BugoutBear, you're a convert to Judaism, right? I remember us discussing that before, but wanted to make sure I was remembering right. Not that it matters. I just wanted it to be clear for me as I continue to read this thread.
Senator
BugoutBear, you're a convert to Judaism, right? I remember us discussing that before, but wanted to make sure I was remembering right. Not that it matters. I just wanted it to be clear for me as I continue to read this thread.
Judge
That is correct.Originally Posted by Sherree
I had been studying for 11 years 3-4 times a week and keeping Kosher anyway. When I announced my intentions in class one evening both my Rabbi and Mrs. Bear fell out of their chairs. Chabad doesn't seek converts, quite the opposite. I had to ask and be turned down 3 times.
I studied with a Lubavitch Rav in Monsey NY for a year and then had the ceremony. Now I can legally emigrate to Israel. Full frontal Chabad: Keep Shabbat, pray 3x a day, black hat & beard, wear tallit and tzitzit, keep Kosher, wear a kippah (“Yid Lid”), etc.
Immediately following the ceremony Mrs. Bear and I had to get re-married that evening under the chuppah. Lots of people including 6 Rabbis showed up with no advanced notice. Long day.
Remember the Prepper's Motto: "Panic early and avoid the rush!"
Everything I post is Fiction and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone.
88 = Heil Hitler
Senator
Thanks for refreshing my memory, BoB. I thought that I was correct, but wanted to make sure. Give my regards to Mrs. Bear. She still has my respect.
Senator
[QUOTE]Just now able get back to the thread. My issue is not with "Orthodox Christianity", which is far too broad of an umbrella for any real discourse to occur. Rather, it is with orthodox Protestantism. Actually, there are many things in the Orthodox church which I have not many problems with, including the basic outline of their trinitarian position, which varies from orthodox Protestantism. And yes, part of my big issue with Protestantism is its emphasis on a doctrinal system for salvation, which makes you solidly within the Protestant camp.
This is the problem in attempting to discuss anything with you. You think that your viewpoint (your doctrinal lense) represents "orthodoxy" on the whole, meaning both the oldest and majority non-Catholic perspective...it does not. Protestant "orthodoxy" is barely 500 years old and no direct line of "apostolic succession" can be identified, unlike Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Judaism, which all seek to directly connect its teachings to those who taught it earliest rather than a perceived existance of a doctrine which somehow skipped over 1000 years of direct succession between the last councils and the reformation. Teaching or doctrine without historic basis is opinion....protestantism is a religion of opinions, yet their doctrinal filter is seen to suffice as intrinsic proof for its antiquity in leiu of any identifiable succession of teaching. But there is much of the original Hebrew faith that permeates both the original Orthodox Christianity (not to be mistaken for othodox Protestantism) and Catholic tradition which is taken directly from its Jewish roots. So, SDA, Mormons, JW's, WWCOG, Mennenites, etc are merely daughters of Protestantism, which accepts that the holy spirit, through one, or a few, individual(s) skipped over most of post 70ad history in order to re-establish right religion at a later time.almost like your assumption is that if it is orthodox then by definition it must be wrong. I can't think of even one basic Christian doctrine that you would agree with without modifying substantially in some way. Your bias against everything Christian is showing and that appears to be the lens that you are viewing things through.
I don't accuse you of blindly doing anything, especially not of embracing an ancient Orthodox viewpoint. I do strongly and directly infer that your positions are resultant from a doctrinal lense through which you have chosen to view things, which you think is merely scriptural exactitude and not interpretive opinion. This is the "orthodox Protestant" MO...viewing the exercise of objectivity as necessarily requiring one to conclude Protestant doctrines as the basis for eternal right and the obvious right interpretive lense for the reading of scripture.On the other hand, you might accuse me of blindly taking the orthodox viewpoint but that isn't what I do. I study the Scriptures independently and only accept those doctrines which are supported by Scripture. If there is some orthodox doctrine that I don't feel is well supported by Scripture then I will set it aside. I feel no obligation to accept anything just because it is somehow viewed as orthodox.
The fact is, that the basic tenents I embrace, with the exception of one(see #7 below), fall quite easily within those of most of Christianity (except that they are the 13 principles of Judaism) . They are as follows:
1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.
2. The belief in G‑d's absolute and unparalleled unity.
3. The belief in G‑d's non-corporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.
4. The belief in G‑d's eternity.
5. The imperative to worship G‑d exclusively and no foreign false gods.
6. The belief that G‑d communicates with man through prophecy.
7. The belief in the primacy of the prophecy of Moses our teacher.
8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.
9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.
10. The belief in G‑d's omniscience and providence.
11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.
12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.
13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.
Last edited by Wiskey Reb; 10-09-2017 at 11:27 AM.
But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.
I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.
(Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)
Senator
Also, because my words are often misconstrued, I want to clarify that I would never be accepted, nor would I desire it, into any of the four branches of Orthodox Christianity any more than into Protestantism. But there are certainly traditions, positions and even doctrines in both that I agree with, at least in principle if not specifics. This idea that I'm opposed to anything Christian just for the cause of being opposed is unfounded altogether. After all, those Christian traditions had their origins in Judaism, and there exists substantial overlap. Just because Christians have lost the foundation from where their teachings originated does not make the teachings themselves unfounded.
Last edited by Wiskey Reb; 10-09-2017 at 12:19 PM.
But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.
I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.
(Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)
Senator
[QUOTE]Teshuva is incredible. And I know it applies in my case. As a Jew, you've taken on a different role, no? Your role is to put on tzitzit. Mine is to take hold of them.
That was me....repairing what I can.It's only when someone comes along and says "It's my way or you go to hell." They're the ones I have no time for.
But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.
I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.
(Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)
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