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Thread: Christians are Not Under the Law of Moses

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by grampster View Post
    "...do you think Jesus came to annul the law and the prophets?" I think over the time I've been here that question has come up and been answered several times. I find it curious you use the word "annul". Why would you use that word?
    annul;


    • declare invalid, declare null and void, nullify, invalidate, void, disallow;
      The Law and Prophets were not declared annulled at all. Jesus Himself did not say He annulled them. Jesus Himself also said He didn't abolish them either. Abolish has a different meaning than annul. The word annul does not appear as far as I know, only the word abolish. Jesus himself said that He fulfilled the law and the prophets. Matthew 5:17-18. Fulfilling something does not mean something is abolished or annuled, it means it is completed. I've used the building of a table as an example of this in the past. To build a table you have a plan; a blueprint. When the table is built, the plan is completed. The blueprint still exists and doesn't change, but the result of it now stands in it's place. However, one must have faith and believe that Jesus did as He said He was to do, complete the plan. He did fulfill it, as He hung on the cross, He said "It is finished". The plan is complete. John 19:30. I suppose if one doesn't believe Jesus is Lord and savior, messiah, then I suppose to argue further would be futile.

      By the same token if one does believe Jesus is Lord and Savior, Messiah, then why would one wish to tangle oneself up in trying to follow the complexities of the Law and Prophets perfectly which we know is not possible, beyond that which Jesus Himself said that Loving God with your whole heart, mind etc and loving your neighbor as yourself completed the Law and Prophets. (found in Matthew, Luke, and Mark) As for those two commands, if you ponder them enough, you will find they cover a lot of ground, most of which we still have difficulty negotiating even as people of Faith.
    I'd just lilke to offer a bit of the logical conclusion to your analogy. Because it is one used by amillenial dominionist sects to conclude that ALL prophecy and scripture is completed in Jesus. To take that to its logical end, if the blue print is complete, meanig the table is built, done, then there is no thing left to do. Therefore, all is complete by 70 ad. The eternal kingdom is here. Which means the resurrection is done, judgement is done, Revelation is past tense. All that is left is for the church is to take the dominion inheritance given to them in Jesus. So, if you think the blue print and table is complete, then you have a table with only three legs. Unless, like the domionists, you can accept that it's now just a matter of clean up from Jesus' victory. How quickly the world reflects the true kingdom is only a matter of continuing victory of evangelism in which the church (the true church of course) continues to gain prominence and dominion both spiritually and governmentally. Please think on it a while and see if that is not the only logical endgame to that scenario.Regardless of what you see or don't see in the law, please consider the ramifications of what this completed blueprint analogy must conclude. If combined with Calvinism, It is a dangerous, mean spirited and bloody doctrine. Standing alone, it is an anticlimactic bout of wishful thinking in which the hoped for kingdom is a utopian continuation of the present status quo. So if you accept your analogy, please, at minimum, reject Calvinism outright and completely. And at minimum, ask yourself if this present status is the eternal table you wish to dine at forevermore. But then, if this table isn't your idea of great furniture, either the original blueprint hasn't been followed, or it's back to the drawing board for G-d.
    Last edited by Wiskey Reb; 12-25-2017 at 08:46 PM.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by grampster View Post
    • The Law and Prophets were not declared annulled at all.
    Exactly, gramster. Since the commands and instructions were not annulled, they are still in effect and are profitable for instruction and training in righteousness. Even profitable for doctrine

    I agree with Wiskey's last post, too. God's Law is also prophetic, and is yet to be fulfilled. And, until ALL are following and keeping its righteous instructions, it will be in effect. Since God's Word will not return to Him void, not accomplishing that for which He sent it, it will remain in effect until all are keeping it. When He says, for example, thou shalt not murder, the prophetic aspect of His Word implies that someday, there will be no murders! And yet, we still see murders being done. This means to me that it is not fulfilled, yet. But I trust will be one day. Then there will be no need for the command because murder will be a thing of the past.

  3. #113
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    Just for giggles, did a search for "biblical law is blueprint". First hit....Gary North...Christian reconstructionism.
    But what weapons can you use to dispossess someone who will not accept anything except Holy Scripture interpreted according to his own rules?...Where Lutheranism reigns, learning dies. They seek only two things: good pay and a wife. The gospel offers them the rest — that is, the power of living as they please.

    I understand now how Arius and Tertullian and Wickliff were driven into schism by malicious clergy and wicked monks.

    (Erasmus regarding Luther and the church, 1527, 1529)

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