What have I mischaracterized? You are teaching exactly what I have attributed to you.Originally Posted by Off-Grid Organics
Esquire
What have I mischaracterized? You are teaching exactly what I have attributed to you.
Congressman
OK, glad to hear you agree with those verses about patterning our walk after His. Gotta go...shabbat shalom!
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
Senator
I believe that one of the problems with their understanding is that they try and live the "letter of the law" unto righteousness, and have no concept of living the "spirit of the law" as found in the New Covenant. Their understanding is darkened. That's why they rely so heavily on supporting their beliefs from the OT.
Senator
Thanks for asking. I believe the Law shows us all our sin. It stops all our mouths. In violating it we have become unrighteous, and yet, blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. So, we seek God's Kingdom and His righteousness. Righteousness as He defines it. His Law defines it. A circumcised heart. It's goal is love, from a pure heart. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
We need cleansing from sin, from transgressing the law of God. And then, after being cleansed we need to not sin anymore. How do we get that cleansing? By, in faith, applying the blood from the perfect Passover Lamb, to the lintels and doorpost of our hearts. Our minds need cleansing, too. "How can a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word". Ps 119:9 v. 10: "With my whole heart have I sought thee; O let me not wander from thy commandments."
Just sayin'
Esquire
Christ came to do the will of the Father:
And God's will for Christians is live by faith, not by the Law:John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
These verses say that we are to walk "in him", rooted and built up in Christ and established in what? The Law? NO! Established in the FAITH. And as I have pointed out time and time again, the Law is not of faith. And the verses also say that we are to walk in Christ just as we received Christ. How did you receive Christ, by the Law or by faith?Col 2:6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him,
Col 2:7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
Senator
OK since Galatians is a bit smaller make it 5 years then. LOL
Just some thoughts here:
I would accuse the Law-Keepers of not only wanting us to keep the 10 Commandments but also the other 600+ laws, even as the Pharisee's did in their day. O BTW the Pharisee's of Jesus' day didn't disappear, into obscurity. The Pharisee's of yesteryear, are the Rabbinic Judaism of our day. For a history of that transformation you can see this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbinic_Judaism
The Law-Keepers either can't or won't name those 600+ laws, but they continually ask us (Non Law-Keepers) which ones are Ok to break. In an effort to shame us.
I think the 10 are in a class by themselves. They are carved into the Supreme Court Building, most of, at least, western civilization, bases their laws of the land on those 10 (maybe not so much the first 2 anymore). And it was noted earlier that God the Father used His finger to etch those in stone.
Then after those 10 were etched in stone, and placed in the Ark of the Covenant, the other 600+ laws were given to, please note this very specifically, given to the Nation of Israel, as their laws of the land. Those laws DID NOT include a penial system as we have today. You commit murder, you get so many years in jail, etc.... They did have a system where the Priests, and Levites acted as judges, etc....basing their judgments on those 600+ laws, for the nation.
So lets look at the whole concept: the 10 which were given, and then other laws given to the Nation of Israel for enforcement, and no other nation or belief system. Let me just pick one>
This one should work, and it seems appropriate:
It is one of the 10, written by the finger of God.Exo_20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Let me try to list at least some of the 600+ laws given to the Nation of Israel pertaining to Shabbat, of which OGO, and dmatic have already broken (no writing allowed)
- business transactions;
- driving or riding in cars or other vehicles;
- shopping;
- using the telephone;
- turning on or off anything which uses electricity, including lights, radios, television, computer, air-conditioners and alarm clocks;
- cooking, baking or kindling a fire;
- gardening and grass-mowing;
- doing laundry
- You can go here to see some explanations, like you can't carry anything in your pockets over 6 feet.
- http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...abbat-Laws.htm
- And you can go here if you want to see the 39 categories prohibited on Shabbat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activi...ted_on_Shabbat
Then in Exodus 31 the Lord in His direction to the Children of Israel goes into more detail:
And if you will notice there is no remedy if you made a mistake, like offering 2 turtle doves, or something.Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
To enforce the idea that no work was to be done by those under the OLD covenant, between God and Israel, we find this:
Let's just make some notes:Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
Num 15:37 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:
Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
Num 15:40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
Num 15:41 I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.
Jos 6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.
Jos 6:3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.
Jos 6:4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.And I might add that according to Matthew 5 where it is stated that not only living up to the letter of the law but also including the desire of the letter of the law makes one guilty. If you even wanted to pick up a stick, or a burning desire to reply, write out a response in a thread, on the Sabbath you were guilty of death.2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
For Christians we have our Sabbath rest is Christ, in which we do no servile work. Not only do we not do any servile work, neither do we want to. Phil 2:13
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Wise Men Still Seek Him
Senator
How about this, which ones do you suggest we keep?
Be advised, this is a trick question. Think it over carefully.
¤ Loose Change
I have set the LORD always before me: because He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. ~ Psalm 16:8
Senator
BTW, you're breaking the Sabbath Law by posting today. Lol. Oops.
Not like you keep it anyway but just an FYI.
¤ Loose Change
I have set the LORD always before me: because He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. ~ Psalm 16:8
Senator
It's far beyond that though, they are helplessly blinded by satan. Even when presented with the fact that they can't keep any of God's Law, they still can't grasp it. It's painful to watch.
¤ Loose Change
I have set the LORD always before me: because He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. ~ Psalm 16:8
Congressman
Oh really? LOL! The ignorance here is absolutely overwhelming...but I will let you explain your false accusation using the Word, M-kay?
"The one who says he stays in Him is indebted to walk, even as He walked." 1Jn 2:6
Without Torah, His walk is impossible - it's Rome's walk without Torah.
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