling places for G-d and purveyors of His character. Ever hear the idea that man is a microcosm of the universe?
    And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
    Who was God speaking to here? Surely if only he knew good and evil he would have said the man has become like me. And what is this tree of life? :)

    I would wager to say you have never met most Christians. Most Christians live in third world countries. By what standard are you a good person? By the Bibles? By Aristotles? Plato's? The culture in which you live? Your own inner feeling? That could mean anything.
    I've been to several 3rd world countries. I'm a very unselfish person. Kind and generous and always will to help others and share with others. I propagate fig trees, around 100 different varieties and share them with whomever wants one. I share my knowledge with whomever will listen. I do unto others as I would want done unto me, however normally I just do unto others. I have a very hard time accepting anything from anyone. I'd rather give than receive.

    Now wait a minute, that same G-d is said to have had a conversation with 600,000 people all at once. But then, it scared the bejesus out of them so bad they begged G-d to stop. Are you sure it would be a great idea for G-d to speak that directly? It wouldn't leave much leeway for a non-tyrranical approach to dealing with us. I mean, really, a huge voice and bright shining presence makes for a lot more heart failure than it would one on one heart to heart discussion. How else, then can that G-d communicate than hiding meaning in things around us and giving us the option of hearing it or not? That's a lot better G-d in my book than one who's direct presence is something I might or might not even live through.
    I havent heard this before. Can you give me some reference to research this one?

    The way I read the book, you are describing a demigod. The one I see can't be described in those terms at all
    That's why I cant really go by the book. Adam and Eve hid from God who was walking through the garden. Seems like he was sort of like a regular person. By the book anyway, especially when he cried out "where are you?" People have told me god is everywhere, god is all knowing, he is in everything and everywhere at once. (Sort of like sunlight:) ) Anyway, Maybe back then he was just tired and couldnt find them in the garden. :)
    Here is another reason I think the book was written by man and not God. Back then man knew about the earth and they thought everything revolved around the earth. Wasn't it Capernicus that was imprisoned when he told the world that the Earth orbits the sun? These are things that god knew and by default the Church should have also known.
    Then we discovered planets and orbits and at one point realized our understanding of how things work didn't fit the picture that had been painted.
    Did god write about the dinosaurs or the planets or that our solar system was only 1 of 200 billion solar systems making up one galaxy of 200 billion galaxies? We didn't even know there were other planets orbiting other stars until 1995.

    My intention is not to tell anyone what to believe. At the end of the day I am just pointing out some realities.
    The world has become a very small place. It used to take months to get across the Atlantic. Now we can get there in 5 hrs or even faster in our fastest jets. What used to seem far away now seems very close. With that in mind, in the future we will probably be going from LA to NY in an hr and probably by the end of the next century.
    My prediction for the future is that we will get it together as a species. We will develop technology so we can stop killing the planet and within probably 2 centuries we will be traveling to other solar systems within our own galaxy. Our technology is advancing at hyperspeed.
    That's my vision of the future and I know that doesn't fit with revelations but I cant imagine any god creating such beauty and then wanting it all to come to an end. That doesn't fit with my vision of a kind loving god.
    However, if people back then understand what those in control understand today, mainly, that its easy to control a population with fear, then it would explain why the bible is written in such a way.
    Those in charge of the Church should be in fear the most with everything they preach. If they can do to people what they have done and have no fear of god, that tells me something isn't right with the Church, the bible or perhaps its the church that corrupted the bible and is the reason so much was left out.
    the ending in the bible just seems so hopeless. I prefer to see the future in a brighter way.

  6. #186
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    Who is your God? Do we have someone else trying to be our one world ruler and take a god like position in our world today. Watch this short video only 58 seconds long.

    God Bless

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKuajH3DM44

    By Gerlinda


    What is wrong with the many pictures of the Pope meeting with all these people? They include the youth, individuals, groups, large crowds and the event at which he was the guest speaker at the United Nations?

    What is his main agenda? He speaks on the various problems taking place: many of them purposely created in order to bring people together for the sake of peace and safety.

    Pope Francis is continuing the Ecumenical Program pushed by Pope John Paul II. The trouble with this is that it doesn't matter what various people believe, they will be accepted, they should just get along for the sake of harmony.


    Now, ask yourself, is he correct? If you are a Catholic, do you see this as awesome that your pope is bringing all people together? After all, you believe that your religion is the only one that can bring salvation to mankind. It has all those helpers like Sacraments, Penance, Clergy that wear their rich looking vestments. It is the riches religion in the world. They perform the very same rituals that go back to the days of Babylonian Paganism, including those Fish Hats that the Dagon priest wore while they officiated with their incense holders. Nothing has changed.

    But, ask yourself another question, "Is Christ/Yahusha the Savior being preached or have they swept him under the rug so as not to offend anyone?

    In Matthew 7:13-14 we read of Jesus saying, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

    Do you see what is wrong with this broad road to Peace on Earth? It won't work because the Prince of Peace is being left out and the Prince of the Air, Lucifer is the god that is being worshipped by the majority of the world today.

    For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. I Thess. 5:3

    Yahuah's way is Simple and it is NARROW. He is the Door and there is no way that everything and anything will accepted by the Father when the Only Begotten of the Father has been rejected.

  7. #187
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    Hey awesome1,

    Wow, you really meant to address WR. LOL

    Since you did address your post to him, I won't get into everything you said, except for a couple of minor things.

    That's why I cant really go by the book. Adam and Eve hid from God who was walking through the garden. Seems like he was sort of like a regular person. By the book anyway, especially when he cried out "where are you?" People have told me god is everywhere, god is all knowing, he is in everything and everywhere at once. (Sort of like sunlight:) ) Anyway, Maybe back then he was just tired and couldnt find them in the garden. :)
    When people do wrong, they tend to want to hide it. Most criminal acts are at night. When you were a teenager, did you do stuff you didn't want your parents to know about? Why was that? Same principal, which has been going on from the beginning. We have the same nature as our ancestors. No one is taught to lie.

    Also when God called out, it wasn't for His benefit, as if He didn't know, but rather more in the way of "Look at where you are now." In speaking to Adam and Eve.

    Here is another reason I think the book was written by man and not God. Back then man knew about the earth and they thought everything revolved around the earth. Wasn't it Capernicus that was imprisoned when he told the world that the Earth orbits the sun? .
    You might consider visiting the Root Cellar. Some good discussion on that discovery-globe. Lot's of youtube vids posted.

    These are things that god knew and by default the Church should have also known
    "By default"? Then that would make the church all knowing, on the same level as God. We would not need "teachers" or even the gift from the Holy Spirt of "teachers", because there would be nothing to learn, "by default" we would know it all.
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

  8. #188
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    Been unable to break off much time lately, so delayed my response till I could get some time.
    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by awesome1 View Post
    What is thinking? Electrical impulses firing between synopses or something like that :). Thought is electrical in nature. There's more and more evidence to suggest that the universe is also electrical in nature.
    When taken into the speculative yet, undeniable level of quantum physics, things go far beyond what can be explained as electricity.

    So the question is does the universe think? Is the universe just a giant brain? If god wanted us all to know him and commune with him what better way to do it than through the sun that reaches us all?
    If the universe can think on some level, why stop there? Why not recognize an infinite source from which all thought originates. Just because the universe is immeasurably big, the known evidence suggests it is expanding, which is evidence for it being finite. If it can expand, then, by definition, there is a place where it has not yet reached. To suggest that it expands along with time and space offers us no real useful meaning. If it can all stretch, it all must exist within something else. Therefore, if we think, the earth thinks, and if the universe can think on some level, logical process suggests the macrocosm in which it all dwells can also think.

    Ever have an idea and within a short time see that idea by someone else? Almost like deja Vu.
    Yeah, in fact I should be rich with all the ideas I've had that later someone else brought into actuality. But the connectedness which corresponds to this is the facilitous nature of contemporary existence. Ideas become ripe in their time and many people can simultaneous recognize the connections. Is it spiritual? Yeah, but it's also identifiable natural progression

    Is that inner voice that guides us all the voice of god?
    Yes.

    My entire life I have been different from the rest of my family. Almost like none of their values afflicted me. Chasing money, wanting all the big expensive houses and toys.. Never appealed to me. Give me a piece of land for a garden and to grow things and live in harmony with nature and I'm very content. I tried to go down the normal path but it never made any sense to me. 30 year mortgage? Been there and at the signing the entire time I am thinking WTH am I doing? Go get a good job and slave away for someone else to make them rich? Not for me. I made my own way with the help of that inner voice.
    We're very much alike in that regard. Money is a poor motivator for me, although when I have none, I do tend to get motivated to go get some.
    In the past there wasn't always books and writing. Writing didn't come about until I think the Sumerians about 6000 years ago. Although the Ancient hindu seem to think they have information going back 50 or 60,000 years.
    That's highly speculative. No one knows. It's a belief more than it is an evidence based fact. The Sumerian language is the oldest we know about. And the age of things is total guesswork and opinion, certainly not science.

    .
    I haven't looked into that much but a trip to India is in my very near future.
    That's awesome.
    The point there is that god would have had to communicate with people long before there was writing. Human go back at least 200,000 years. Was there just no god for most of that period?
    How far back humans go is total speculation on everybodys part. But just as any writing is preceeded by idea, so too, communication is not contigent upon writing, but is contingent upon language, or at least upon shared meaning, whether in word, hand sign, or observed action.
    Yes we have Zues and Ra and thoth but where was christianity back then? Plato makes references to events that happened probably around 11,000 years ago but no mention of Christianity in that time period so my guess is Christianity sprung up after the great flood which occurred around that same time period, probably around 11,600 years ago according to some geologic records. Thats when the glaciers melted and great flood occured and where so many stories originated from.
    Everyone explains things on the basis of what history they accept. And the more recent the history, the more that can be known about it. Which is why I don't make ideologies about history which is so far in the past that the gaps of speculation overcome the anchor points of acknowledgable fact.

    Using the bible as a guide as to where Eden was and taking into account that everything was a garden of eden in that area we can deduce that that area's climate was much different at the time. The sahara desert didnt become a desert until about 8000 years ago IIRC. It could have been a bit longer maybe 10-12k years ago but the point is that's when the area would have been the Eden and had the climate to support it. I seem to recall that the next shift back to that climate is still about 13,000 years off. Since that's all caused by the earths wobble which is on a 25800 year cycle I guess 12-13k years ago would be about right. If we take that point as a reference you could of course go back as many cycles as you like to get your starting point. In fact we may have to do that. If that was a time when Giants roamed the earth as well. The Nephelim I think they are called. The problem is there is very little reference made to that period and I think that period also happens before the Garden of Eden. Is that correct?
    Part of the problem with so many books being left out of the bible.
    To me, that's the problem with taking things in ancient literature too "literally". One thing that is evident is that ancient writing was intended to convey meaning, but not necessarily historical accuracy.
    Anyway, yes there are a couple of stories referring back to the beginning but other than that it seems Christianity sprung up maybe 3000 years ago.
    Here I am not talking about Christian references. I tend to look at history and see who's talking about what at the time. Did the Sumerians make any references to Christianity? Not that I am aware of and since they were right there in the heart of it I would have to think they would have written about it often. The Essenes seem to have been around 300-600 BC, somewhere in that time frame.
    Nothing I can identify stands alone historically. Every tradition has prior similarities. Finding the first is an impossiibility in absolute terms.
    True but where do you draw the line? I mean I can sit down and come up with some pretty good rules similar to moses and that's all on my own.
    As can anyone. Several known moral codes predate the biblical one. The question is not who can come up with a moral code, but which one does a person choose to adapt as their own.

    Well, me and that inner voice. Like don't kill. I'm ok with that one, I'm not really much into the whole killing thing anyway. I could have done that on my own.
    .

    This is why in the first century, when Jesus spoke to gentiles, it was the ones who already accepted the Hebrew code who followed Jesus teaching. Those gentiles who didn't were always a hard sell. Which is why, I suspect, so much other tradition was integrated into it later....to enhance marketability.

    My thing is actually that everything has a purpose in nature and I am always looking and thinking about what that purpose is. Right now I even have 2 garden beds I am not using. In those beds weeds are growing everywhere and those weeds provide shelter and flowers for the bees and butterflies. If you look long enough you can see the small beds are teaming with life both above and below the soil line. So yea, thou shalt not kill. Good one.
    How about don't till the land? The forests aren't tilled and they grow things just fine. How about just grind up some leaves and plant in that? Feed the soil while you feed yourself.. Plenty of info out there on how and why that works.
    I'm a permaculture guy....preaching to the choir.
    So, did moses really do anything special here? He threw some stuff out there that should have been common sense anyway. :).
    Yes he did. He made a moral code that defines a nation, rather than a nation that has a moral code. A new thing in known history.




    Who was God speaking to here? Surely if only he knew good and evil he would have said the man has become like me. And what is this tree of life? :)
    Several traditions which speak into that. I go with the explanation which comes from the people who's tradition it is.
    I've been to several 3rd world countries. I'm a very unselfish person. Kind and generous and always will to help others and share with others. I propagate fig trees, around 100 different varieties and share them with whomever wants one. I share my knowledge with whomever will listen. I do unto others as I would want done unto me, however normally I just do unto others. I have a very hard time accepting anything from anyone. I'd rather give than receive.
    Awesome.
    I havent heard this before. Can you give me some reference to research this one?
    From Exodus, at Sinai, in explicit terms.


    That's why I cant really go by the book. Adam and Eve hid from God who was walking through the garden. Seems like he was sort of like a regular person. By the book anyway, especially when he cried out "where are you?" People have told me god is everywhere, god is all knowing, he is in everything and everywhere at once. (Sort of like sunlight:) ) Anyway, Maybe back then he was just tired and couldnt find them in the garden. :)
    Here is another reason I think the book was written by man and not God. Back then man knew about the earth and they thought everything revolved around the earth. Wasn't it Capernicus that was imprisoned when he told the world that the Earth orbits the sun? These are things that god knew and by default the Church should have also known.
    And I'm not going to try and convince you that you should go by it. You have your own system and ethic that you trust more....so what more is there to say?

    My intention is not to tell anyone what to believe. At the end of the day I am just pointing out some realities.
    As much speculation as reality, but hey, it's what you believe. We all fill in the gaps with something.....

    My prediction for the future is that we will get it together as a species. We will develop technology so we can stop killing the planet and within probably 2 centuries we will be traveling to other solar systems within our own galaxy. Our technology is advancing at hyperspeed.
    That's my vision of the future and I know that doesn't fit with revelations but I cant imagine any god creating such beauty and then wanting it all to come to an end. That doesn't fit with my vision of a kind loving god.
    That can happen in one of a few possible ways. Utopian perspectives abound....see my signature line.

    I'm not into the church perspective either, it's the other extreme of the utopian one in my signature line.
    Last edited by Wiskey Reb; 07-27-2017 at 10:27 AM.
    There is a great danger that people are taking refuge in magical thinking, which today takes one of four forms: the far right, the far left, religious extremism and aggressive secularism. The far right seeks a return to a golden past that never was. The far left seeks a utopian future that will never be. Religious extremists believe you can bring salvation by force. Aggressive secularists believe that if you get rid of religion there will be peace. -Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

  9. #189
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    Is that inner voice that guides us all the voice of god?


    Yes.
    Just wanting to clarify... My meaning in stating that is G-d communicates with everyone, not that everyone's inner voice = G-d.
    There is a great danger that people are taking refuge in magical thinking, which today takes one of four forms: the far right, the far left, religious extremism and aggressive secularism. The far right seeks a return to a golden past that never was. The far left seeks a utopian future that will never be. Religious extremists believe you can bring salvation by force. Aggressive secularists believe that if you get rid of religion there will be peace. -Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

  10. #190
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    Thanks for the clarification, Wiskey. Agree!

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