MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT and her merchandise

[Pastor Guest]

"Slaves" or "Bodies"?

We know from Revelation chapters seventeen and eighteen that MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT will be a great economic power in the last days. When MYSTERY BABYLON is destroyed, the merchants of the earth are going to weep and mourn "...for no man buyeth their merchandise any more."

Revelation chapter eighteen verses twelve and thirteen contain a list of items that will be sold by merchants within the Babylonian economic system. Among the items of merchandise are the "slaves". The word "slaves" is translated from the Greek word "soma". This is the only place where it is translated into the English word "slaves".

According to "Strong's Concordance", the Greek word "soma" is used in the New Testament over one hundred twenty-five times, but it is translated as the English words "body" or "bodies". Why would a word that is translated as body or bodies be translated only once as slaves?

Perhaps, when the translators of the KJV encountered the word Greek "soma" in the context of being "merchandise" the only way they could imagine "bodies" being sold were as slaves. However, consider this:


U.S. firm makes millions selling dead body parts - RT

A year-long investigation by the Reuters news agency has uncovered an American business selling organs, and other body parts donated to science, often without the knowledge of relatives. Under US law it is perfectly legal.

https://www.rt.com/business/408032-r...ad-body-parts/

[Sherree]

Very interesting, Pastor. Thanks. So, do you believe Mystery Babylon is the US?

[Pastor Guest]

Very interesting, Pastor. Thanks. So, do you believe Mystery Babylon is the US?

Sorry about taking so long to respond! It's been a busy few days.

First, I have learned over the years, that when it comes to prophecy, it's best not to paint yourself into a corner. We always need to look at what is happening in the light of God's Word, realizing that things in this world change. What might seem like a sound assumption today about the fulfillment of prophetic scripture, might be seen as error in a few years.

Having said that, yes, I do believe, based on the way things appear today, that the United States, and in particular New York City, could possibly be MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT. Again, this opinion is based on how things appear today. The whole world scene could change tomorrow. Kingdoms come and kingdoms go.

Here are some of the reasons why I believe New York City could be the Great Whore.

First, the description of MYSTERY BABYLON reveals her great power over the world is economic. We also know she uses this power to corrupt the nations and their leaders.

New York City is the seat of the world's markets and banking system. Practically all trade between nations is, one way or another, channeled through or controlled by institutions that are either headquartered or have branch offices in New York City.

The de facto world government, the United Nations is located in New York City. Money (mostly from the United States) is disbursed throughout the world by various agencies of the U.N.. Countries must agree to U.N. policies and procedures (many of which are evil) in order to receive this money.

There is the presence of the “entertainment” industry, including music, Broadway, movies, etc., in NYC. The United States corrupts souls and minds throughout the world with the filth that is produced and exported by the ungodly.

We know, just before she is destroyed, she will be hated. Not too many nations love, or even like, the US. They love our money, but hate the US.

Some equate MYSTERY BABYLON with the Vatican because she “...was arrayed in purple and scarlett colour...”. This is an assumption based on the fact that high ranking Roman Catholic clergy, like Cardinals and the Pope, sometimes wear scarlet clothing. However, scarlett and purple clothing is most often associated with rulers and the rich in the Bible. There is really nothing in the scriptures that indicates MYSTERY BABYLON will have religious power.

Some also point to the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has been a great persecutor of true believers throughout the centuries as another reason that the RCC is MYSTERY BABYLON.

This is why we need to watch events as they unfold in the light of God's Word. Things change. Seventy-five years ago who would have thought our government would ban prayer and Bible reading from our schools? It would have been unthinkable that a country founded on religious liberty would require churches to register with the IRS. Would a God-fearing nation burn a church filled with people, including little children and let the perpetrators go unpunished? Today the US provides refuge for Muslim refugees while leaving multitudes of Christians to the mercy of Isis. We freely trade with barbaric Muslim governments which oppress Christians and at the same time punish countries which adhere to Christian principles.

If things continue in the direction they are going, I believe one day soon, Christian blood will flow in the streets of America.

Consider too, if the Vatican were to be completely destroyed, it would not cause a major disruption in world commerce like we read about in Revelation chapter 18. However, if NYC were to be destroyed the whole world would be devastated economically. The United States is the biggest consumer of goods in the world. Much of what we consume, whether raw materials or finished products, is purchased from other countries.

This is just a side note, one of the nicknames of NYC is, “Babylon on the Hudson”. There is also a town on Long Island named Babylon ( http://www.townofbabylon.com/ ).

[Sherree]

First, I have learned over the years, that when it comes to prophecy, it's best not to paint yourself into a corner. We always need to look at what is happening in the light of God's Word, realizing that things in this world change. What might seem like a sound assumption today about the fulfillment of prophetic scripture, might be seen as error in a few years.

Thanks for your response, Pastor! We've been very busy, too, so I haven't been here much over the last few days.

We have learned that lesson ourselves. We've thought so many times over the years that we had this prophecy thing down to an exact science, LOL, and later find out that we were way off base. That's why we also watch what's happening around the world, and hold it up to God's Word, daily. I think you have made a very strong case for the US being Babylon. We also, at this time, believe that to be so. We are still watching, though.

[danielboon]

"Slaves" or "Bodies"?

We know from Revelation chapters seventeen and eighteen that MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT will be a great economic power in the last days. When MYSTERY BABYLON is destroyed, the merchants of the earth are going to weep and mourn "...for no man buyeth their merchandise any more."

Revelation chapter eighteen verses twelve and thirteen contain a list of items that will be sold by merchants within the Babylonian economic system. Among the items of merchandise are the "slaves". The word "slaves" is translated from the Greek word "soma". This is the only place where it is translated into the English word "slaves".

According to "Strong's Concordance", the Greek word "soma" is used in the New Testament over one hundred twenty-five times, but it is translated as the English words "body" or "bodies". Why would a word that is translated as body or bodies be translated only once as slaves?

Perhaps, when the translators of the KJV encountered the word Greek "soma" in the context of being "merchandise" the only way they could imagine "bodies" being sold were as slaves. However, consider this:


U.S. firm makes millions selling dead body parts - RT



https://www.rt.com/business/408032-r...ad-body-parts/

Yes and it also says in verse 13 (The souls of men) now that is crazy...

[Nicho1]

There have been quite a few posts on the America/Mystery Babylon concept. I don't think I've ever posted to date. Today must be the day!

In looking at Scripture, in my interpretation, America is not “Mystery Babylon.” Let me explain. This may be a bit lengthy, but I will try to reduce as much as possible. Each person will need to study the Scripture for himself and ask the Holy Spirit for understanding and guidance.

We must first begin by recognizing that it has been satan’s goal to destroy God’s plan. This was true from the very beginning and remains true today and will continue until he is cast into the Lake of Fire.

Satan’s “religious system” began in Shinar (Babylon) with Nimrod. That system was counterfeit to God’s system. The actions of satan have always been counterfeit to God’s actions. As an example, in Revelation, satan creates a counterfeit Trinity…himself (as God), the antichrist (as Jesus), the false prophet (as the Holy Spirit).

Scripture uses the word “mystery” many times. I will not go into that at this moment other than to draw attention to these mysteries:
The mystery of the Kingdom
The five mysteries of the Church
The mystery of Israel’s hardening
The mystery of the Seven Climactic judgments
The defeat of the two satanic mysteries

It is this last one that deals with Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17. In verses 1-2, John is going to be given a NEW revelation beyond what was given in Chapters 1-16. Chapter 17 deals with the first half of the tribulation and Chapter 18 with the second half. Chapters 19-22 discuss the Second Coming, the Kingdom and the Eternal Order.

17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
² With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

The word “harlot” means prostitute; one who takes something that has a proper use and use it in an improper way. This harlot does that with religion. James 1:27 tells what true religion is…becoming a servant to those in need. When religion is prostituted, instead of a servant, it takes on a rule of lordship. The harlot sits upon “many waters.” Rev 17:15 defines many waters:

¹⁵ And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

This definition alone tells us that the harlot cannot be one nation or even many nations.

Rev 17:3-6 tells us that the woman rules with the support of civil government. In the first half of the Tribulation, the world is ruled by 10 kings over 10 nations. These kings will be supporters of a one-world religious system. She has names full of blasphemy, showing that she is in opposition to the true God and that this is a false religious system; the beast has 7 heads and 10 horns, describing the governmental system of the first half of the Tribulation.

⁴ And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
She is guilty of spiritual fornication. She is the counterfeit bride of Messiah.

⁵ And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

He says she is the Mother of Harlots. We’re going back to the beginning now. Where did this original idolatry begin? Shinar! (Babylon)

⁶ And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

In the first half of the Tribulation, this false religious system will persecute the believers in Messiah. They are the 5^th seal saints of Rev 6:9-11.

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So, the mystery is not Babylon itself nor that Babylon was the originator and center of idolatry. We know this from the Old Testament. The mystery is that Babylon will develop into a one-world unified religion and will rule the world religiously for the first half of the Tribulation, based in Babylon, supported by the governments and will persecute those who do not submit to its religious authority. This was not revealed in the Old Testament; therefore, it is termed a mystery here.

In the middle of the Tribulation, the world religion of the first half of the Tribulation will be destroyed by the antichrist.

¹⁶ And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
¹⁷ For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Check the Scriptures for yourself, carefully reading what we are told. In so doing, it is my conclusion that America is NOT Mystery Babylon.

[Samuel Adams]

You may be slightly mistaken.....

Nimrod's offer to provide ahead of and instead of Father has indeed been passed around among civil governments since his physical departure.
Egypt had it for a while.....Rome had it......England......and now, the D.C.-based "US" does indeed hold the reigns, though not without the help and blessing of the Vatican.

The Babylonian system has indeed gone worldwide, with few and rapidly dwindling exceptions, so it is easy enough to agree that it is not a permanent place so much as a Satanic system of economic exploitation and domination, based on his genius scheme of life-sucking usury......but her seat of power is Stateside, at the moment....which does give pause when considering the phrase "sits on many waters".

[jimmythebee]

good thread---thought provoking stuff

[Nicho1]

.but her seat of power is Stateside, at the moment....which does give pause when considering the phrase "sits on many waters".

Scripture is its own best commentary. Revelation 17:5
¹⁵ And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

[CaryC]

Food for thought:

During the time of Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel we find this:

Dan 2:2 Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans,

These guys are comparable to:

Exo 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

These guys and their "arts" are not so much like Harry Potter, but are religious figures, sort of like what we see with VooDoo today. Which is what makes the Bohemian Grove thing so interesting IMHO.

I mention this because each king and kingdom had their own, as a support structure to their kingdom. For a visual construct remember the two sides in "Lord of the Rings". When one king or kingdom overthrew, or conquered another, they would kill off the religious magicians etc... of the kingdom that lost, so they wouldn't put like curses, and spells etc. on the new king. Even as they would kill off anyone in the old kingdom having a claim to the throne. Note the massacre at Bethlehem. Which has much further implications like in Terminator.

So when the Babylonian kingdom was overthrown by Darius all the magicians that could, fled. Leaving only Daniel to meet the new king. With the book of Isaiah with Cyrus', Darius's king's name in it, written some 150 years earlier, things went rather smoothly for them. That's more historical, than Biblical.

Anyway those magicians fled, with their religious system. Where did they flee to? Pergamum. Known in Rev. as the seat of Satan. Pergamum was a Greek city, then a Roman city with the worship of those Greco-Roman gods. (Same gods different names) Not to mention a great Temple to the Egyptian god Isis.

Part of the main, and most famous is the Pergamum Altar. Which was dedicated to Zeus and his daughter Athena. With a depiction of a battle between the gods in heaven, and the giants on earth. You can visit this human stained altar today in the Museum of Pergamum in Berlin, Germany. Or google it.

The point is, the religious system of Babylon moved to Pergamum. You would think that as the religious system became accepted in first Greece, and then in Rome those ......priests would move to the capital Athens and Rome of the empire. Which has quite a few structures to their gods.

I would note that the Roman political system was a republic. Even as ours is. Eventually that system would be come corrupt and ruled by Caesar, and worshipped as a god, and is the reason Christians were killed, as unbelievers in that system. You will note that the religious system, and the political system became combined in a single person.

Did that march continue westward to the US? I don't know. Is Mystery Babylon the US I don't know. Could be. I think a case could also be made that this country came into being to keep the westward expansion in check, and contained in Europe, and more specifically Rome. Which is as of yet an unknown.

It is obvious from scripture, which has been 100% correct in it's passed fulfilled prophecies, so I would think has a track record for being right, that the future AC kingdom will be at first a political system, (10 nations then -3=7 nations) maybe even a republic, which becomes combined with a religious system in one person-the AC, with his sitting in the Temple. And if you paid attention is also what happened in Babylon. Neb. was at first a king (political system) who wanted to be worshipped (religious system) when he made his statue of gold, and the 3 Israeli/Jewish men refused to bow and went into the furnace.

My personal POV if anyone cares, or matters is:

God hasn't proved Himself to be a dummy, in fact just the opposite. Therefore when He says to come out of her, meaning Mystery Babylon, we will know what He means. At present we don't know what Mystery Babylon is, much less what it means. I know for those who believe in a pre-trib rapture it doesn't matter because you believe you will be gone. For those who believe in a post-trib. rapture we will know, beyond any shadow of a doubt what it is, and does, and who controls it.

God will make it known to you, so you can come out of her.

Not being dogmatic, or doctrinal, just food for thought, or whatever.