more false teaching

[CaryC]

Hi Cary. Good to see you too. I haven't been too active on the board recently. Just taking it easy. You know how it is when you are retired.

With regard to Herod, I wouldn't doubt the article on Wikipedia but I guess my main point is that I really don't care if he is a Jew or not. It makes no difference to what we were discussing.

I just thought it might of been from all that shopping on Black Friday, and was give out, so was going to give you a day or two. LOL

And on the second part, you are so right.

[Wiskey Reb]

Strangely, Herod was of Idumean ancestry yet was a Jew. John Hyrcanus, another illegitimate leader. one of the late Hasmonians and not a good guy, forcefully converted the Idumeans. While many embraced that faith, many more became a hellenized blight on the Jewish nation. As a Roman placement after the Hasmonians were displaced, The herods were hated, just as Hyrcanus was, but because they were Roman shills as well as hellenized Idumeans. Historians claim that the herod of Jesus time wanted to be accepted as a Jew, but his crazed personality combined with his illegitimacy as king would not be forgiven by the rest of the Jews.

[BugoutBear]

Strangely, Herod was of Idumean ancestry yet was a Jew.

There's actually a debate going on for years as to the Jewish status of Herod. His grandfather was given a choice by the Maccabees: convert to Judaism or die. Later it was determined that it was a false conversion. The more stringent Jews of Herod's time claimed he was not Jewish and was appointed "King" over the Jews by the corrupt Roman authority. Herod married a woman from a prominent Jewish family and the dispute tapered off for the most part. But many Jews despised him as a Roman puppet.

Brilliant architect though.

[Wiskey Reb]

There's actually a debate going on for years as to the Jewish status of Herod. His grandfather was given a choice by the Maccabees: convert to Judaism or die. Later it was determined that it was a false conversion. The more stringent Jews of Herod's time claimed he was not Jewish and was appointed "King" over the Jews by the corrupt Roman authority. Herod married a woman from a prominent Jewish family and the dispute tapered off for the most part. But many Jews despised him as a Roman puppet.

Brilliant architect though.

I was not aware of that ruling but it makes sense. Do you have a source for that?

Herods skill at building super-structures gained him little love. Maybe if he hadn't murdered his wife and kids... The saying was " better to be Herod's pig than son".

[BugoutBear]

I was not aware of that ruling but it makes sense. Do you have a source for that?

Aish is a good source for information:
http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48942446.html
History Crash Course #31: Herod the Great
A madman who murdered his own family and many rabbis, Herod was also the greatest builder in Jewish history.
by Rabbi Ken Spiro

Herod, knowing that his Jewish credentials were suspect, had married Miriam ― the granddaughter of Hyrcanus and therefore a Hasmonean princess ― largely to gain legitimacy among the Jewish people.

Herod's children would have been halachically (valid) Jews via their mother, so...

Herod had made Aristobulus High Priest at the age of 17, and watched with trepidation as the young man became hugely popular. This was not surprising as Aristobulus was a Hasmonean with a legitimate right to be High Priest ― a genuine Jew and a genuine cohen.

But this threatened Herod too much and he had him drowned.


Indeed, Herod later became jealous of his own sons for the same reason and had them murdered as well.


And he even had his own wife murdered in a fit of jealousy.

Herod was on shaky ground AFA his "Kingship" was concerned. A valid reason to be a paranoid psychotic I suppose.

Herod's paranoia, his interference with the Temple hierarchy, and his dedication to the Hellenization of the Jewish people all contributed to the growing discontent that would erupt in a revolt against Rome some 70 years after his death.

[Wiskey Reb]

Aish is a good source for information:
http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48942446.html
History Crash Course #31: Herod the Great
A madman who murdered his own family and many rabbis, Herod was also the greatest builder in Jewish history.
by Rabbi Ken Spiro


Herod's children would have been halachically (valid) Jews via their mother, so...

Herod was on shaky ground AFA his "Kingship" was concerned. A valid reason to be a paranoid psychotic I suppose.

Yeah, I read that a while Back.

[KingsX]

Strangely, Herod was of Idumean ancestry yet was a Jew. John Hyrcanus, another illegitimate leader. one of the late Hasmonians and not a good guy, forcefully converted the Idumeans. While many embraced that faith, many more became a hellenized blight on the Jewish nation. As a Roman placement after the Hasmonians were displaced, The herods were hated, just as Hyrcanus was, but because they were Roman shills as well as hellenized Idumeans. Historians claim that the herod of Jesus time wanted to be accepted as a Jew, but his crazed personality combined with his illegitimacy as king would not be forgiven by the rest of the Jews.

Edomites [also called Idumeans by the Greeks and Romans] were the descendants of Esau
and became the enemy of Israel throughout most of the Old Testament. Edomites had allied
with Babylon to destroy Jerusalem and the temple. [Psalm 137:7 & 1 Esdras 4:45.]

Per Josephus, in the 2nd century BC Edomites lost a war against Israel and converted en masse
so they could live in the Kingdom of Israel. In 37BC, Edomite-Jew, Herod, allied with Rome and
conquered Jerusalem. Rome decreed Herod King of Judea. Herod proceeded to murder Israelite
royal heirs of the kingdom. Herod totally tore down the second temple to rebuild his own third temple,
putting his people in charge. Herod tried to destroy God's Temple made without hands, Jesus Christ,
when Herod ordered the slaughter of the babes of Bethlehem. The Edomite-Jew Herod dynasty ruled
Judea until Romans destroyed Jerusalem and Herod's temple in 70AD.

.

[KingsX]

There's actually a debate going on for years as to the Jewish status of Herod. His grandfather was given a choice by the Maccabees: convert to Judaism or die. Later it was determined that it was a false conversion. The more stringent Jews of Herod's time claimed he was not Jewish and was appointed "King" over the Jews by the corrupt Roman authority. Herod married a woman from a prominent Jewish family and the dispute tapered off for the most part. But many Jews despised him as a Roman puppet.

Brilliant architect though.

Edomite-Jew Herod married Mariamne, an Israelite princess, the granddaughter of Hyrcanus II.
Later Herod manipulated her execution as well as the execution of other Israelite royal heirs.

[KingsX]

Herod's children would have been halachically (valid) Jews via their mother, so...

Unlike modern Jews, ancient Israelites were patriarchal, tracing their lineage from father to son as all the many genealogy Bible verses confirm.

[Wiskey Reb]

Edomites [also called Idumeans by the Greeks and Romans] were the descendants of Esau
and became the enemy of Israel throughout most of the Old Testament. Edomites had allied
with Babylon to destroy Jerusalem and the temple. [Psalm 137:7 & 1 Esdras 4:45.]

Per Josephus, in the 2nd century BC Edomites lost a war against Israel and converted en masse
so they could live in the Kingdom of Israel. In 37BC, Edomite-Jew, Herod, allied with Rome and
conquered Jerusalem. Rome decreed Herod King of Judea. Herod proceeded to murder Israelite
royal heirs of the kingdom. Herod totally tore down the second temple to rebuild his own third temple,
putting his people in charge. Herod tried to destroy God's Temple made without hands, Jesus Christ,
when Herod ordered the slaughter of the babes of Bethlehem. The Edomite-Jew Herod dynasty ruled
Judea until Romans destroyed Jerusalem and Herod's temple in 70AD.

.

The Herodian/Idumean dynasty came to an abrupt end in 44 CE. After that time, the tetrarchy was assigned to which ever thug was the flavor of the day for the empire.Perhaps you are thinking of certain Sanhedrin and priestly implants of Rome.