The King James Bible Defended

[Off-Grid Organics]

A strong possibility exists that Paul knew and spoke (or at least could function in) biblical Hebrew

Though evidence is lacking in this thread, we do have evidence of that!

Act 26:14 “And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me, and saying in the Heḇrew language,1 ‘Sha’ul, Sha’ul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the prods.’ Footnote: 1See 21:40, 22:2.

Act 21:40 And having given him permission, Sha’ul, standing on the stairs motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great silence, he spoke in the Heḇrew language, saying,1 Footnote: 1See 22:2, 26:14.

Act 22:2 And when they heard that he spoke to them in the Heḇrew language,1 they kept greater silence. And he said: Footnote: 1See 21:40, 26:14.

[Wiskey Reb]

Though evidence is lacking in this thread....

Lacking, but not absent. There just isn't enough on any side to make a definitive claim. But evidence? Yes.

Act 21:40 And having given him permission, Sha’ul, standing on the stairs motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great silence, he spoke in the Heḇrew language, saying

Yep, so Paul spoke Hebrew. Now let's look at the conversation just prior...

37 Then as Paul was about to be led into the barracks, he said to the commander, “May I speak to you?”
He replied, “Can you speak Greek? 38 eAre you not the Egyptian who some time ago stirred up a rebellion and led the four thousand assassins out into the wilderness?”
39 But Paul said, f“I am a Jew from Tarsus, in Cilicia, a citizen of no 1mean city; and I implore you, permit me to speak to the people.”

So it's evident that Paul spoke Hebrew and Greek. Not surprising for a Roman citizen from Tarsus.

[CaryC]

Concerning:

The Aramaic New Testament of the Bible exists in two forms: (1) the classical Aramaic, or Syriac, New Testament, part of the Pe****ta Bible, or "Pe****ta" (2) the "Assyrian Modern" New Testament and Psalms, published by the Bible Society in Lebanon (1997) and newly translated from Koine Greek. The official Assyrian Church of the East (known by some as the Nestorian Church) does not recognise the new "Assyrian Modern" edition, and traditionally considers the New Testament of the Pe****ta to be the original New Testament, and Aramaic to be its original language. This view was popularised in the West by the Assyrian Church of the East scholar George Lamsa, but is not supported by the majority of scholars, either of the Pe****ta or the Greek New Testament.

Clicking around on the internet and came across this: Of special note: because of the spelling one gets ***** for a word, so am putting a dash (-) in so you will get the whole spelling. Just know the actual word does not have a dash.

New Testament Pesh-itta[edit]

The Pesh-itta version of the New Testament is thought to show a continuation of the tradition of the Diatessaron and Old Syriac versions, displaying some lively 'Western' renderings (particularly clear in the Acts of the Apostles). It combines this with some of the more complex 'Byzantine' readings of the 5th century CE. It contains the unusual feature of the absence of 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, and Revelation, however, modern Syriac Bibles add 6th- or 7th-century translations of these five books to a revised Pesh-itta text.
With this understood, almost all Syriac scholars agree that the Pesh-itta gospels are translations of the Greek originals. However, there is a minority viewpoint in scholarship that the Aramaic New Testament of the Pe****ta represents the original New Testament and the Greek is a translation of it. The type of text represented by Pesh-itta is the Byzantine. In a detailed examination of Matthew 1–14, Gwilliam found that the Pesh-itta agrees with the Textus Receptus only 108 times and with Codex Vaticanus 65 times. Meanwhile, in 137 instances it differs from both, usually with the support of the Old Syriac and the Old Latin, and in 31 instances it stands alone.^[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe****ta

It's a rather long article, but in that same article, I came across a couple of interesting comments.

It seems that some (minority) see/believe that the Greek manuscripts were translations from Pesh-itta, or Aramaic, also believe the Hebrew Old Testament was too. Meaning that the original manuscripts for the Old Testament were also originally written in Aramaic, and then translated into Hebrew. However, it seems scholars can tell the Pesh-itta was translated from the LXX, the Greek Old Testament.

It also seems that the Pesh-itta can't be traced back any further than the 5th Century AD, same time frame as the Latin Vulgate.

Just saying.

[Wiskey Reb]

Overall, that pretty much matches what I think i know....

Yet, the Syrian orthodox tradition is arguably the oldest continuous denomination. It's big claim which gave it a heretical label in the western church was nestorianism, which is broadly accepted now, if not as doctrine, certainly as a functional truth.

[Wiskey Reb]

An interesting related bit of news on COC today. New evidence keeps turning up. Off Grid, this'll be of interest to you I think. Check out the book reviews on Amazon.
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/s...ses-Vindicated

[watchman]

Few realize that EVERY KJV Bible published for the first 200 years or so...Contained two parts that are discarded today... These are the Apocrapha, which they placed between the Old and New Testaments, but to me most important, a 14 page letter which prefaced the old testament. In this letter the translators ADMITTED that their translation was not absolute, and left a numbered list of original words, which we use today as Strongs Concordance and Brown-Briggs Driver Concordance for old testament Hebrew/Chaldee, for the reader to verify their translation for themselves.

The first and most obvious boo-boo is in the first few words of Gen 1:2.

So,Yes, there ARE 'mistakes' in the KJV translation. Yes, your "good 'ol KJV" The translators did their best, supposedly, but there are places where the Satan of modern thinking has caused much confusion, and gave space to things such as 'Scientists' disregarding the Word.

And what IS this boo-boo?

Predominantly it is the English word "was"...but it is compounded by not expressing "without form" and void" in their true context.

I need not remind you of the result of that 'error', for indeed, that is the best that can be said about it.


2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

In verse 2 we only have to look at four words to understand man’s supposed ‘gap”… specifically, the words ‘was’, ‘without form’ and ‘void’.

The word translated ‘was’ is in Hebrew ….

1961 hayah (haw-yaw); (Strongs definition)-
a primitive root [compare 1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): and in the KJV it is interpreted-- beacon, X altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, X use.

NOTICE…it is NOT translated ‘was’ in the entire OT, yet what have we in Gen 1:2?

1961 hayah- (Brown-Driver- Briggs definition) AGAIN…no ‘was’…hmm curious indeed. Here hayah is translated lots of ways…but NEVER ’was’

to be, to become, to come to pass, to exist, to happen, to fall out
a) (Qal)
1) to befall
a) to happen, to fall out, to occur, to take place, to come about, to come to pass
b) to come about, to come to pass
2) to come into being, to become
a) to arise, to appear, to come
b) to become
1) to become
2) to become like
3) to be instituted, to be established
3) to be
a) to exist, to be in existence
b) to abide, to remain, to continue (with word of place or time)
c) to stand, to lie, to be in, to be at, to be situated (with word of locality)
d) to accompany, to be with
b) (Niphal)
1) to occur, to come to pass, to be done, to be brought about
2) to be done, to be finished, to be gone

Is that strange or what?

Now we look at without form, which religion loves to use ‘nothing’ and science loves ‘gas’… but remember.. verse 1 said the earth was created, and thus it certainly was not ‘without form‘.

but here’s the definition of the word.

8414 tohuw-(Brown-Driver- Briggs definition)

formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness
a) formlessness (used of primeval earth); nothingness, empty space
b) what is empty or unreal (used of idols) (figurative)
c) wasteland, wilderness (used of solitary places)
d) place of chaos
e) vanity

8414 tohuw (to'-hoo); - (Strongs definition)

from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:

KJV-- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

So choose one. But since it already existed, it could not be nothingness or empty space or unreal.

Now, about ‘void’

922 bohuw- (Strongs definition)

emptiness, void, waste


922 bohuw (bo'-hoo); (Brown-Driver- Briggs definition)

from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:

KJV-- emptiness, void.

Well, now, no apologies to the translators, but….shouldn't one who desires truth at least use the concordance roadmaps they offered?

[Forty9er]

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

In verse 2 we only have to look at four words to understand man’s supposed ‘gap”… specifically, the words ‘was’, ‘without form’ and ‘void’.

The word translated ‘was’ is in Hebrew ….

1961 hayah (haw-yaw); (Strongs definition)-
a primitive root [compare 1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): and in the KJV it is interpreted-- beacon, X altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, X use.

NOTICE…it is NOT translated ‘was’ in the entire OT, yet what have we in Gen 1:2?

I think you should at least get your facts right before you make conclusions about them. For example:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent H5175 was H1961 more subtil H6175 than any beast H2416 of the field H7704 which the LORD H3068 God H430 had made H6213. And he said H559 unto the woman H802, Yea H637, hath God H430 said H559, Ye shall not eat H398 of every tree H6086 of the garden H1588?

Exod 5:13 And the taskmasters H5065 hasted H213 them, saying H559, Fulfil H3615 your works H4639, your daily H3117 tasks H1697, as when there was H1961 straw H8401.

Zech 8:10 For before H6440 these days H3117 there was H1961 no hire H7939 for man H120, nor any hire H7939 for beast H929; neither was there any peace H7965 to him that went out H3318 or came in H935 because of the affliction H6862: for I set H7971 all men H120 every one H376 against his neighbour H7453.

[watchman]

I think you should at least get your facts right before you make conclusions about them. For example:

In retrospect I suppose my wording should have been "…Hayah is Never PROPERLY translated in english as ‘was’ in the entire OT, and what have we in Gen 1:2?"

And even though that change does not alter the 'facts' that were posted.... I trust it clarifies....
Or, IOW every verse you quoted, hayah is of true meaning when translated as became' or 'came to pass' or possibly 'it happened that".

In fact, to this day, there is no Hebrew equivalent word to the English "was". Look for yourself.

http://www.dictionary.co.il/search.php

[Bezukhov]

Is this curable, or at least treatable?

KJV-Only Pastor Tests Positive For NIV
Satire

http://babylonbee.com/news/kjv-only-...itive-for-niv/

[LouKy]

You mean the queen james version? Sad but true.
__________________________________________________ __________________________

Jonathan Williams Legions of Satan (1781)
Jonathan Williams recorded in his Legions of Satan (1781) that General Cornwallis revealed to General Washington during the signing of the Article of Capitulation signed by Cornwallis at Yorktown that,
"A holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown." Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction, "Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for Divine World Government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire.

( Hitlery Clinton proved that when said, " We came, we saw, they died, we need to open a bank."
Anybody want to bet that is the Rothchilds Bank of London? Only 2 nations left without a Central Bank of London, owned by Rothchilds. North Korea and Iran)
.
All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses,
and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry."

General Cornwallis to General Washington as recorded by Jonathan Williams, ‘Legions of Satan.'
__________________________________________________ __________________________

How many folks know that King James (who commissioned the King James Bible and to whom it was dedicated) loved men and had sex with them? At the age of thirteen James fell madly in love with his male cousin Esmé Stuart whom he made Duke of Lennox. James deferred to Esmé to the consternation of his ministers. In 1582 James was kidnapped and forced to issue a proclamation against his lover and send him back to France.

Later, James fell in love with a poor young Scotsman named Robert Carr. “The king leans on his [Carrs] arm, pinches his cheeks, smooths his ruffled garment, and when he looks upon Carr, directs his speech to others.”
—Thomas Howard, Earl of Suffolk, in a letter, 1611

Carr eventually ended the relationship after which the king expressed his dissatisfaction in a letter to Carr, “I leave out of this reckoning your long creeping back and withdrawing yourself from lying in my chamber, notwithstanding my many hundred times earnest soliciting you to the contrary...Remember that (since I am king) all your being, except your breathing and soul, is from me.” (See The Letters of King James I & VI, ed., G. P. V. Akrigg, Univ. of Calif. Press, 1984. Also see Royal Family, Royal Lovers: King James of England and Scotland, David M. Bergeron, Univ. of Missouri Press, 1991)
—Skip Church

King James favorite male lovers were the Earl of Somerset and the Duke of Buckingham.
—Ben Edward Akerly

James sexual orientation was so widely known that Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it in public saying “King Elizabeth” had been succeeded by “Queen James.”
—Catherine D. Bowen, The Lion and the Throne

King James 1 was a known homosexual who murdered his young lovers and victimized countless heretics and women.
—Otto J. Scott, James the First

Desiderius Erasmus was a “Christian humanist” who collected Greek (and Latin) New Testament manuscripts and compared and edited them, verse by verse, selecting what he considered to be the best variant passages, until he had compiled what came to be known as the “textus receptus.” Early English translations of the Bible, like those mentioned above, were based on his “textus receptus.” Erasmus was also a monk whom some historians believe engaged in homosexual activities.

But without both King James and Erasmus, the most widely touted Bible in Christian history would never have been produced, the KJV (or shall we say, Gay-JV?) Bible.
—Skip Church

A physical weakling, as an adolescent James had shown himself to be a coward, who liked only to hunt, (perfect description of Esau) to read (which he did, prodigiously) and to talk. To protect himself he wore thick quilted doublets, so padded that they provided a kind of armor against any assassin who might attack him with a knife. When he revealed a sexual preference for men, falling in love with his cousin Esmé Stewart and elevating him to a position of authority on the royal council, some of his nobles kidnapped James and held him captive, banishing Stewart and controlling James every move. After nearly a year James escaped, but continued to resent his jailers; after he began to rule on his own behalf, at seventeen, he made it a priority to bring the turbulent Scots nobles under control.

As he aged James indulged his preference for handsome men, living apart from his wife. His doting fondness was part paternal, part erotic; he called his favorite George Villiers “sweet child and wife” and referred to himself as “your dear dad and husband.” But to his courtiers, the sight of the aging, paunchy, balding monarch, who according to one court observer had a tendency to drool, leaning on his paramours was utterly repellant.

The first of the kings minions was Robert Carr, Groom of the Bedchamber, who the king elevated to earl of Somerset and appointed Lord Chamberlain. After six years of favors and royal gifts Carr was brought low, accused of murder and sent away from court. The second and greatest royal favorite, the extraordinarily handsome George Villiers, rose from cupbearer to Gentleman of the Bedchamber and ultimately to Earl of Buckingham.
“I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else,” James announced to his councilors, “and more than you who are here assembled.” He compared his love for the earl to Jesus affection for the “beloved disciple” John. “Jesus Christ did the same,” the king said, “and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his John, and I have my George.”

With such pronouncements King James seemed to reach a new level of outrage, especially when he compounded his offense, in the view of many, by heaping Buckingham with costly jewels, lands, and lucrative offices.

—Royal Panoply, Brief Lives Of The English Monarchs
Carrolly Erickson, History Book Club
__________________________________________________ __________________________

King James gospels are mostly taken from the gnostic books, apocrypha and others.

Just started comparing the Torah and the Tanakh parts with KJ. Right off the bat -animals have spirits.
I think that was Genesis 30 from the Torah.
We are going to take Torah/Tanakh and use the gnostic, apocrypha as gospels. And make our own version that the Edomite Britains hasn't messed with.

The gnostic gospels are super cool, especially the creation of heaven. By the way, the gnostics were the disciples, the knowledge seekers.

I think this is one of the most profound things written Christ ever said.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html

He said to me,
“John, why doubt?
Why be afraid?
Don’t you know this image?
Be not afraid.
I am with you always.
I am The Father, The Mother, The Son.
I am the incorruptible Purity.

I have come to teach you (Christ was a mild teacher, never a preacher. There is a difference.)
About what is
And what was
And what will be
In order for you to understand
The invisible world
And the world that is visible
And the immovable race of perfect humanity.
Raise your head; Understand my lessons;
Share them with any others who have received the spirit,
Who are from the immovable race of perfect humanity.”