Christians are Not Under the Law of Moses

[Forty9er]

Amen! Me, too!

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My 2 cents on the topic of this thread (again)
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The Law given through Moses is The Law of God that Moses received in letters humans could understand. As the late and beloved Bible teacher would say, God put the cookies on the lower shelf where the kiddies could reach them with this form of His Law. And even at that, having been given that most simplified possible version of The Law of God, it was impossible for fallen man to keep it.

The Law of God can never be changed or done away with in this realm or the eternal. The Law of God is always there, the fabric of our existence, and I would say, not at all jokingly, that the Law of God includes the laws of physics that the physical creation (even man!) perfectly obeys.

In Jesus' earthly ministry, He taught that The Law of God is more than what is written. It is a matter of the heart. We must love. First, most, and best, we love God; also, we love one another as fully as we ourselves long to be loved.

The Ten Commandments and other rules given to God's people in the desert were pale shadows compared to what The Law of God requires of us, but they show us how it looks to love God and others: Put God first, reverence His Name, worship no other, make no image, receive His rest; and when it comes to your fellow human, do not steal, lie, covet, take liberties with their spouse, or kill them.

It is only a starting point, however. Jesus would fulfill it (1) in His perfect example (not even the shadow of sin upon Him until He took ours upon Himself), (2) the one and only perfect and satisfactory sacrifice, and (3) the absolute and complete victory over death and the grave that He attained for us all.

With His perfect fulfillment of all things, the letter of the law is no longer ruling God's people, yet the truth and principles of The Law of God remain forever. Not one stroke of the seemingly least significant letter within The Law of God shall ever be removed. The penalty has been paid, forever, and we receive our pardon for transgression of The Law of God, living and eternal, through Christ alone.

The Law of God is now written on the hearts of His people, as promised through the prophet Jeremiah, beginning at the moment we receive the Holy Spirit as our Teacher and Guide. The more we commune with God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the more we receive of Him and His Love within us. As His Love -- as He -- increasingly reigns in our hearts and minds, we are more and more able to obey The Law of God in thought, word, and deed.

Jesus observed The Law of God more perfectly than any other. It was not a big challenge for Him to follow the written version as He was born without sin and, as God, He embodied it perfectly. Though He never transgressed, He observed the Mosaic traditions because, at that time, God's people were still under the written version of The Law of God and would be until Christ Jesus entirely and perfectly fulfilled it, as He said He would do.

We are no longer under the written Law as given to Moses. We are so very far beyond that now. He dwells within us, making His will known. His work is now forever complete. We rest in Him always and fully.

I don't understand what the attraction is or what the difference could be, really, that draws people to adhere to the form of The Law of God given through Moses. What we have under grace is so much more, better, and totally natural to the Christian than a written code. And it fulfills The Law of God perfectly, as Christ fulfilled all, we are found fully in Him, and we are filled with His Holy Spirit as our Comforter, Teacher, and Guide. Immanuel.

Which brings to mind a song . . .

Really well said, LittleFish! Thanks!

Here is a question for you. We don't know that there was any law from God in written form before Moses. Why do you think that was? I don't have an exact answer but I thought you might have some insight.

[LittleFish]

Here is a question for you. We don't know that there was any law from God in written form before Moses. Why do you think that was? I don't have an exact answer but I thought you might have some insight.

Thanks, Forty9er. I don’t have a pat answer, either, but will offer some thoughts on it. I look forward to learning your insights on it, too, in response .

We know that the creation was “very good” when God viewed all of His work at the end of the sixth day. Man was made in the image of God, and received life from the very breath of God. I believe from this that Adam was probably perfect in all of his ways: physically, emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually.

That means, to me, that The Law of God was written on Adam’s heart, and on Eve’s. The express command to not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge does not contradict this. Our children know most of what we expect of their general behavior by a certain age – do not lie, do not steal, respect others’ things, be kind, do not yell or run in the house – yet we may at a certain time add something like, “do not eat those cookies – they’re for the bake sale.”

After the fall, they still had heart-memory of God's Law as did the generations that followed. Paul speaks of gentiles who do the work of the Law "instinctively," without benefit of the Law, as showing, "the work of the Law written in their hearts." The fact that (at least) Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and Joseph were able to please and serve God long before the time of Moses proves a written law is not needed for man to be in relationship with God and do His will.

The other part of the question, of course, is why did God ‘document’ the law in the time of Moses?

I think it was to build anticipation for Messiah, showing people their deep need for Him, preparing their hearts. The law, IMHO, is all about Messiah.

As you know, God told Abraham that his descendants would be slaves in a foreign land for 400 years, and then He would bring them out of that land and back to the land He promised. I think this promised time was also meant to become the pivotal time when God would begin to build them into the nation through which the Light of the World would come. It was planned to be that time from the beginning, something like the start of a countdown (which He would further formalize/detail in Daniel 9:24-27).

When God laid before them right and wrong in the Ten Commandments and supplementary laws, He showed them the standard of His righteousness. Over the centuries to follow, they should have learned that it is impossible to meet God’s standard on our own. This should have created great anguish within them. They should have been longing for Messiah to arrive to deliver them from this awful inborn want-to to sin that made it impossible for them to please God and know true fellowship with Him.

Alas, they didn't get it. They thought it was all about them.They also thought they were handling sin well enough with all the tomes of additional laws and rules their religious leaders had written to 'help' them keep the heart and soul of The Law of God given through Moses. Sin that remained was covered with sacrifices individually and, once a year, for the nation as a whole. That's what they thought pleasing God was all about, the best they could hope to ever find in Him.

People so often focus on what they can reckon with the physical senses, the here and now, time and space. They had no idea what awaited them, not in their wildest dreams.

And although we blessedly do not remain in unbelief, the same is undoubtedly true for us when we consider the times to come and the ever-after that is ours in Christ alone, forever.

Blessings to you, Brother!

[dmatic]

Sorry about the DP (???????)

No need to apologize for the double post, Off-Grid. Great post that should be read twice! Nothing happens in God's world by mistake you know!

forty9er, thanks for starting this, though your assertion with the title....? Before I get into the verses you want me to respond to, may I ask how you define "under the Law"? Thanks

[dmatic]

forty9er, you wrote: "t is very simple. The law of liberty is the law of Christ:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. "

Since it is not a new command to love one another, the new part looks to be the addition of "as I have loved you", correct? How would you define that kind of love as compared to the "old" command to love others as you love yourself? Thanks

[dmatic]

1Cor 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Cor 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Not sure what your "interpretation" is, forty9er, and maybe I should wait for your definition of the phrase: "Under the law", and, I am running out of time this morning....but, ....Paul mentions three groups of people here: Jews, those under the law, and those outside the law. Apparently, he did not consider himself to be in any of these three groups? But, he "became" as one of their members to "win them". To the Jews he became AS a Jew, in order to win them. To those under the law, he became as one under the law, but what does that mean? (Later) Is Paul saying that the Jews are not under the law? If so, your understanding may yet need to be enlightened in order to make an assertion as bold as the one you entitled this thread with?

[Forty9er]

Thanks, Forty9er. I don’t have a pat answer, either, but will offer some thoughts on it. I look forward to learning your insights on it, too, in response .

We know that the creation was “very good” when God viewed all of His work at the end of the sixth day. Man was made in the image of God, and received life from the very breath of God. I believe from this that Adam was probably perfect in all of his ways: physically, emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually.

That means, to me, that The Law of God was written on Adam’s heart, and on Eve’s. The express command to not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge does not contradict this. Our children know most of what we expect of their general behavior by a certain age – do not lie, do not steal, respect others’ things, be kind, do not yell or run in the house – yet we may at a certain time add something like, “do not eat those cookies – they’re for the bake sale.”

After the fall, they still had heart-memory of God's Law as did the generations that followed. Paul speaks of gentiles who do the work of the Law "instinctively," without benefit of the Law, as showing, "the work of the Law written in their hearts." The fact that (at least) Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and Joseph were able to please and serve God long before the time of Moses proves a written law is not needed for man to be in relationship with God and do His will.

Some good thoughts, LittleFish. You mentioned the passage from Romans about the work of the law written in their hearts and I think another passage from Romans applies as well. We know that before the flood the thoughts of man's heart was only evil, except for Noah and his family. So I think the following verses would apply to that time:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

They had knowledge of God and had the work of the law written on their hearts but they rejected it and as a result their hearts were darkened.

The other part of the question, of course, is why did God ‘document’ the law in the time of Moses?

I think it was to build anticipation for Messiah, showing people their deep need for Him, preparing their hearts. The law, IMHO, is all about Messiah.

I think you are exactly right. The Law of Moses was centered around the sacrificial system and all of the sacrifices and feasts pointed to Christ and His work of salvation. And the all of the moral requirements and even the little details from the Law demonstrated that we can't achieve righteousness from the Law and need to turn to Christ by faith.

Thanks for your good comments!

[Davy Crockett]

Littlefish, your comments are something I can understand and relate to.
Thank you

[Forty9er]

forty9er, you wrote: "t is very simple. The law of liberty is the law of Christ:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. "

Since it is not a new command to love one another, the new part looks to be the addition of "as I have loved you", correct? How would you define that kind of love as compared to the "old" command to love others as you love yourself? Thanks

I think the difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is based on man and the other is based on God. In some ways man is capable of loving someone else as he loves himself but no man, in himself, is capable of loving someone else as God loves. That is why the Law is only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very image.

[LittleFish]

Littlefish, your comments are something I can understand and relate to.
Thank you

It is my greatest pleasure to expound upon the goodness of God, His character and mercy, His Word and His ways. Thank you, Davy, for your encouragement. God bless.

[LittleFish]

Some good thoughts, LittleFish. You mentioned the passage from Romans about the work of the law written in their hearts and I think another passage from Romans applies as well. We know that before the flood the thoughts of man's heart was only evil, except for Noah and his family. So I think the following verses would apply to that time:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

They had knowledge of God and had the work of the law written on their hearts but they rejected it and as a result their hearts were darkened.honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

True. I had a couple paragraphs (cut them for brevity) on Noah coming from a line of faith (Enoch, Methuselah, etc.) while the others in that day had obviously rejected God and His Law going back generations. The result is exactly what Paul describes in this passage.

I think you are exactly right. The Law of Moses was centered around the sacrificial system and all of the sacrifices and feasts pointed to Christ and His work of salvation. And the all of the moral requirements and even the little details from the Law demonstrated that we can't achieve righteousness from the Law and need to turn to Christ by faith.

Yes. The Law of Moses was presented to point to Christ and His Great Salvation, and He would fulfill that Law perfectly, negating the future need for it. God's Law is Love. The deeper we go in His love, all the laws and commandments are better met.