Erev Yom Kippur

[Wiskey Reb]

[QUOTE]

I agree that there is no point in continuing but it just illustrates the great divide between us. It seems like you will take an opposing view to any and all orthodox Christian doctrines,

Just now able get back to the thread. My issue is not with "Orthodox Christianity", which is far too broad of an umbrella for any real discourse to occur. Rather, it is with orthodox Protestantism. Actually, there are many things in the Orthodox church which I have not many problems with, including the basic outline of their trinitarian position, which varies from orthodox Protestantism. And yes, part of my big issue with Protestantism is its emphasis on a doctrinal system for salvation, which makes you solidly within the Protestant camp.

almost like your assumption is that if it is orthodox then by definition it must be wrong. I can't think of even one basic Christian doctrine that you would agree with without modifying substantially in some way. Your bias against everything Christian is showing and that appears to be the lens that you are viewing things through.

This is the problem in attempting to discuss anything with you. You think that your viewpoint (your doctrinal lense) represents "orthodoxy" on the whole, meaning both the oldest and majority non-Catholic perspective...it does not. Protestant "orthodoxy" is barely 500 years old and no direct line of "apostolic succession" can be identified, unlike Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Judaism, which all seek to directly connect its teachings to those who taught it earliest rather than a perceived existance of a doctrine which somehow skipped over 1000 years of direct succession between the last councils and the reformation. Teaching or doctrine without historic basis is opinion....protestantism is a religion of opinions, yet their doctrinal filter is seen to suffice as intrinsic proof for its antiquity in leiu of any identifiable succession of teaching. But there is much of the original Hebrew faith that permeates both the original Orthodox Christianity (not to be mistaken for othodox Protestantism) and Catholic tradition which is taken directly from its Jewish roots. So, SDA, Mormons, JW's, WWCOG, Mennenites, etc are merely daughters of Protestantism, which accepts that the holy spirit, through one, or a few, individual(s) skipped over most of post 70ad history in order to re-establish right religion at a later time.

On the other hand, you might accuse me of blindly taking the orthodox viewpoint but that isn't what I do. I study the Scriptures independently and only accept those doctrines which are supported by Scripture. If there is some orthodox doctrine that I don't feel is well supported by Scripture then I will set it aside. I feel no obligation to accept anything just because it is somehow viewed as orthodox.

I don't accuse you of blindly doing anything, especially not of embracing an ancient Orthodox viewpoint. I do strongly and directly infer that your positions are resultant from a doctrinal lense through which you have chosen to view things, which you think is merely scriptural exactitude and not interpretive opinion. This is the "orthodox Protestant" MO...viewing the exercise of objectivity as necessarily requiring one to conclude Protestant doctrines as the basis for eternal right and the obvious right interpretive lense for the reading of scripture.

The fact is, that the basic tenents I embrace, with the exception of one(see #7 below), fall quite easily within those of most of Christianity (except that they are the 13 principles of Judaism) . They are as follows:

1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.
2. The belief in G‑d's absolute and unparalleled unity.
3. The belief in G‑d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.
4. The belief in G‑d's eternity.
5. The imperative to worship G‑d exclusively and no foreign false gods.
6. The belief that G‑d communicates with man through prophecy.
7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.
8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.
9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.
10. The belief in G‑d's omniscience and providence.
11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.
12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.
13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.