Keeping His Commandments

[dmatic]

That's ok, dmatic. It's alright if you want to blame me in all of this. Happens all the time. People get mad and leave, or people get banned, and it's always my fault. So, go ahead. I can take the heat. KingsX, poor thing, bless her heart. All she needed was for someone to tell her that we all loved her. That would have done it, I'm sure.

Your sarcasm aside, I was not "blaming you", for KingsX' deception, Sherree. I was simply, I thought, trying to point out the Biblical method of "loving someone who is deceived". Not by "telling" her, but by showing her. I was under the impression that you said you were hoping that we could establish a "Christian" forum, where people could come and honestly express what is on their minds and not be called names or be disrespected in other ways. Kind of like a "safe place".

Recently, I read a statement that seemed correct. When a man is wrong but won't admit it, he always becomes angry.

There seems to be a lot of anger displayed here, sometimes. That saddens me. That's all. If my presence on this forum is as unwelcome as it appears many times, based on reactions I read, maybe I should leave, too? That certainly is not my intent, to anger anyone. I am simply trying to seek truth. This is the only 'forum' that I visit to discuss things, and I have enjoyed the discussions, but maybe there is another place? If you know of any, please share. thanks

[dmatic]

There you go again, accusing other people of sinning because they believe what Scripture says, that Christians aren't under the Law. I don't accuse you of sinning because you believe in observing the Sabbath or eating only clean meat but you seem compelled to point the finger at others.

And that isn't what Christ said is it? Here is the verse:



I don't teach that Christ destroyed the Law but that He fulfilled it so that those who are in Christ are no longer under its authority.

And the following verse says: Whosoever therefore, breaks even the least commandment,(from the Law of Moses and the Prophets) and teaches others to break it, he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...

Again, "Christians" are not "under the law" if they keep it.

Do you think Christ was "under the authority" of the Law?

[Sherree]

Your sarcasm aside, I was not "blaming you", for KingsX' deception, Sherree. I was simply, I thought, trying to point out the Biblical method of "loving someone who is deceived". Not by "telling" her, but by showing her. I was under the impression that you said you were hoping that we could establish a "Christian" forum, where people could come and honestly express what is on their minds and not be called names or be disrespected in other ways. Kind of like a "safe place".

Recently, I read a statement that seemed correct. When a man is wrong but won't admit it, he always becomes angry.

There seems to be a lot of anger displayed here, sometimes. That saddens me. That's all. If my presence on this forum is as unwelcome as it appears many times, based on reactions I read, maybe I should leave, too? That certainly is not my intent, to anger anyone. I am simply trying to seek truth. This is the only 'forum' that I visit to discuss things, and I have enjoyed the discussions, but maybe there is another place? If you know of any, please share. thanks

dmatic, if I misunderstood your comments I am sorry. It seemed to me that you were accusing me of not showing meekness and love towards KingsX, and it seemed you were making excuses for her.

No, I do not want you to leave! I do wish we could all find common ground, but it doesn't seem likely at this point. Too many differing views.

No, I don't know of another forum where we can freely share as Christians and fellowship together the way we are allowed to do here. I've come to know several good Christian men and women here, and I hope to meet more in the future. That's one of the reasons we need to keep it clean and respectful towards each other.

I've already confessed to not doing my part as well as I should have. I'm trying to do better. At times, I still fall flat on my face by getting too emotional.

As far as KingsX goes, she is gone, and I don't really care to discuss her anymore.

[Forty9er]

Again, "Christians" are not "under the law" if they keep it.

What verse says that? Could you show me the verse? You can't because that isn't what Scripture teaches. And more than that, what you are claiming makes no sense. If a person thought they were required to keep the Law, and was able to keep it perfectly, then they would certainly be "under" its authority. The Greek word translated as "under" means to be in an "inferior position or condition", or in other words under its authority.

Gal 3:24 So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.

These verses make it clear that everyone who has put their faith in Christ is NO LONGER under a tutor, which is the Law. Does a person lose his salvation and get put back under the Law if he ever violates the Law? Absolutely NOT!

Do you think Christ was "under the authority" of the Law?

We have discussed this before. Christ was born under the Law so that he could fulfill it perfectly. But since that was completed at the cross, we are no longer under the Law.

[Off-Grid Organics]

Again, "Christians" are not "under the law" if they keep it.

Precisely. It's either that, or continue in the same sins that Messiah had to die for. To be 'under the law' is to have the penalty of breaking the law still in force; 'wages of sin is death'. Messiah bore that curse in our stead. Now we are empowered to walk as He walked, as He set the example. I see no example in His walk of living in sin---just the opposite.

[Forty9er]

I have not, by the way, argued for a return to a Levitical priesthood and the sacrificial system, which, in my belief, has been done away with, nor do I support any nation or tribe, Jew or Gentile, to return to it.

It is a sin to think that God's commandments have been done away with. It is transgressing Jesus' command not to think such

Are you ever going to answer my question about your clear hypocrisy in these statements? Are the commandments regarding the Levitical priesthood and the sacrificial system not "God's commandments" in the Law?

[somoprepper08]

And the following verse says: Whosoever therefore, breaks even the least commandment,(from the Law of Moses and the Prophets) and teaches others to break it, he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...

Again, "Christians" are not "under the law" if they keep it.

Do you think Christ was "under the authority" of the Law?

Jesus kept the law for us. He was our sacrifice for everything that we could not do. He was/is our mediator between us and God. Are you saying that He wasn't enough?
No man has been able to "keep the law" completely. None but the man, Jesus. The law was to show us that we needed a Savior.
"keeping the law", if it was possible, is a good thing. You can try to keep the law if you'd like but when Jesus died on the cross; defeated the devil and took the keys of death, hell and the grave from him; rose again on the 3rd day and then ascended to heaven to be with Father -- He fulfilled the law for you and for me and for 'whosoever' would accept His sacrifice. "It is finished"
Do whatever you think you need to do to satisfy whatever you think it is. But Jesus is the fulfillment of the law in the flesh.

[Off-Grid Organics]

The law was to show us that we needed a Savior.

Curious, where do you find that in Scripture? And as such, why do we see verses like this:

Isa 2:3 And many peoples shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of יהוה, to the House of the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, and let Him teach1 us His ways1, and let us walk in His paths1, for out of Tsiyon comes forth the Torah1, and the Word1 of יהוה from Yerushalayim.” Footnote: 1His ways, His paths, the teaching and the Word of יהוה are used synonymously.
Isa 2:4 And He shall judge between the nations, and shall reprove many peoples. And they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither teach battle any more.

Meanwhile...

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command1 delivered unto them. Footnote: 1The singular “command” often means “commands” – see 1 Tim. 6:14, Dt. 17:20, Ps. 19:8.
2Pe 2:22 For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

[Forty9er]

The law was to show us that we needed a Savior.

Curious, where do you find that in Scripture?

Have you ever read Galatians? No one who has read it and actually believes the words in it would ever ask that question. Or have you completely rejected Galatians as inspired by the Holy Spirit, as many of your fellow "Law keepers" have done because they couldn't twist it enough to make it fit their false doctrine?

And as such, why do we see verses like this:

Isa 2:3 And many peoples shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of יהוה, to the House of the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, and let Him teach1 us His ways1, and let us walk in His paths1, for out of Tsiyon comes forth the Torah1, and the Word1 of יהוה from Yerushalayim.” Footnote: 1His ways, His paths, the teaching and the Word of יהוה are used synonymously.
Isa 2:4 And He shall judge between the nations, and shall reprove many peoples. And they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither teach battle any more.

Exactly what I would expect from you. You take a prophecy of the future Millennial reign of Christ and try to apply it to today which is a completely different age when we are told we are not under the Law. Is Christ currently sitting on an earthly throne judging between the nations? Have all the people turned their swords into ploughshares? Because that is what this prophecy is also saying. When those conditions exist then the rest of the prophecy will be fulfilled, but it is not true today.

Meanwhile...

2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart command1 delivered unto them. Footnote: 1The singular “command” often means “commands” – see 1 Tim. 6:14, Dt. 17:20, Ps. 19:8.
2Pe 2:22 For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

Do you realize that the Greek word "nomos" which either means "a law" or specifically, "the Law of Moses", is not mentioned even once in either of Peters books? And the Greek word "anomos" which could mean "lawless" or "wicked" or "not subject to the Law of Moses", is only used once in his books in 2Peter 2:8 where it refers to the wicked men of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Those facts alone should indicate to a reasonable person that Peter is not teaching Christians that they are under the Law. So if Peter isn't talking about keeping the Law what is he frequently mentioning? The answer is faith:

1Pet 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Pet 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith-more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire-may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1Pet 1:9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

1Pet 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

1Pet 5:9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

2Pet 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, ​​​​​​​​​​​To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: ​​​

2Pet 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,

Peter says that that we are guarded through faith, not through the Law. He says that faith, not keeping the Law, is more precious than gold and will result in praise, glory, and honor. He says that the outcome of our faith, not the outcome of our keeping the Law, results in salvation. He tells us to be firm in our faith, not firm in our keeping of the Law.

So the reference to the "holy commandment", in 2Peter 2:21, that was delivered to them isn't a reference to the Law but is the same commandment that John is talking about:

1John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

[dmatic]

Basically, forty9eer, if we love one another we will be keeping the law.