Luke 3:7-17 Sermon

[Hpwillis]

We recently left a church that we had been attending for 12 years. It is a Reformed Churches Of America affiliated church. It is 'Seeker Friendly'. The sermons just weren't.....well, I just wasn't getting anything out of the messages. They were also beginning to associate with Bethel. There's probably a whole argument of whether or not we should have stayed and tried to turn things around, but we have moved on and found a really good church that preaches out of the Bible and not a book that the pastor just read. I say all of this to get to this point:
I happened to listen in on the sermon from last week. He preached from this passage and made it sound like we should be selling stuff to give have money to give to people and should feel a little guilty about having stuff. it's hard for me to explain. I guess it just wasn't coming across like I always thought it should. Maybe I'm wrong? I'd like to hear what others think this passage is about.

[somoprepper08]

Luke 3:7-17King James Version (KJV)⁷ Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
⁸ Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
⁹ And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
¹⁰ And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
¹¹ He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
¹² Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
¹³ And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
¹⁴ And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
¹⁵ And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
¹⁶ John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
¹⁷ Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
King James Version (KJV)

I'm just posting the referenced scriptures here. Will comment after I've read and pondered a bit.

[Hpwillis]

Thanks. I didn't have the ability to do that here at work. That is my preferred version, as well.

[CaryC]

We recently left a church that we had been attending for 12 years. It is a Reformed Churches Of America affiliated church. It is 'Seeker Friendly'. The sermons just weren't.....well, I just wasn't getting anything out of the messages. They were also beginning to associate with Bethel. There's probably a whole argument of whether or not we should have stayed and tried to turn things around, but we have moved on and found a really good church that preaches out of the Bible and not a book that the pastor just read. I say all of this to get to this point:
I happened to listen in on the sermon from last week. He preached from this passage and made it sound like we should be selling stuff to give have money to give to people and should feel a little guilty about having stuff. it's hard for me to explain. I guess it just wasn't coming across like I always thought it should. Maybe I'm wrong? I'd like to hear what others think this passage is about.

Hey Hp,

Welcome to the board. Just make a mental note it gets frisky down here. LOL

I see nothing wrong with what you did, it's been going on for several hundred years. The Pilgrims thought the "Church" (probably "of England) was too corrupt so they left. The Puritans on the other hand sought to change it from the inside. Anyway to address your question, of which I am sure you will get plenty to ponder as replies come in.

For those without a Bible handy:

Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luk 3:10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
Luk 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Luk 3:12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
Luk 3:13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
Luk 3:15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

For me personally I think that particular view point isn't correct. I think the idea trying to be conveyed by John the Baptist is one of giving. Not making oneself poor to do that. Sort of in the line of helping the poor, and that IS in line with NT theology.

I would note a couple of things:

The Christians in Jerusalem did sell their stuff, and became sort of a commune. However, no where in scripture are we instructed to do so, or follow suit.

And the council in Jerusalem didn't mention living in a commune style either.

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Paul warned the Corinthians about doing just that:

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
2Co 8:10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
2Co 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

It is also noted in James that they had rich people in their midst:

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

IMHO the object lesson is to not respect, and give a more prominent position to the wealthy, than the poor. And I might add that still goes on. Not that there is anything wrong with being rich, and having possessions, but 1) how they are treated, and 2) how the wealthy treat their possessions, and the position it holds in our/their hearts. Note the rich young ruler. Note the Good Samaritan.

I think as a general rule Christians want to help the poor, even if it hurts somewhat. And I think that is what John was speaking to, helping people, and caring for them more than possessions. However, to not give so much you yourself stand in need, which God has given you, to support yourself. You will note that in Luke 3: 11 the guy had 2 coats, and was not asked to give up both. It appears the one needing a coat stood in need of a coat, maybe winter, or homeless, or a beggar, some one that was poor, and not just some guy who was warm blooded didn't usually wear a coat, and was just strolling along the way.

Also you will notice in Luke 3, with the 2 coats, the example in II Cor. sending money to Jerusalem, wasn't a continual thing, it was to meet a need at the moment.

I may get blasted for that, but that is how I see it. Help the poor, even if it hurts somewhat. We have, we do, on an "as needed" basis. However, we don't go through organizations anymore. We do give to Salvation Army extra clothes, and money at Christmas, but other than that it's an individual thing.

Just saying that us.

[CaryC]

I might add:

IMHO because there is a tender heartiness in Christians to help the poor, they are played, scammed, and shamed into it, all the time.

By organizations like Red Cross to just name one. And the other is Religious organizations like denominations and ministries associated with them. And it is sad to say but local preachers/pastors are among the worst at it.

Not to mention televangelist, and traveling crusades like Benny Hinn.

Be a good steward of what God has given you.

[Hpwillis]

Thanks for the reply. I was on here a few years ago, but had to re-register again. I think what bothered me about his sermon was that it nearly seemed like he was saying that that was THE reason why Jesus came in the first place. Maybe, hopefully I heard him wrong. Well, I need to stop listening in on those sermons and listen to the much, much better ones at our current church!