I get that, too, richieryan. He thinks he is right, of course, and that his heart is in the right place. I get that, too. I am convinced that God will have us all come to repentance and knowledge of the truth, and that He is most certainly able to accomplish His will, despite "will worshippers" unbelief. I will try to comment on forty9er's questions after I read your contribution from Martin, which I assume is Mr. Zender. Thanks