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Thread: The King James Bible Defended

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Look4Truth
    A good old fashioned book burning eh? Exactly which versions would you like to torch? Would you like to include some folk in the burning as well?

    KJV-onyism is a form of idolatry, it removes the focus on God and places it on an object. It places higher value on a version instead of placing emphasis on the Gospel message of salvation through faith and grace alone. The focus becomes on defending an image instead of the message.

    And there is the crux of the issue.
    KJV-onlyism is Idolatry. Plain & simple.
    _______________________________________

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsX View Post
    How ironic... Edomite "Jews" in Jesus' day said similar things about Him.

    Their lack of understanding, overt attacks and repeated attempts to kill Jesus proved
    they didn't belong to Him because they were descendants of Edomite converts, not Israelites.
    Suck it up cupcake. I have to fend off several at a time around here on a regular basis. And I'm not crying or using martyr fallacies to shame my way into an easy ride. Taking flack is not evidence of right. Get over your messiah complex and simply be honest and forthcoming about your position.

    Your skirting the issue is not equivalent to Jesus speaking in parables, nor is anyone wishing to harm you. Rather, it has beenmany with your mentality that has been responsible for violence.
    There is a great danger that people are taking refuge in magical thinking, which today takes one of four forms: the far right, the far left, religious extremism and aggressive secularism. The far right seeks a return to a golden past that never was. The far left seeks a utopian future that will never be. Religious extremists believe you can bring salvation by force. Aggressive secularists believe that if you get rid of religion there will be peace. -Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

  3. #103
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    About this edomite issue, obviously you've been fed, or made up, a fake version of history. While it's true that certain idumeans had made their way into Jewish leadership, there were more than one sect occupying Judean aristocracy, and by no means all idumean. There were also hellenized Jews, Roman implants, as well as a few good guys. The rank and file levites were legitimate. It was certain higher ranking leaders who had purchased their office. The Saducces, of the school of Shammai, while hating these imposters, forged an alliance with them on the basis of two things, first, their rejection of an afterlife, a messianic reign and anything outside of the five books of the Torah as authoritative. The second thing they had in common is a hatred for the Pharisees, a loathing for non-Judean Jews, and the synagogue, with which a two century power struggle was ongoing.

    The Pharisees, on the other hand, were made up of several schools of thought, some better than others. But they ran the synagogue system. Elements of both hated Jesus. The Saducees and Judean authorities hated him because he recognized their illigitimacy and in doing so, affirmed that the seat of Moses, given in Torah to the priests and levites, had defaulted to the synagogue.

    On the other hand, some Pharisees hated him because he had competed with them for honor and won. Honor and recognition was of primary importance in that culture, and it was seen as afinite commodity.....one they resented sharing with Jesus, even though he affirmed their authority.

    Now to Jesus only coming for the lost tribes and the southern kingdom. This is true with one huge caveat.....the Torah. In no way can one twist the Hebrew language enough to make a goyim into a Jew. But a Jew could be assimilated and become intigrated and effectively a goyim/ gentile/ nations. If any sojourner came from outside the people, they were to be treated as a native born, even though they were not native born....this means people of other genetic make-up. This idea that Moses wife and the Ethiopian eunuch were white may be your doctrine, but you cannot establish that from either scripture or history. Even the fact that there were and are white Ethiopians proves nothing, especially not that they were genetic Israelites.

    But claiming that Christians are Jews and that they are the lost tribes is simply ridiculous. The coming together in that time of Northern and southern kingdom began long before Jesus was born, and continued after his death.....not in Christianity, but in rabbinic Judaism. For several centuries after Jesus, the diaspora maintained close relations with the Jewish community....until Christian Rome broke it up by force. And those Jews have an unbroken record of independant existence from prior to the first century to the present day. On the other hand, Christianity has been assimilating peoples, nationalities, colors and genes for two thousand years. Have you had a DNA test to establish the purity of your ancestry? And if you are relying on pure germanic DNA, I have to clue you in, there's no such thing....

    Now, I can quote you probably a dozen historians who record as I've stated independently. My guess is that you have one source for your version, maybe two....but I'm open to being wrong about that.

    So, if you want to dive into the Hebrew language, or examine the whole witness of history, let's go. And if you think you are some pure blooded remnant, that is a faith choice of belief that I highly doubt you can prove. You are simply going off your interpretive doctrine rather than objective factual data of any sort.
    There is a great danger that people are taking refuge in magical thinking, which today takes one of four forms: the far right, the far left, religious extremism and aggressive secularism. The far right seeks a return to a golden past that never was. The far left seeks a utopian future that will never be. Religious extremists believe you can bring salvation by force. Aggressive secularists believe that if you get rid of religion there will be peace. -Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsX
    Instead of just giving a short answer... I took the liberty of giving a detailed Biblical explanation
    why God only has one special people, Israelites [yes, they are White] to whom God gave the
    promises. Israelites to and for whom Jesus came. Israelites who God foreknew, God justified
    and God glorified. The entire Bible revolves around God's relationship with Israel... other races
    are mentioned only when they interact with Israelites. In the OT, God was married to Israel
    and called Israelites His children.

    When the non-Israelite woman came to Jesus for help, the disciples wanted Jesus to send her
    away. Jesus told her He was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. But the woman persisted.
    Jesus told her it is not right to take the children's [ie, Israel's] bread and cast it to the dogs.
    She didn't argue. She said, yes, Lord, but dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table.
    Jesus was impressed with her understanding and granted her request.

    The church age, the 1000 year reigning with Christ, has ended. We are now in the terrible time
    of Gog/Magog's destroying global hordes invading the lands of God's Christian Israel people who
    have regressed into sinful rebellion. This is where God directly intervenes.
    .
    The entire creation groans for the final manifestation of the sons of God [Israelites], their resurrection
    and translation into immortal bodies at Jesus' second coming.
    Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I don't agree with your interpretation, but seldom does anyone here in The Chapel agree 100%. Because of that, I gave up on debating with anyone over doctrine. Instead I learn by what others have to say in the very lively discussions that go on here from time to time. I really like asking questions, though.

  5. #105
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    As already stated several translations had a single translator. Those noted so far are: The Scriptures, The New World Translation, The Amplified Bible, and the Book of Mormon, there may be others.

    Now the question is, do you trust a single individual to translate the entire Bible without having some prejudices, and then inserting those prejudices/POV/slants into the text?

    If you hold the same prejudices/POV/slants as the translator then you probably don't think anything of it. You, and the translator agree.

    So would having a committee correct this?

    Not necessarily. It would depend on who is on the committee, or translation team. And would that team put in place not only any personal perspectives/POV's/prejudices, but also any more modern trends or tendencies in society.

    In society today, including churches, it has become acceptable, and even to a point, forced on people that Homosexuality, transgender, and LBGT is OK, and even doctrinal.

    This year is the first time, at least since 1611 that the KJV has been outsold. The new No. 1 Bible in the world is the NIV. And the main reason people use it, is because it is easier to read. I will note this: just because something is hard to do, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. And because the KJV isn't our normal language, it's actually easier to memorize accurately.

    On the NIV committee or team: snippets from http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv..._committee.htm

    The man appointed to be the Chairman of the Old Testament Committee of the NIV Committee on Bible Translation, Dr. Marten Woudstra, was a homosexual. Also, Virginia Mollenkott, who worked as the stylistic editor for the translation, is a proud lesbian. Some of Dr. Woudsta's collaborators on the NIV knew about his homosexuality years ago during the translation process. The fact that a homosexual oversaw the translating of the Old Testament should be alarming to anyone who loves the Lord Jesus Christ and recognizes the Word of God as the most important Book in their life. The sad truth is that at least two known homosexuals influenced the NIV used in most churches today. The following quote was ascribed to Dr. Woudstra, Chairman of the NIV Old Testament Committee:
    "There is nothing in the Old Testament that corresponds to homosexuality as we understand it today."
    Dr. Virginia Mollenkott, a literary critic on the NIV translation is an open lesbian. In the Episcopal magazine, Witness (June 1991, pp. 20-23), she admits,
    “My homosexuality has always been a part of me...”
    Although Mollenkott's lesbianism may possibly have been concealed from the NIV translators at the time she worked with them, the fact of the matter is that she did have an influential part as a literary critic in the work. Albeit, the flaming homosexuality of Dr. Marten Woudstra was no secret to the Committee On Biblical Translation (CBT). Woudstra was the chairman, the top man in charge of the Old Testament work of translation.
    The Bible is our Final Authority and is not something that was intended to read like the Sunday paper nor a comic book. The Bible was Authored by an authoritative God Who hates sin and called homosexuals “sodomites” for a reason, that is, to associate the sin of homosexuality with the wicked city of Sodom, which God utterly destroyed with fire and brimstone as an EXAMPLE of what would happen to all the wicked, which definitely includes lesbians and homosexuals. Jude 1:7, “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” No wonder why you can't find the word “sodomite” in the NIV? Look it up in Deuteronomy 23:17, I Kings 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, II Kings 23:7. Do you think an avowed homosexual put her two cents in it? If so, what about “the accuracy” everybody's talking about? Dr. Woudstra was the CHAIRMAN of the Old Testament committee and chose to remove the word “sodomites” from the Bible entirely.
    And it should be noted as to what texts were used:

    The parent company (Harper Collins) who publishes the NIV, also publishes The Joy of Gay Sex, and The Satanic Bible. It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to figure this out folks. The NIV is evil and corrupt.Furthermore, the NIV is based upon the work of two of the biggest heretics and occultists of all time--Westcott and Hort. Westcott himself was one of the founders of the Cambridge Ghost Society. Westcott and Hort were psychic Ghost Hunters. Not to mention that the NIV was translated from the corrupted Alexandrian Greek texts.
    People smash their Keurig's for pulling adds on Hannity, but it's OK for the NIV Bible Publishers to publish the Satanic Bible.

    For reference Westcott and Hort found (Two people instead of one) and then published a New Testament Version based on the Alexandrian Greek texts, in 1889, IIRC. Which was some 200+ years after the 1611 KJV. Which was what the RSV was based on, (for clarity The RSV was based on the Westcott and Hort NT, and Alexandrian Greek Texts) and then the ASV was a rewrite of the RSV in 1901.

    And in another thread there was much ado said about C. I. Scoffield who only published a COMMENTARY in accompanying the KJV, in the margins. But it's OK to be an occultists and publish a New Testament, and all other Versions copy them, as an actual Bible not COMMENTARY.

    Makes me wonder if what is going on today in society, and churches, hasn't been influenced in some way by the best selling Bible in the world?

    Know what you use, and do you approve.
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

  6. #106
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    The NIV Teenage Study Bible (if you have a teen should click on link for entire article)

    http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv...le_exposed.htm

    NIV Teen Study Bible Exposed!By Terry Watkins
    Frequently we receive emails or phone calls asking our opinion on the various "teen" Study Bibles. Recently we acquired the Zondervan New International Version [NIV] Teen Study Bible. The NIV Teen Study Bible is the number one selling teen Study Bible, boasting of over one million copies sold. While the NIV Teen Study Bible Scripturally explains many subjects and provides teens with some helpful insights for their teenage world, the Teen Study Bible also contains some very disturbing information. It is especially disturbing in light of the impressionable and often confused teenage mind.
    It is also alarming that a major publisher would include some of the shameful information found in the Teen Study Bible. It is even more disturbing that the staff at Zondervan actually reviewed it, edited it, approved it and published it.
    The Zondervan Teen Study Bible is in the typical "in your face, extreme, radical, graphic, colorful, hip, cool" style that supposedly appeals to the average teenager. Throughout the Teen Study Bible are various notes addressing topics specifically relating to teenagers, such as dating, sex, self-image, school, drugs, et al. Most topics are explained in a fairly, conservative, evangelical, though "watered-down" manner.
    Scattered throughout the Teen Study Bible are 20 full-color pages that Zondervan describes as "a Christian perspective on contemporary issues" and giving "biblical answers to the toughest questions asked by today’s teens". These pages easily stand out from all other pages. They are much thicker and much more graphic and colorful. As I first thumbed through the Teen Bible, my eyes instinctively stopped at these pages. Each page gives a stylish-colorful-wow-teen graphic presentation discussing a specific topic. The topics discussed are sex; money; death; stress; guilt; school; addiction; entertainment; prayer; witnessing; self-image; church; dating; friends; parents; and siblings.
    It is some of the information on these pages that is alarming. These pages give the standard dictionary definition for the topic, and then Zondervan provides an "alternative definition" for the topic. The "alternative definition" is obviously aimed directly at the Christian teenager.
    For instance, on the color presentation page for "money" the Teen Bible gives the standard dictionary meaning: "mon-ey (mun*ee) n. –the official currency, as coins and paper notes issued by a government". And the teen "alternative definition" given is a harmless "—what you never have enough of when you go to the mall". Ok. No problem. Most of the "alternative definitions" are trivial – but some of them are hard to believe. . .
    Take the topic of "sex". The Teen Study Bible gives a standard dictionary definition, but the "alternative definition" is disgusting. Remember this is aimed directly at impressionable Christian teenagers. The "alternate definition" (1993 edition) for "sex" is "—another fun thing mean adults tell teenagers to keep away from."

    Are you listening?
    Sex is "Another FUN THING MEAN adults tell teenagers to keep away from"! Does anyone seriously believe that such an "alternative definition" would DISCOURAGE hormone-crazy, Christian teenagers to abstain from sex? Is that not like throwing fuel on the fire? Can you imagine a parent telling their daughter, "Yes. Honey, we don’t want you to have sex because it’s so much fun".
    Compare the Teen Study Bible’s "alternative definition" with God’s "alternative definition" of "sex":
    2 Timothy 2:22
    Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    Note: God says, not just "abstain" from "youthful lusts" but "FLEE youthful lusts. In other words. . . RUN from them. As FAST and as FAR as you can! "Youthful lusts" will destroy and defile more innocent teenagers than any other temptation. And they can NEVER, EVER get that purity and innocence back! No amount of tears, praying, repenting or sorrow can restore that beautiful God-given purity! And despite the world’s perverted macho attitude — it is as sinful and as tragic for the teenage boy as the teenage girl.
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

  7. #107
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    The following should also be noted:

    Here's a dirty little detail that you probably didn't know about (and the Bible publishers won't dare tell you), and that is, in order to be copyrighted, the law requires for a new work to be substantially and creatively different (more than just editorial changes or minor changes) from existing Bible versions. In other words, being honest, scholarly and correct is secondary to making substantial changes in order to obtain a copyright, whether those translation changes are reasonable and necessary or not. Even in New Testament times, many people were tampering with the Bible. 2nd Corinthians 2:17, “For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.”You need a copyright so that you can exclusively profit financially from your new Bible version, otherwise the public could use it freely and you wouldn't have any enforceable legal rights. Follow the money trail and you'll find the ugly truth! All these Bible-butchering groups are not sincere. The very fact that they are legally required to make major changes to copyright their new PERversion evidences that. These are snowflake Bible versions, that is, no two are the same!
    http://www.jesusisprecious.org/bible/ugly_truth.htm
    Wise Men Still Seek Him

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics View Post
    Dependence on Lew White? What is that all about? I've known Lew for many years, and we butt heads quite often on many issues to this day, but we remain friends. Lew has provided our prison ministry with literally 1000's of Fossilized Customs AT COST as well as many free donations. That little book (much bigger these days) has helped open the eyes of so many in all walks of life to the deceptions of mainstream Christianity. It has been a powerful tool; and remains such to this day. Kosters work also has been used in the same way, Todd Bennetts 'Walk in the Light' series as well...
    Sorry, Off-Grid. Wiskey did not use the term dependence, I did. My bad. I was simply referring to his statement here: "Hopefully the remainders of the Hebrew roots movement will overcome it and outgrow their need for Lew White and company." their need....Guess I heard dependence.

    Like I said, I do not know if the allegations against White are true or trumped up. I enjoyed his book. Glad to know he's helping get the word out!

  9. #109
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    Let's just roll with the idea that KingsX truly believes that only certain groups of White people will be saved. And that God created non white people for the sole purpose of watching then suffer.
    Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium.
    I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.

    I think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.

    My Disqus channel:

    https://disqus.com/by/PierreBezukhov1812/

  10. #110
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    Bringing the conversation back within context of the OP, the kJV only arguement has become much akin to Christian Identity. In the same way that a CI adherant might come to think that only people with certain genetic make-up are acceptable to G-d, so too, one can see the textus receptus as a type of genetic type from which a certain biblical culture emerged. Yet, alongside side that came another biblical culture from the same textual parentage. Copyists of NT letters utilized the documents that were available to them. So, an Alexandrian "genetic" line emerged.

    This was not akin to a Isaac and Ishmael, or Jacob and Esau scenario. This emergence came from two sincere people groups, not one sincere and one rebellious. And this biblical text genetic stand-off is quite recent. What is really happening here is that certain Protestants are defining Christians as unchristian unless one uses their Protestant bible version from their textual lineage. Effectively, it is like Judah telling Benjamin that because Rachel is his mother and not Leah, that Benjamin is not a Jew. Neither Christain traditions left the fold or went into exile fortheir sins, but one is delegitimizing the other nonetheless.

    The KJV only people emphasize that liberalized sects use bibles based on the Alexandrian text. Yet they blind themselves to two facts. First, that sin is just as rampant within their ranks. Second, that a different kind of sin is condoned and encouraged there....a sin of haughtiness, exclusivity, legalism and false piety. Each are equally as damaging, yet pride and arrogance has caused blindness. They certainly have no space to look down their noses at Jews. Large parts of all those populations have effectively denied messiah in their attitudes, doctrines, and false emphasis on non-essentials, spiritually murdering the other party. Yet they sit, self assured that the world to come belongs to their camp, and assess everyone else with a trantrum pitching disposition of a spoiled brat who can't have everyone else's toys. So they make up conspiracy theories regarding the other side and hide the bones in their own closet.
    There is a great danger that people are taking refuge in magical thinking, which today takes one of four forms: the far right, the far left, religious extremism and aggressive secularism. The far right seeks a return to a golden past that never was. The far left seeks a utopian future that will never be. Religious extremists believe you can bring salvation by force. Aggressive secularists believe that if you get rid of religion there will be peace. -Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks

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